Family Programming, Religion, and Insensitive Atheists

Haruko · Post by **Haruko** » 2006-09-27 12:24am

I don't watch much television nowadays, but once in awhile I flip to a channel and watch something, even if I've never seen it before, if there is some way I can find it interesting. So I watched Kyle XY, and the subject of religion poked its head in several times in a few episodes. One time is Kyle's father being asked if he's a religious man, another with Kyle walking into a church and talking to a cleric, part of that conversation being the cleric assuring Kyle that the universe must have rose from a creator, another with a good friend of Kyle having her faith shaken and being able to regain her confidence, and, one that was somewhat disturbing to me, another friend who I'm assuming is an atheist and who said something along the lines of "you guys don't actually believe this crap do you! When you die you're all just gonna rot in the ground! There's nothing else!" in response to Kyle and his friends who're getting into some supernatural stuff including a Weegie Board when on the subject of Kyle's mysterious path and his search for answers.

That last bit reminded me of something I've seen sometimes in family programming: someone who, if not an atheist, is at least hostile towards religion and has absolutely no regard for the sensitivity of his friends when it comes to the subject of mysticism and religion and reacts in a way that seems unreal to me. This person is also someone who's "lost" or looking to become a better person.

Anyways, is there really a correlation between family programming, the idea that religion, specifically monotheism and Christianity, fits inalienably into the subject, and that atheists, anti-religionists, or secularists, if identified, are usually insensitive, rude, and have problems that can be solved by the more faithful?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-09-27 12:34am

Generally speaking, on "family TV", an atheist is just a Christian who "turned away from God", usually because of some sort of trauma that made him angry at God. The idea of the atheist who arrived at a logical conclusion is totally alien to the world of "family TV", or most other kinds of TV for that matter.

Medic · Post by **Medic** » 2006-09-27 09:27am

There was a poster on this board that actually had a presentation to some high school kids and IIRC, he did in fact have to point out: yes, there really ARE people who don't believe in God and not that they got 'lost' or never heard the 'good news.'

I myself haven't observed that particular facet in TV, but then what's familiy TV compared to football, hockey, G4 and The Daily Show?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-09-27 10:23am

Actually, Dr. Gregory House is an avid atheist and will never pass up an opportunity to smackdown stupid religious ideas. Yes, he is an ass, but he's also the smart guy. Having the star of the show who saves lives and is an intelligent force to be reckoned with gives kudos to atheism.

Rare as this is, though.

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2006-09-27 12:00pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Actually, Dr. Gregory House is an avid atheist and will never pass up an opportunity to smackdown stupid religious ideas. Yes, he is an ass, but he's also the smart guy. Having the star of the show who saves lives and is an intelligent force to be reckoned with gives kudos to atheism.

House feels like more of a compromise than a tribute; sure he's the star, but he's also the Christian stereotype of all atheists: Intellectual, elitist, angry at the happy smiling people of the world and miserable with his life.

Post by **Kuja** » 2006-09-27 12:06pm

Lagmonster wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:Actually, Dr. Gregory House is an avid atheist and will never pass up an opportunity to smackdown stupid religious ideas. Yes, he is an ass, but he's also the smart guy. Having the star of the show who saves lives and is an intelligent force to be reckoned with gives kudos to atheism.
House feels like more of a compromise than a tribute; sure he's the star, but he's also the Christian stereotype of all atheists: Intellectual, elitist, angry at the happy smiling people of the world and miserable with his life.

I have to agree; House isn't a very positive portrayal of atheists at all. Half the point of the show is that if their guy were'nt so smart, he'd have been shitcanned years ago for being an asshole.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-09-27 12:06pm

I don't recall ever seeing someone who was confirmed to be an atheist in a movie who was a happy person with a family.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-09-27 12:25pm

To be honest, with House, I think it's just his intellect that makes him difficult, not that he's an atheist. The two are linked though, since intelligence often dictates lack of religion. I would like to find a better example, really, but that's the best I can throw at you right now.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2006-09-27 01:53pm

Darth Wong wrote:I don't recall ever seeing someone who was confirmed to be an atheist in a movie who was a happy person with a family.

The only example I can think of is Spawn, portrayed as a nice happy black guy with a family prior to dying and going to hell and getting his super powers. That one's down to the comic influence, obviously, and probably wouldn't be there if it was all written by your average writers.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2006-09-27 02:07pm

One of the few positive role-model atheists seen on American TV was none other than Mike Stivic of All In The Family. His atheism was one more thing to counterbalance Archie Bunker with, but Mike had a more-or-less happy life with his family (notwithstanding his ongoing feud with Archie), found things he could agree on with the Bunker's Catholic neighbour Irene Lorenzo, and when Edith was facing a major crisis of faith over a tragedy, Mike helped her find peace again.

Haruko · Post by **Haruko** » 2006-09-27 04:46pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Actually, Dr. Gregory House is an avid atheist and will never pass up an opportunity to smackdown stupid religious ideas. Yes, he is an ass, but he's also the smart guy. Having the star of the show who saves lives and is an intelligent force to be reckoned with gives kudos to atheism.

Rare as this is, though.

