female slavery

[Superman]

Yeah, I would say good for the woman getting out of her crappy country too, but laugh at the sucker dumb enough to marry a woman he hasn't met.

The fact is that it's a woman you don't know, but plan to spend the rest of your life with. She could be a hooker, she could be planning to get her citizenship... who knows. The point is that it's pathetic.

[NecronLord]

The point is that it's pathetic.

Yes. For a certain value of pathetic, at least. I objected to you saying so, because last time I paid any amount of attention to your posts, you came across as about fourteen or fifteen (which would put you at about seventeen or maybe eighteen) now. Hence the reaction - 'He can't be fuckin' married, so how does he know he won't end up just as "pathetic"'

I apologise.

[NecronLord]

I do believe I've gone on at considerable length about the continued existance of slavery elsewhere on these forums,

And a search reveals that I... haven't. Surprisingly.

[Superman]

The point is that it's pathetic.

Yes. For a certain value of pathetic, at least. I objected to you saying so, because last time I paid any amount of attention to your posts, you came across as about fourteen or fifteen (which would put you at about seventeen or maybe eighteen) now. Hence the reaction - 'He can't be fuckin' married, so how does he know he won't end up just as "pathetic"'

I apologise.

Well, I would take offense, I but agree that my mind is actually in the 14 or 15 range. You should see me off the meds.

I apologize too. *big hug*

[NecronLord]

Well, I would take offense, I but agree that my mind is actually in the 14 or 15 range. You should see me off the meds.

I think I have. Hence the bile and contempt.

I apologize too. *big hug*

You have nothing to apologise for. But thanks anyway *hugs, goes back to writing an apporpriate rant on the topic.*

Oh, aye, congratulations on the marriage.

[Hillary]

Not entirely sure I see the problem in Yosemite's OP. Rich ugly old men marry pretty young girls all the time. Just because there's a formal contract in this case, why does that make it any different.

OK, this guy may not be rich in our terms, but to the girl, he's probably loaded.

People get married for all sorts of reasons other than the romantic "true love" ideal. If the arrangement suits both parties, that's great.

As for pathetic - well, it depends on how you look at it. People like Supes who are young and playing the field will think so. Those of us who have successful marriages may do so too. But there are lots of guys who, for whatever reason, haven't got a girl and will never get one through normal dating. For them, the alternative to mail order bride is the rest of their life alone, a much more pathetic existence.

If this is immoral, then so is prostitution.

[NecronLord]

I may or may not have said this before, but as it puts my spite nicely in context; my personal favourite kinks are along the ‘BDSM’ line. Most recently, here, I’ve been growling in the general direction of Brannon Braga’s deranged and delusional comments on such. Anyway, of course, aside from this, I tend to consider myself a moral person. As such, like anyone else with any claim to more ethics than a weasel, I find the abuse and coercion of people (in isolation, doesn’t mean I refuse to pay taxes, which is the ultimate extension of such, Nozic’s brand of lunatic Libertarianism, while insane, is ultimately logical in that, to my mind) abhorrent. I certainly shan’t bother explaining why, as we all surely know, but rather, my own interest.

Now, while all forms of such infringement of the sovereignty of another being, without exceptional circumstances such as self-defence, taxation, or the typical ‘kill Hitler’ scenarios we get here, are abominations, the aforementioned sexual tastes mean that I have especial hate for such abuses of people that reflects in methods or style my own desires and practices. Hence, aside from just rational moral reasons, I find the concept of sexual violence disgusting because of its perversity being related distantly to my own personal perversion. There’s a less important reason that’s sometimes presented along the same lines, in that it makes it hard for such ‘lifestyle’ activities to be accepted. I frankly don’t give a monkey’s about that, consciously at least, but I’ll mention it for completeness anyway.

Goreans, while I try to be quiet, are one such area of hatred (and them, consciously, for the latter reason, because they try to associate their repellent ethical defectiveness with ‘mainstream’ BDSM) because they have the temerity to come up with an entire monstrous stinking pile of faeces to excuse immoral acts, with an insane and mentally damaging propaganda campaign that presents fantasies that are both despicable and laughable as ethical.

