Darth Bane: Path of Destruction [Includes Spoilers]

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2006-09-29 11:32pm

I went by the local Borders and found the novel and glanced through it. It was actually an interesting read. I found some interesting/disturbing (depends how you look at it).

Among the ships mentioned were "Hammerhead" class capital ships. I am guessing that 2000 years since the Jedi Civil War, the Republic might be using a variant of that old ship, given that the description of those ships are similar to what we saw in KOTOR. The ships have large heavy guns at the front but must be steered in the direction of the enemy. The placement of the weapons was a major point of weakness that allowed a Sith Captain, able enough, to outmaneuver the enemy and fire off his weapons. Of interesting point of note: The guns of the ships are powerful. A concentrated barrage from one and a supporting coordinated barrage at the same spot vaporised a Sith Destroyer. It is unknown what the Sith Destroyer it, though I wouldn't put it past the Sith to reuse those old ships that Revan and Malak used. Another ships include buzzard fighters and such.

Interesting tie-ins to the KOTOR games, at least the author appears to be tapping the great wealth of material he could find. Not clumsy about it too.

000 · Post by **000** » 2006-09-30 12:08am

From what I've heard so far this book is a continuity disaster matched only by Legacy of the Force.

I'll read it for myself before condemning it, but given Del Rey's sudden apparent disregard for continuity I wouldn't be surprised were it as bad as I'm hearing.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2006-09-30 01:29am

I have purchased the book, and will provide details as soon as I plow trhough it.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2006-09-30 01:30am

I'm mildly curious, but not enough to buy it, so please, spoil away.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-09-30 01:47am

I'm gonna read it either way. I'm one of those guilt ridden people that will by it just 'cause it says "Star Wars" on the cover

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2006-09-30 01:48am

000 wrote:From what I've heard so far this book is a continuity disaster matched only by Legacy of the Force.

I'll read it for myself before condemning it, but given Del Rey's sudden apparent disregard for continuity I wouldn't be surprised were it as bad as I'm hearing.

What are the differences between the comics and the novel?

Granted, there's no love lost between Del Rey and Dark Horse.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-09-30 01:54am

The comics aren't the same story as the novels. LOTF(novel) is set 40 years ABY while Legacy(comic) begins 130 ABY.

000 · Post by **000** » 2006-09-30 02:43am

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:What are the differences between the comics and the novel?

The short answer is, apparently, everything.

The long list includes the following in no particular order (bear in mind this is second hand information):

- Laa is killed by a blaster bolt, rather than an arrow
- Darovit has a dramatically different part in the story
- Githany dies differently than in JvS
- Zannah shows up randomly
- Farfalla et al are described vaguely enough as to be assumed human, rather than Equine and so forth
- Farfalla survives the Thought Bomb
- Pernicar dies prior to he events of JvS
- Kaan and Bane have never met prior to Ruusan
- Hoth is near insanity
- Bane is a student up until immediately before JvS

Apparently there's also a double helping of references to KotOR. I'm sure this has nothing to do with Karpyshyn having written the game.

Oddly, posts in the discussion thread are being very heavily moderated, with even the slightest suggestion that the author failed to do the proper research or allusions to the rumored Dark Horse/Del Rey feud being quickly excised.

Havokeff-- I'm well aware that Legacy and LotF are two entirely different things...

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2006-09-30 02:45am

The feud is bloody well known except to the noobs.

Is it me or is Del Rey taking up the mantle of the "pro-KTesque" crusade? They seem to be protecting their "breathen" and their rivalry with Dark Horse seems to be breaking out into the open?

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-09-30 03:00am

000 wrote:
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:What are the differences between the comics and the novel?
The short answer is, apparently, everything.

The long list includes the following in no particular order (bear in mind this is second hand information):

- Laa is killed by a blaster bolt, rather than an arrow
- Darovit has a dramatically different part in the story
- Githany dies differently than in JvS
- Zannah shows up randomly
- Farfalla et al are described vaguely enough as to be assumed human, rather than Equine and so forth
- Farfalla survives the Thought Bomb
- Pernicar dies prior to he events of JvS
- Kaan and Bane have never met prior to Ruusan
- Hoth is near insanity
- Bane is a student up until immediately before JvS

Apparently there's also a double helping of references to KotOR. I'm sure this has nothing to do with Karpyshyn having written the game.

Oddly, posts in the discussion thread are being very heavily moderated, with even the slightest suggestion that the author failed to do the proper research or allusions to the rumored Dark Horse/Del Rey feud being quickly excised.

