Steam and Steel: AltHist. Victorian STGOD

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2006-09-30 04:06am

Adrian Laguna wrote:I'm quite aware of that, however, trying to make CaptainChewbacca's design work seemed like a fun and interesting thing to do. The key here is "fun", I wouldn't have done it if I didn't enjoy it. The whole point of STGODs is, after all, recreation. Chewie can feel free to follow my suggestions to either modify the stats or the armament of his Fast Attack Vessel, or leave it as is. I think striving toward a level of realism is a good thing, but if the players don't want to then that's okay with me.

Speaking of historical examples. Turns-out that the German Armoured Cruiser Brandenberg, laid down in 1890, had quick-firing 6-inch guns.

Thank you for your help with the ship. I reduced the Blitzen's armament a bit, but any additional help you can give would be good. Also, as for my artillery, am I spending too MANY points for my corps, or not enough?

Cincinnatus · Post by **Cincinnatus** » 2006-09-30 04:44am

Anybody know if RedImperator or Vanas are still playing? I think they are the only ones with untraded food.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2006-09-30 07:00am

Cincinnatus wrote:Anybody know if RedImperator or Vanas are still playing? I think they are the only ones with untraded food.

I haven't traded my Food allotment yet.

A-Wing_Slash · Post by **A-Wing_Slash** » 2006-09-30 09:51am

Neither have I, I think.

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2006-09-30 02:01pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Thank you for your help with the ship. I reduced the Blitzen's armament a bit, but any additional help you can give would be good. Also, as for my artillery, am I spending too MANY points for my corps, or not enough?

The problem with your artillery is they are worth too much according to the rules. 100 points at max value per man is a bit uncomfortable, since buys you 3333 and 1/3 men. I suggest either rounding up to the nearest ten or the nearest hundred. Meaning, set you men to either 3340 or 3400.

Reducing the 6-inchers from 4 guns to 2 guns makes the design way more balanced. Good choice. Here's the report. Notice how your sea boat quality, speed, range, and steadiness went up. Meanwhile, recoil effect went down.

Code: Select all

Blitzen, New Germania Fast Attack Craft

Displacement:
	458 t light; 478 t standard; 500 t normal; 518 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
	203.41 ft / 203.41 ft x 24.61 ft x 9.65 ft (normal load)
	62.00 m / 62.00 m x 7.50 m  x 2.94 m

Armament:
      2 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (1x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1890 Model
	  Quick firing guns in deck mount 
	  on centreline forward
      2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1890 Model
	  Quick firing guns in deck mounts 
	  on side, all amidships
      1 - 2.71" / 68.9 mm guns in single mounts, 10.00lbs / 4.54kg shells, 1890 Model
	  Quick firing gun in deck mount 
	  on centreline aft
	Weight of broadside 229 lbs / 104 kg
	Shells per gun, main battery: 75

Armour:
   - Gun armour:	Face (max)	Other gunhouse (avg)	Barbette/hoist (max)
	Main:	0.71" / 18 mm	      -			      -

Machinery:
	Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines, 
	Direct drive, 2 shafts, 7,457 ihp / 5,563 Kw = 25.00 kts
	Range 1,200nm at 8.00 kts
	Bunker at max displacement = 40 tons (100% coal)
	  Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
	52 - 68

Cost:
	£0.080 million / $0.320 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
	Armament: 29 tons, 5.7 %
	Armour: 4 tons, 0.9 %
	   - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
	   - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
	   - Armament: 4 tons, 0.9 %
	   - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
	   - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
	Machinery: 286 tons, 57.2 %
	Hull, fittings & equipment: 140 tons, 27.9 %
	Fuel, ammunition & stores: 42 tons, 8.4 %
	Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
	Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
	  87 lbs / 40 Kg = 0.8 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
	Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.68
	Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
	Roll period: 8.6 seconds
	Steadiness	- As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
			- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
	Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.15

Hull form characteristics:
	Hull has rise forward of midbreak
	Block coefficient: 0.362
	Length to Beam Ratio: 8.27 : 1
	'Natural speed' for length: 14.26 kts
	Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
	Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
	Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
	Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
	Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
	   - Stem:		10.50 ft / 3.20 m
	   - Forecastle (20 %):	10.50 ft / 3.20 m
	   - Mid (40 %):		10.50 ft / 3.20 m (9.84 ft / 3.00 m aft of break)
	   - Quarterdeck (10 %):	9.84 ft / 3.00 m
	   - Stern:		9.84 ft / 3.00 m
	   - Average freeboard:	10.10 ft / 3.08 m
	Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
	Space	- Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 225.6 %
		- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.6 %
	Waterplane Area: 3,038 Square feet or 282 Square metres
	Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 17 %
	Structure weight / hull surface area: 24 lbs/sq ft or 115 Kg/sq metre
	Hull strength (Relative):
		- Cross-sectional: 0.42
		- Longitudinal: 2.52
		- Overall: 0.50
	Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is extremely poor
	Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2006-09-30 02:06pm

It still places a bunch of expensive heavier guns in a hull which will go down in 1 or 2 hits from a cruiser's 6-incher, while being unable to rapiudly sink or damage a real warship. This design choice is poor, to say the least- save yourself some trouble, and re-allocate into cruisers. An unarmoured little thing like this will not be worth it in combat.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2006-09-30 04:38pm

Thirdfain wrote:It still places a bunch of expensive heavier guns in a hull which will go down in 1 or 2 hits from a cruiser's 6-incher, while being unable to rapiudly sink or damage a real warship. This design choice is poor, to say the least- save yourself some trouble, and re-allocate into cruisers. An unarmoured little thing like this will not be worth it in combat.

