Quick Spec Check / Ongoing Shuttle saga

Pezzoni · Post by **Pezzoni** » 2006-09-07 09:01pm

They should have been autodetected by the BIOS, and although I didn't check the specific values, the problem persisted even after I'd done a 'Load Failsafe BIOS Values'. This avenue might well be worth looking at in more detail though - thankyou for the suggestion

Pezzoni · Post by **Pezzoni** » 2006-09-27 07:48am

New RAM arrived today (different brand as well), and I'm having the same fucking problem. Can anyone think of anything else it might be, or is it just new shuttle time?

Memory voltages, timings and speeds are all set to automatic. The Windows memory tester does at least run through absolutely fine with both sticks of RAM in. I wiped the BIOS before I powered up with the new memory in.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2006-09-27 09:51am

Try booting the system into Memtest 86+.

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2006-09-27 11:09am

Some OCZ ram likes 2.1V which might have to be set manually.

I've had the same problems w/ my motherboard as well though, and after swapping the ram sticks around it wouldn't boot anymore, and definately not a RAM problem as I tried another cheap stick I borrowed and it still wouldn't work.

Pezzoni · Post by **Pezzoni** » 2006-09-27 11:45am

The new RAM is from crucial (but it does seem as if the OCZ stuff was dodgy, it just crashed the Windows memory tester, whereas this stuff lets it run through), and I've never had problems with the autodectection of it before.

I've tried putting the RAM in the other two slots, and trying (yet another) windows disk, all with the same results. I'm now trying the memory tester Beowulf reccomended (29%, no errors at current).

I'm thinking it must be a buggered memory controller on the motherboard? Before I RMA the shuttle, I might also see if Fedora installs, just for shits and giggles (could the Windows installer be that bad!?)

Anyone got any thoughts, or further ideas?

Thanks again.

Pezzoni · Post by **Pezzoni** » 2006-09-27 12:05pm

It completed a run of Memtest fine, with no errors (although there was a lot of slowdown at about 74%ish?). I'll try installing Fedora now, and if that doesn't work, it's getting RMA'd.

Pezzoni · Post by **Pezzoni** » 2006-09-27 01:01pm

Guess what! Fedora installed absolutely fine, and the system seems to be acting as normal. Unfortunately, I don't somhow think that Linux and my parents will get along much. Or at all. Could this be a problem with a ballsed-up Windows installer, and if that is the case, how do I get a copy of XP installed? The other option is to see how Vista RC1 works, but that is also far, far from ideal, for reasons which should be obvious.

Pezzoni · Post by **Pezzoni** » 2006-09-27 04:31pm

Vista didn't work either. This piece of shit Shuttle is going back tomorrow morning, unless anyone can think of anything else which could conceivably cause the issues?

Thanks again for all the help and advice doled out, but it does feel like it might just be a fucked memory controller

Post by **Beowulf** » 2006-09-27 04:50pm

I would have recommended letting Memtest 86+ run for a while, like, overnight. If the mem controller is really the problem, sending the Shuttle back won't help, because the mem controller is on the processor.

Pezzoni · Post by **Pezzoni** » 2006-09-27 04:54pm

Shit... That I forgot about. I'll give memtest an extended overnight run then - see what it throws up. I do have trouble believing that I've had two loads of faulty RAM though?

Post by **Beowulf** » 2006-09-27 05:29pm

Pezzoni wrote:Shit... That I forgot about. I'll give memtest an extended overnight run then - see what it throws up. I do have trouble believing that I've had two loads of faulty RAM though?

Yeah, I'm doubting it too.

Pezzoni · Post by **Pezzoni** » 2006-09-27 05:59pm

Another two and 3/4 passes complete, and still no errors. I'll leave it running though.

Do you think it is more likely the CPU or motherboard which is at fault here? I'm convinced that it is one of the two now, but unfortunately have no possible way of isolating the component. I might nip down to a local PC shop to see if they'll loan me a processor to test in the system though, which might help I suppose.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2006-09-27 06:02pm

Pezzoni wrote:Another two and 3/4 passes complete, and still no errors. I'll leave it running though.

Do you think it is more likely the CPU or motherboard which is at fault here? I'm convinced that it is one of the two now, but unfortunately have no possible way of isolating the component. I might nip down to a local PC shop to see if they'll loan me a processor to test in the system though, which might help I suppose.

On the one hand, processors don't usually have problems. On the other, the memory controller is on the proc. The only thing between the mem and the proc is a bunch of traces. I'd say try a different processor.

Pezzoni · Post by **Pezzoni** » 2006-09-28 05:01am

34 memory checker passes over 12 hours, and not a single error. It can't be the memory. Time to call the place I ordered from, and to ask what they'd like to replace first

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2006-09-28 05:15am

CPU ? Run http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm for awhile and see if it crashes.