Havokeff-- I'm well aware that Legacy and LotF are two entirely different things...

Uh... DUH!! I totally misunderstood what the question was referencing.

Sorry

000 · Post by **000** » 2006-09-30 03:18am

Ah, I see now, havokeff. No problem.

FN wrote:Is it me or is Del Rey taking up the mantle of the "pro-KTesque" crusade? They seem to be protecting their "breathen" and their rivalry with Dark Horse seems to be breaking out into the open?

I'm not sure that I'd go so far as to ascribe the rumored DH/DR feud as being the cause fo the recent mishaps, but I am very nonplussed about Del Rey's flippant attitude toward continuity in their most recent outings. I am not exaggerating when I say Bloodlines is literally the worst job at keeping continuity I have yet seen-- and Karen Traviss can't be entirely to blame for it. In the case of a series like LotF it should be the responsibility of the editors to keep the authors in line and ensure that the story flows naturally; this obviously did not happen.

Like I've been saying over at TF.N, what gets me the most is how its apparent that the research is being done-- it's just being done superficially and resulting in inappropriate name-dropping (Jabiim in LotF is a prime example of this) or being done but simply ignored in favor of the author's whims. We see this lately in video games, in the Hyperspace webstrips, in the Clone Wars cartoon of a few years ago, and most commonly recently in Del Reys novels. The only branch of the franchise that seems to avoid this trap is Dark Horse. And, as much as I'd like to ascribe it to the Dark Horse folks being mostly old timers who know how everything works vice overeager newcomers, this isn't even the case: John Jackson Miller, for starters, is a brand new contributor to the franchise and is doing a frankly stellar job on the Knights of the Old Republic series. Dustin Weaver, his artist for the most recent arc, is doing just as impressive a job; he made a very very minor error in #7 by inserting an anachronistic Mandalorian symbol into the art, got called on it by a fan, and went out of his way to design a new symbol for future use and promised us a fix in the trade paper back.

If anyone at Del Rey showed such care for continuity I'd probaly pass out.

EDIT: At any rate, I'm still going to read the story for myself before completely condemning it. Unless QuentinGeorge, Kuralyov, or Hydronium from the Wooki read it prior to me and hate it. Then I just won't bother.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-09-30 05:06am

The feud is bloody well known except to the noobs.

-___-

So, it's that bad, huh? We're gonna have some headaches at Wookiepedia over this. I guess, since this novel came later, it supercedes an earlier comic of similar standing. Which is a shame if that's how it is, since I liked that comic as presented.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2006-09-30 06:25am

VT-16 wrote:
The feud is bloody well known except to the noobs.
-___-

So, it's that bad, huh? We're gonna have some headaches at Wookiepedia over this. I guess, since this novel came later, it supercedes an earlier comic of similar standing. Which is a shame if that's how it is, since I liked that comic as presented.

I would think everything that gets rid of LotR-similarities is a good thing.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-09-30 07:48am

Bah, humbug.

Well, I will admit, the whole design-style of the comic version seemed almost too low-tech and fantasy-like at times. I can only remember one type of high-rise blocky tank on the Sith side, which was hardly even used. Plus all the melee combat and having air-assaults on swoop bikes with all the prominent Sith on the frontline. I guess after 1000 years of on/off warfare, things got a bit bad, but THAT bad? And why didn't they just bombard the Sith from orbit? Sheeze. Maybe you're right, maybe this is better. :S

000 · Post by **000** » 2006-09-30 11:49am

FTeik wrote:I would think everything that gets rid of LotR-similarities is a good thing.

I agree, but that's not how retconning should work. A professional creates logical explanations and expands offscreen elements, not simply overrides and does their own thing. Karpyshyn, for example, apparently didn't like Farfalla and his ilk being styled after Greek mythological creatures; that's fine, and I agree. Instead of simply ignoring his alienness, however, a true pro at this sort of thing would explain that Farfalla's species was the result of Arkanian-style genetic tampering, link them with similarly silly species (chiron, melodies, etc.), and tie it all up in a neat bow. Dan Wallace, for instance, explained Farfalla's straight-from-a-fairy-tale warship as eccentric and a weird personal decision for Farfalla, rather than making it something it isn't.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2006-09-30 11:54am

One other thing I am puzzled: Why is the Republic using the similar ships as it did 2000 years ago? Did the treasury go so badly bankrupt 2k years ago that it didn't have resources to fund the R&D?