In the same vain, abusive relationships also piss me off, domestic violence, also one of the goals of those I have (had in the past, I’m overdrawn at this precise moment, fucking incompetent admin people…) direct debits for, again ‘gets my goat’ because it’s a personally as well as intellectually offensive evil.

And now to get to the point, sexual slavery, it happens, I don’t know how anyone could get the idea that I was denying it. It’d be like thinking I was claiming birds don’t exist for saying that bats were mammals. From what I can tell, the anecdote in the Original Post is about mail-order brides, in a consensual setting not liable to produce abuse. While it has the same appearance – wings, perches in trees – as a lot of slavery in the West, it’s not the same thing. Of course, it might, as said above, be ‘pathetic’ but that’s another matter entirely.

If the husband in this case actually turns out to be abusive, either in a ‘normal’ context of domestic violence, or in the more specific case of actually wanting to use his intended wife as a slave, then I would happily be the first one to smack him in the crotch with a cricket bat. Make no mistake; I say there are no excuses, and no acceptable rationalisations (barring of course, tremendously unlikely ‘Kill Hitler’) for either, both are very real examples of the persistent evil in the world, and if given the opportunity, I would gladly give my life to eliminate them, and this is not said boastfully, I am an utter coward, under most circumstances, but some things do require sacrifice to eliminate them, and I would happily sacrifice anything I have to eliminate these.

Sex Slavery in the world is a very real phenomenon, and it exists in all sorts of repellent forms, from child-abuse (and don’t think it’s all ‘female slavery’ either) and other forms of often racially motivated chattel slavery in the Middle East, especially Saudi Arabia, to trafficked women in brothels in this country – probably even this town, or city at last.

The arrangement of marriages is something that is often used as a cover for this execrable behaviour (though I believe, at least in the UK, the promise of work is currently the most common) and in such cases, there should be no mercy or restraint in hunting down and punishing – I’m tempted to say ‘destroying’ but I’m not a real believer in the Death Penalty, either– those who betray such trust.

But without further evidence, I wouldn’t say this is the case here. This does not in any way deny the misery of countless others, any more than the historic existence of ‘free’ ‘Negroes’ in New Orleans refutes the misery of less fortunate others then enslaved in Louisiana.

Tempted as I am, I’ll refrain from digressing to more ranting about the widespread nature and methodologies of slavery in the modern world, save to say I can see why Ando’s got that impression. Note, when I said ‘this kind of agency’ I meant ones that fly the punters out to meet the women and so forth, as opposed to any ‘agencies.’ People most certainly are kidnapped for such things, usually, in the UK and other European countries at least, by theft or destruction of their passports and identification papers, and fear of the host country’s police.

To sum up my feelings on modern slavery: It’s there, it’s disgusting, loathsome, repulsive and evil, and it must be destroyed.

I think that about covers it…

[The Yosemite Bear]

NR: I also mentioned the fringe cult of the Mormons, which considers it totally all right to force a 14 year old to be some guy's wife #8, their leader is being tried in federal court for: Kidnapping, huamn trafficing, STATUTORY RAPE, etc. and used religion to co-eirce young women into following his world view.

[Hillary]

NR: I also mentioned the fringe cult of the Mormons, which considers it totally all right to force a 14 year old to be some guy's wife #8, their leader is being tried in federal court for: Kidnapping, huamn trafficing, STATUTORY RAPE, etc. and used religion to co-eirce young women into following his world view.

I wish I had a religious moral code like that Let's hope he is similarly abused while serving his sentence.

[NecronLord]

NR: I also mentioned the fringe cult of the Mormons, which considers it totally all right to force a 14 year old to be some guy's wife #8, their leader is being tried in federal court for: Kidnapping, huamn trafficing, STATUTORY RAPE, etc. and used religion to co-eirce young women into following his world view.