That came to my mind. I was thinking along the lines of, "the only portrayal of an atheist I can think of where I suppose he was somehwat portrayed a little 'better' than is typical is Gregory House of House, but that's not a 'family tv' show". I was surprised to see Mr. House owning openly as an atheist in that episode "House v. God", and that it aired on FOX of all channels, but Lagmonster made a great point that he still falls into that stereotypical role, and I certainly wasn't surprised that the fellow doctor Mr. House talked to at the end of the episode (upon him asking if they're "still cool") got the last word, with a simple line along the lines of "You're. . . the way God made you", and that it would stump Mr. House as if he couldn't come up with a witty comeback. Or maybe that's just the part of my talking that wish he shot back saying at least something along the lines of, "You mean Nature."

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2006-09-27 10:44pm

Rye wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:I don't recall ever seeing someone who was confirmed to be an atheist in a movie who was a happy person with a family.
The only example I can think of is Spawn, portrayed as a nice happy black guy with a family prior to dying and going to hell and getting his super powers.

A nice happy ASSASSIN.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2006-09-28 01:56am

Rye wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:I don't recall ever seeing someone who was confirmed to be an atheist in a movie who was a happy person with a family.
The only example I can think of is Spawn, portrayed as a nice happy black guy with a family prior to dying and going to hell and getting his super powers. That one's down to the comic influence, obviously, and probably wouldn't be there if it was all written by your average writers.

See, now that's just buying into the whole "black athiests are always assassins who are proven wrong when they wind up in hell" stereotype.

Ryushikaze · Post by **Ryushikaze** » 2006-09-28 04:11am

It's not fiction, but I would classify Mythbusters as family TV, and they're pretty much all avowed atheist. Unfortunately, that does not help bring to mind positive atheist depictions in fiction.

Would Eureka count as family programing?

Cincinnatus · Post by **Cincinnatus** » 2006-09-28 04:18am

Dr. Cameron from House is also an athiest, and she isn't an ass.

Pezzoni · Post by **Pezzoni** » 2006-09-28 05:47am

I think it's also been made relative clear that Lisa Simpson is an atheist, and she is generally portrayed positively in this role. Of course, the religious always get the last word in the episode, similarly to in House v God.

And whilst House is a total arse, he's a likeable one (somewhat miraculously) - he's written in such a way that the watchers don't actually hate him. But then again, he is lonely and unhappy, so it's hardly a positive portrayal. Dr Cameron is also stated to be an atheist, but again, she carries a 'damaged' label, and doesn't appear to be truly happy.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-09-28 08:55am

Pezzoni wrote:I think it's also been made relative clear that Lisa Simpson is an atheist, and she is generally portrayed positively in this role. Of course, the religious always get the last word in the episode, similarly to in House v God.

What the fuck show have you been watching? Lisa Simpson is just one stripe short of being a full-blown Bible-thumping fanatic. She faithfully attends church and fears that her daddy will go to Hell because he was stealing the cable signal.

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2006-09-28 08:56am

Pezzoni wrote:I think it's also been made relative clear that Lisa Simpson is an atheist, and she is generally portrayed positively in this role. Of course, the religious always get the last word in the episode, similarly to in House v God.

Well, more like buddhist (although I hear its a lot like atheism for some reason)

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2006-09-28 08:58am

wautd wrote:
Pezzoni wrote:I think it's also been made relative clear that Lisa Simpson is an atheist, and she is generally portrayed positively in this role. Of course, the religious always get the last word in the episode, similarly to in House v God.
Well, more like buddhist (although I hear its a lot like atheism for some reason)

edit after reasing Wong's comment: since rather recently she's a buddhist

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-09-28 09:03am

Doesn't anybody else remember the episode when she was reciting the Ten Commandments at her family?

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2006-09-28 09:25am

Do you not remember the fossilised angel episode? "It's bad enough you're taking me to your stupid judgment day,"or the episode when Homer corrupts the church and genesis-style floods go down and she says "there's a rational explanation for all of this," and Homer goes "listen not to the unclean one, o lord!" or something? Earlier on she was more christian, but she did turn to buddhism, she meditates, doesn't pray, etc.

Pezzoni · Post by **Pezzoni** » 2006-09-28 09:25am

And the episode where she campaigns against the teaching of creationism? She certainly presented an atheistic viewpoint (not limited to the creationism, I remember that she also spoke about the existence of god). I do concede that she has also shown religious tendencies and beliefs though - there are inconsistencies. I'm going to watch the creationism episode (17x21 - The Monkey Suit) again now though.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2006-09-28 09:27am

Darth Wong wrote:Doesn't anybody else remember the episode when she was reciting the Ten Commandments at her family?

I remember that episode. It's interesting how Lisa, as a child, is more afraid of being punished with hell thanks to Lovejoy's sermon than doing good for it's own sake. There was another episode where Lisa was very critical of religion (it was the episode where an 'angel' was dug out of the ground, and it turned out to be fake - planted by a shopping centre company as a cynical publicity stunt), and yet another episode where she became a buddhist.

The problem with the Simpsons is that there is no real continuity or consistency. In that episode Lisa is a religion-hating atheist, while in the episode you're remembering she's a god-fearing christian girl.

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2006-09-28 09:33am

In the older episodes she's the typical god-fearing girl, but in the newer episodes she got more atheist/scientific tendencies and turned to Buddhism when she saw her church became corrupted

Marge is easely the fundie of the family

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2006-09-28 09:39am

That's right, she outright says to Homer in an early-season episode "Homer please, don't make me choose between my husband and my god because you'll always lose."