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-09-30 12:01pm

Able to make a list of the ships participating in this period of time?

Are they really meant to be vessels from the time of the Old Sith Wars? I mean, it's not impossible, the Invincible-class dreadnought and Class VI freighter are 3000 and 4000 years old in the GCW era, but still in use. But, these are supposed to be the main powers in the galaxy. Had their first-grade vessels been all spent up?

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2006-09-30 12:40pm

VT-16 wrote:Able to make a list of the ships participating in this period of time?

Are they really meant to be vessels from the time of the Old Sith Wars? I mean, it's not impossible, the Invincible-class dreadnought and Class VI freighter are 3000 and 4000 years old in the GCW era, but still in use. But, these are supposed to be the main powers in the galaxy. Had their first-grade vessels been all spent up?

I mentioned some in the initial post but anyway,

1. Hammerhead class vessels: Large guns in front. Unwieldy. Has to be oriented to aim at the enemy. Sounds familiar?
2. Dreadnaught cruisers: Invincible class ships?
3. Buzzard fighters: Unknown what they are
4. Sith Destroyers: I'm uncertain what they are, or whether they are the same ships 2000years ago, or whether or not the author mixed them up with the Dreadnaught

Also, there was one battle where the Sith were nearly repulsed thanks to a thick Republic fighter line. I recall all the details, but I wonder if this is another case of fighter wanking.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-09-30 12:45pm

So their name is Hammerhead-class? And the author worked on KOTOR? Sounds very familiar. :P

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2006-09-30 03:57pm

000 wrote: Oddly, posts in the discussion thread are being very heavily moderated, with even the slightest suggestion that the author failed to do the proper research or allusions to the rumored Dark Horse/Del Rey feud being quickly excised.

Which forum? SW.com or TFN? Have they been threatening or banning anyone like what happened with KT?

Edit: I'm also a bit curious: Where is Chee (or other continuity folks in all this?) I'd be curious to see what they have to say on this recent trend, if anything, if they're still around that is. I don't check the SW.com forums much anymore.

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-09-30 04:01pm

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Sith Destroyers: I'm uncertain what they are, or whether they are the same ships 2000years ago, or whether or not the author mixed them up with the Dreadnaught

Are they ever referred to as Leviathans?

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2006-09-30 04:06pm

Cao Cao wrote:
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Sith Destroyers: I'm uncertain what they are, or whether they are the same ships 2000years ago, or whether or not the author mixed them up with the Dreadnaught
Are they ever referred to as Leviathans?

I'm not sure. Maybe i'll glance through the book again.

Also, given the state of the Republic at the end of the Jedi Civil War, I highly doubt they ever continued production of the Leviathans and the Destroyers at least for a decade or two. What is left is probably in the Core fleets, if even any of them are left.

There is a possibility that 2000 years later the designs were revived and revamped.

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-09-30 04:12pm

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
Cao Cao wrote:
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Sith Destroyers: I'm uncertain what they are, or whether they are the same ships 2000years ago, or whether or not the author mixed them up with the Dreadnaught
Are they ever referred to as Leviathans?
I'm not sure. Maybe i'll glance through the book again.

Also, given the state of the Republic at the end of the Jedi Civil War, I highly doubt they ever continued production of the Leviathans and the Destroyers at least for a decade or two. What is left is probably in the Core fleets, if even any of them are left.

There is a possibility that 2000 years later the designs were revived and revamped.

Leviathans were purely a product of the Star Forge if I recall, the Republic never had a hand in making those.
They did however make the Star Destroyer type ship from KOTOR II that Darth Gluttonous (yes, I know that's not mask-boy's name) salvaged. I wonder if the author means to refer to those..

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2006-09-30 04:15pm

The Databank said that the Leviathans were Republic ships before a lot of them defected. Take a look at the Databank link: http://www.starwars.com/databank/starsh ... index.html

Admittedly, as many have pointed out, the specs seem to be a rip from the Interdictor cruisers. Further more, given the vague nature of KOTOR quotes and now this, I wonder whether or not the Leviathans were solely Star Forge ships.

Perhaps indeed the author was referring to the Ravager type, which does look more like a heavy warship than the Leviathans.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2006-09-30 05:29pm

Given what utter crap the Dark Horse Tales of the Jedi era stores were, I have no problem with them being retconned. There is no way an interstellar society is going to be running around with ground troops using bows and fucking arrows.