Pezzoni · Post by **Pezzoni** » 2006-12-17 02:47pm

Got the Shuttle back, and guess what? No Motherboard problem! Apparently they were able to install Windows fine on both SATA and IDE drives. I'm now thinking it must be the processor (but no operating system for other AM2 computers = no way to test). Either way, the components I have:

Motherboard - Apparently fine
RAM - Possible, but 4 dead sticks is incredibly unlikely
CPU - The system boots, but the memory controller on an Althon is on the CPU rather than the motherboard, so this is a possiblilty
Hard Drives - Attempted to install both in & out of RAID configurations, with the same results. Incompatibily is unlikely, and a google turns up nothing.
Graphics - System boots absolutely fine, and the display looks fine. Should have no effect anyway.
DVD/Floppy drives - possible incompatibility, but the chances are again tiny.
SATA driver - possible, but again, I can't find any details listing a problem.

I'm feeling a trip to the local PC shop (who said the problem was the motherboard last time, and therefore will retest it for free) tomorrow, unless anyone can think of anything I've missed?

Tolya · Post by **Tolya** » 2006-12-17 04:58pm

Remember that automatic settings done by BIOS for RAM and other stuff need not always work.

For example, when I put my current machine together for the first time, I also had some big problems with locking up.

Guess what, BIOS set the default speed of RAM to 200Mhz (it was quick back then) and a 256mb Kingston stick just couldnt run it without problems. I manually reverted it to 133mhz and didnt have any problems with RAM since then.

FYI, automatic doesnt always mean good.

I would begin by trying to declock EVERYTHING that you can. Lower the main bus, RAM etc. (keeping the voltages intact) and see if anything screws up.

Pezzoni · Post by **Pezzoni** » 2006-12-17 07:34pm

Okay the settings with regards to memory are currently on auto.

The memory clock value appears to have been set to 'DDR 400'
The timings have been set to:
(Tcl) CAS Latency: 5 clocks
(Tcrd) RAS to CAS R/W delay: 6 clocks
(Trp) Row precharge time: 6 clocks
(Tras) RAS active time: 18 Clocks

The memory is two sticks of DDR2 PC2-6400 • CL=5 • UNBUFFERED • NON-ECC • DDR2-800 • 1.8V • 64Meg x 64

Any of that look like it is in need of modification?

Thanks,

Tolya · Post by **Tolya** » 2006-12-18 08:16am

Leave their timings intact. If possible, back out the bus speed. Its usually the same as the CPU bus speed, so backing that out should also declock the CPU.

Sorry for being so general, but without any specific knowledge as to your mobo BIOS, Im not able to tell you anything specific.

Tolya · Post by **Tolya** » 2006-12-18 08:17am

Oh, and by the way, do you have a Virus-Protect thingy in your BIOS off? It screws up installation of any windows really.

Pezzoni · Post by **Pezzoni** » 2006-12-22 12:42pm

The local PC shop managed to get it to install (then charged me £69 for it, even though I only asked them to do the diagnostics).

They did it by forcing single channel mode by moving the memory into different banks, which allowed everything to work. Obviously I want dual channel mode, so I phoned them. The conversation went something like this:

*Preamble*
'I want it running in Dual Channel please'
'It it becomes unstable, bring it in'
'I'm not currently concerned about the stability, but I would like the full performance'
'You're not going to get this until Vista comes out anyway for proper x64 support'
'I'd still like the full performance from the memory, running in x64 isn't going to get me dual channel'
'If it becomes unstable, bring it in'
'I'd like the full performance though'
'If it becomes unstable, bring it in'
'I think it could be the memory controller that's causing this'
'That or the southbridge'
'They tested the motherboard though'
'Maybe not properly. As I say, if it becomes unstable, bring it in'
'*Gives up* Okay, thanks'

Grr. I shall be returning tomorrow to continue the argument. I personally thing that this makes it pretty clear the memory controller is partially fucked: massive instability in only the more complex memory mode really does seem to support this hypothesis... Any agreement on this?

Pezzoni · Post by **Pezzoni** » 2006-12-22 12:48pm

I was also told that 'SATA RAID is a waste of time, it doesn't work properly, and frequently causes MBR corruption'. I've never heard of this before, can anyone confirm / deny - I suspect it was them attempting to get out of at least partially refunding me or having to reinstall...

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2006-12-22 12:57pm

Pezzoni wrote:I was also told that 'SATA RAID is a waste of time, it doesn't work properly, and frequently causes MBR corruption'. I've never heard of this before, can anyone confirm / deny - I suspect it was them attempting to get out of at least partially refunding me or having to reinstall...

I admit I havn't been keeping track of this thread, but what they could mention is the nForce4s data corruption issues.
I doubt that this is the problem.

Pezzoni · Post by **Pezzoni** » 2007-01-01 07:53pm

Fixed!

Guess what the problem was? Not memory. Not CPU. Not motherboard... The fact that the supplied nVidia SATA RAID drivers didn't actually work. The PC shop fluked it by installing windows with no RAID drivers, presumably just after swapping the memory causing them to misdiagnose.

Downloading the newest drivers from the nVidia website and putting them on a floppy made everything install (RAID Mirrored, as I wanted), and the system is running both in a stable fashion and as quickly as a greased post-curry turd.

Thank you to everyone who offered suggestions, advice and general support!