I'm aware of the Fundamentalist LDS, assuming they're the ones you're talking about. They're just less interesting to rant about than the Goreans.

[Crown]

Let's pretend for 2 seconds that it's not pathetic.

Pathetic is subjective, and comparative. We're all pathetic compared to Norman Borlaug.

Dude, I get your point but you can't seriously be using the man who has saved BILLIONS of people from starvation as any kind of reasonable standard for 'normal' (as in the opposite of pathetic).

[Dominus Atheos]

Let's pretend for 2 seconds that it's not pathetic.

Pathetic is subjective, and comparative. We're all pathetic compared to Norman Borlaug.

Dude, I get your point but you can't seriously be using the man who has saved BILLIONS of people from starvation as any kind of reasonable standard for 'normal' (as in the opposite of pathetic).

It's a very rare literary device called "Hyperbole," and it's defined as "an intentional exaggeration for emphasis or comic effect." But I can completely understand why you wouldn't recognize it. Afterall, it's very rare, and almost never used in say, debating, serious discussion, or even normal conversation.

[NecronLord]

Dude, I get your point but you can't seriously be using the man who has saved BILLIONS of people from starvation as any kind of reasonable standard for 'normal' (as in the opposite of pathetic).

Indeed. It's an exaggeration for effect. He's hardly the yardstick by which I normally measure people. Of course, I think the right number would be between one and one and half billion, so far.

[The Yosemite Bear]

note what's pissing me off in the case of the co-worker is that he's going to be staying over seas for the next year or so be cause the girl in question is too young for US consent laws. (the guy in question is in his thirties). On the other hand we have former member Ali-Sama, whose engaged to a woman in her late twenties that's just too westernized in her world views to survive in the long run in the country of her residence. (hint the chicken hawks are pressing for war with that nation, which is why her visa is in the "cold day in hades" catagory)

[NecronLord]

note what's pissing me off in the case of the co-worker is that he's going to be staying over seas for the next year or so be cause the girl in question is too young for US consent laws.

Now you tell us. After I made a big deal of defending the shithead. There's no excuse for that, even though this country has consent at sixteen, there's no way it's moral to take advantage of a kid like that, who is clearly not old enough to make that kind of choice fully informed.

I need an egg-on-the-face smilie. Gah.

[Solauren]

Report him to the law enforcement agencies, DUH

[NecronLord]

Report him to the law enforcement agencies, DUH

See, I doubt it's actually illegal in the country he's going to. And, disgusting as it might be, there's probably no legal grounds to get him.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Immoral and unjust as shit, the country he's moving to has consent set at 14, and the only thing you really could charge him with is the Mann act should he ever come back to the US (traveling across state or foreign borders for the purpose of an immoral act.)

[Seggybop]

Report him to the law enforcement agencies, DUH

See, I doubt it's actually illegal in the country he's going to. And, disgusting as it might be, there's probably no legal grounds to get him.

I'm pretty sure it's illegal for US citizens to travel abroad for these purposes. I've definitely heard of people getting nailed for it. He needs to be reported. Even if it ends up being legal, at least an attempt was made.

[PrinceofLowLight]

Saw a documentary a while back that claimed there were about 27 million slaves worldwide. 22 million of them were in India, some sort of trans-generation indentured servatitude deal. it's illegal in India, but there's almost no inforcement.

5 million slaves worldwide outside of India does not sound right. Perhaps census takers and documentary filmmakers are just much safer in India than in other places where it happens.

[General Trelane (Retired)]

Let's pretend for 2 seconds that it's not pathetic.

Yes, it's pathetic. But so was Who Wants to Marry a Millionaire and The Bachelor (in all its iterations). But sometimes, just sometimes, they do work out. In which case, way to go!

note what's pissing me off in the case of the co-worker is that he's going to be staying over seas for the next year or so be cause the girl in question is too young for US consent laws

OK, that goes beyond pathetic. He could have decided to settle for an engagement until she's old enough. Worried about her well-being in the meantime? Send her an allowance. He certainly had other options. . .