I was attempting to create an anti-piracy ship which would serve largely for coastal defense, but I'll take your suggestions under consideration.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2006-09-30 05:11pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
Thirdfain wrote:It still places a bunch of expensive heavier guns in a hull which will go down in 1 or 2 hits from a cruiser's 6-incher, while being unable to rapiudly sink or damage a real warship. This design choice is poor, to say the least- save yourself some trouble, and re-allocate into cruisers. An unarmoured little thing like this will not be worth it in combat.
I was attempting to create an anti-piracy ship which would serve largely for coastal defense, but I'll take your suggestions under consideration.

If you're really worried about small-fry piracy and smuggling and what not, you're probably best going with a slightly upgunned torpedo boat. On something like 2-300 tons you could easily give it a single 3 in deck gun (something like the old timey subs carried), a few heavy machine guns, and a pair of single load torpedo tubes. That should be able to chase down pirates no problem, and with the 3 in guns and torpedos it would also be a useful against a proper warship.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2006-09-30 07:27pm

I'd suggest an unarmoured cruiser or a protected cruiser model; it'd be able to take on almost any pirate ship with ease, and at the same time would be able to carry troops for clearing out bases and it would be a useful commerce raider. Extra mass equals better survivability and cruise duration- especially vital for guarding long-distance trade routes, which you WILL have considering your position.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2006-10-01 02:55pm

When is this game supposed to start? It seems like there are a lot of people that were interested. But looking at the OOBs and the Diplomacy thread it seems like a lot of people aren't interested or active.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2006-10-01 03:20pm

I'm interested, I just can't fuggin' draw. That's a literal, by the way. So I asked around for a map to be made when offers were made, but I'm stuck until that's at least answered.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2006-10-01 03:24pm

doesn't matter, a full OOB is not necessary at this point; just an OOB. I'll post the main game thread tonight.

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2006-10-01 03:27pm

Stormbringer wrote:When is this game supposed to start? It seems like there are a lot of people that were interested. But looking at the OOBs and the Diplomacy thread it seems like a lot of people aren't interested or active.

I have been wondering about that too. There are a number of nations which have either not posted very often or not at all... Unless we get some activity, should we think about turning some nations into NPC's if they arn't active?

SirNitram wrote:I'm interested, I just can't fuggin' draw. That's a literal, by the way. So I asked around for a map to be made when offers were made, but I'm stuck until that's at least answered.

Didn' Igive you an outline of your area? Or do you need m ore than that? I can make a more detailed version if you need.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2006-10-01 07:54pm

Thanks to stormbringer the Blitzen-Class is now a much better design. Its a colonial cruiser weighing in at 1200 tons.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2006-10-01 08:01pm

Crossroads Inc. wrote:
SirNitram wrote:I'm interested, I just can't fuggin' draw. That's a literal, by the way. So I asked around for a map to be made when offers were made, but I'm stuck until that's at least answered.
Didn' Igive you an outline of your area? Or do you need m ore than that? I can make a more detailed version if you need.

I'd be extremely grateful.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2006-10-01 08:43pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Thanks to stormbringer the Blitzen-Class is now a much better design. Its a colonial cruiser weighing in at 1200 tons.

Glad to help.

Cincinnatus · Post by **Cincinnatus** » 2006-10-01 09:02pm

Nitram, I think you made an error in your math when you wrote your OOB.

Thor's Hammer Artillery.

(10,000 troops w/artillery, x6 for 'Elite and Artillery, 700 pts)

10,000 men/200 men per point=50*6 for top of the line troops=300. You should have 400 more points. Alternatively, you could double your number of men and have 100 extra points.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2006-10-03 08:41am

Chewie,

I was looking over the OOBs and your totals for your colonial cruisers doesn't work. I think you forgot to change the numbers when you converted it from the Blitzen.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2006-10-03 12:51pm

Stormbringer wrote:Chewie,

I was looking over the OOBs and your totals for your colonial cruisers doesn't work. I think you forgot to change the numbers when you converted it from the Blitzen.

How much points SHOULD a Sturmbringer be? I thought I converted it right.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2006-10-03 03:08pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:Chewie,

I was looking over the OOBs and your totals for your colonial cruisers doesn't work. I think you forgot to change the numbers when you converted it from the Blitzen.
How much points SHOULD a Sturmbringer be? I thought I converted it right.

It should be 24 points a peice. I'm just mentioning it because you have 25 of them totalling out to 400 points when it should be 600 points.

And further more you missed changing the name and the descriptor blurb.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2006-10-04 08:59pm

Are we going to be starting any time soon?

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2006-10-05 12:34am

The game thread has started, though I admit I don't know what to do...

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2006-10-05 12:43am

CaptainChewbacca wrote:The game thread has started, though I admit I don't know what to do...

<laughs> I'm waiting for someone else to go first

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2006-10-05 01:46am

Been busy the last couple days, but don't think I'm going inactive. I'm working on my OOB, and will be fully in-game by the weekend at the latest.

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2006-10-05 01:47pm

What would everyone think of a "News" thread?

Basically someplace to place infomation that isn't diplomatic or toward another nation speccficlly, but something that may still be important for others to know. I wrote something up last night, but couldn't find a good place for it. Basically as if you read the front page news from someones country... That sort of thing.. Should it still go in diplomacy? or maybe a seperate thread?