So many words, so little intelligence ...

[Darth Wong]

That box was also running two AI's at the same time

Only one of which was confirmed sentient IIRC, and there is no way of knowing whether the simulation was even running in real-time. It could have been running at 1/100 realtime speed and Moriarty would have no way of knowing.

and wasn't optimised for size.

Evidence?

I don't propose making bobblehead androids here, but if the technology needed to run a trekogram can fit into that box I don't see why with some time and effort it can't be miniaturized to squeeze into a head or a even a torso.

I don't think you understand how this works. I don't have to prove it is NOT possible; you have to prove that it IS possible.

[Cao Cao]

Well, here's the size of the device in question:

[Bounty]

I don't think you understand how this works. I don't have to prove it is NOT possible; you have to prove that it IS possible.

I cannot prove it is possible. All I can say is that the one example of a portable trekogram (excluding stuff like the mobile emitter) was the size of a shoebox and if the physical size of the computer could be scaled down another 25%, it would fit into an android.

Not that it matters, anyway. Moriarty himself was contained entirely inside the yellow cube, which would easily fit in a body:

TROI
You mean he never realized that he
hadn't left the Holodeck?

PICARD
(gesturing to the cube)
The simulation is continuing even
now, inside that cube.

BEVERLY
A miniature Holodeck?

DATA
In a way, Doctor. However, it has
no physicality. The program is
continuing... but only within the
computer circuitry.

BARCLAY
As far as Moriarty and the
Countess know, they're half way to
Meles Two by now.

Barclay picks of the TECH cube and inserts it in a slot
inside a larger, briefcase sized piece of hardware with
BLINKIES on it.

BARCLAY
This enhancement module contains
enough active memory to provide
them with a lifetime of
experiences.

[Darth Wong]

Well, here's the size of the device in question:

I don't think it's actually active at that point. It has to be plugged into an XBox-sized device in order to work.

[Darth Wong]

I don't think you understand how this works. I don't have to prove it is NOT possible; you have to prove that it IS possible.

I cannot prove it is possible. All I can say is that the one example of a portable trekogram (excluding stuff like the mobile emitter) was the size of a shoebox and if the physical size of the computer could be scaled down another 25%, it would fit into an android.

And all I can say is that the Federation considers Data an irreplaceable marvel of technology, so you'll need a lot more evidence than that.

Not that it matters, anyway. Moriarty himself was contained entirely inside the yellow cube, which would easily fit in a body:

TROI
You mean he never realized that he
hadn't left the Holodeck?

PICARD
(gesturing to the cube)
The simulation is continuing even
now, inside that cube.

BEVERLY
A miniature Holodeck?

DATA
In a way, Doctor. However, it has
no physicality. The program is
continuing... but only within the
computer circuitry.

BARCLAY
As far as Moriarty and the
Countess know, they're half way to
Meles Two by now.

Barclay picks of the TECH cube and inserts it in a slot
inside a larger, briefcase sized piece of hardware with
BLINKIES on it.

BARCLAY
This enhancement module contains
enough active memory to provide
them with a lifetime of
experiences.

Which makes no sense; the entire processing unit plus associated memory and power source are a miniscule fraction of the size of a memory add-on? It seems much more likely that he was misstating the situation, and that the cube is just a data storage device, with the processing work done by the much larger XBox unit he plugged it into. And for the SECOND time, you have not established that this simulation is even happening in real-time.

[Cao Cao]

I don't think it's actually active at that point. It has to be plugged into an XBox-sized device in order to work.

Yes, this is true; but that's the power source/world info storage. Unless I'm completely mistaken, everything that is Moriarty is in the cube.
Just like Data's head contains what he is, but doesn't operate without being connected to his body.

[Cao Cao]

ghetto edit: Of course, nothing is said if the cube contains the processing power or the larger device.

However, hypothetically speaking, couldn't an android head contain a similar fist-sized storage device and the processing/power source be fitted elsewheere in the body?

[Darth Wong]

I don't think it's actually active at that point. It has to be plugged into an XBox-sized device in order to work.

Yes, this is true; but that's the power source/world info storage. Unless I'm completely mistaken, everything that is Moriarty is in the cube.
Just like Data's head contains what he is, but doesn't operate without being connected to his body.

If the cube is indeed a memory storage device, then the entirety of Moriarty is NOT in the cube. Barclay's explanation (that 90% of what you need is in the little cube and the last 10% is in the comparatively giant XBox) makes no sense.

[Darth Wong]

ghetto edit: Of course, nothing is said if the cube contains the processing power or the larger device.

However, hypothetically speaking, couldn't an android head contain a similar fist-sized storage device and the processing/power source be fitted elsewheere in the body?

Who says the rest of the body isn't already full of stuff, and doesn't have enough spare power to run the CPU? I don't see why we should assume that the designers would have arbitrary space and power to work with. And you are the second person who has repeatedly ignored my point about the fact that this simulation could have been running at 1/10 speed for all we know, thus reducing the processing power required.

[Cao Cao]

Google-fu provides where my faulty memory cannot..

[quote=""Ship in a Bottle" script"]52 CONTINUED: (2)

TROI
You mean he never realized that he
hadn't left the Holodeck?

PICARD
(gesturing to the cube)
The simulation is continuing even
now, inside that cube.

BEVERLY
A miniature Holodeck?

DATA
In a way, Doctor. However, it has
no physicality. The program is
continuing... but only within the
computer circuitry.

BARCLAY
As far as Moriarty and the
Countess know, they're half way to
Meles Two by now.

Barclay picks of the TECH cube and inserts it in a slot
inside a larger, briefcase sized piece of hardware with
BLINKIES on it.

BARCLAY
This enhancement module contains
enough active memory to provide
them with a lifetime of
experiences.

PICARD
They'll live out their lives...
and never know the difference.[/quote]

According to this, at least a minor part of the simulation (Moriarty & the Countess in the shuttle) was included within the holocube, along with at least one sentient AI. And it was running.
Barclay's line seems to indicate that it is occuring in real time.
Finally, the larger device is apparently an add-on to provide the simulation with a "lifetime's worth of experience"

[Darth Wong]

Barclay's line seems to indicate that it is occuring in real time.

No it doesn't. I'm sick of retards such as yourself creatively interpreting dialogue to read all kinds of literal meaning out of half-assed statements. It's like Biblical fundamentalists.

Finally, the larger device is apparently an add-on to provide the simulation with a "lifetime's worth of experience"

Congratulations for being able to parrot lines. Explain how the fuck it should be so many times larger than the rest of the entire system.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

I don't think it's actually active at that point. It has to be plugged into an XBox-sized device in order to work.

Yes, this is true; but that's the power source/world info storage. Unless I'm completely mistaken, everything that is Moriarty is in the cube.
Just like Data's head contains what he is, but doesn't operate without being connected to his body.

In the TNG episode 'disaster', Data's head was disconnected from his body and he continued to function, at least able to still think and talk and interface with part of the ship.

As for the speed of the simulation, didn't Barclay say that as far as they were concerned Moriarty was halfway to Meles II from the Detrian system? According to Memory Alpha it was a type-7 shuttlecraft which is capable of interstellar speeds, but even so to get a reasonable distance given the limitations of a shuttlecraft's warp drive in the time since 'leaving' the Enterprise suggests the simulation is in real-time, assuming Barclay was correct and it was only a short time between activating the module and the scene with Barclay

[Darth Lucifer]

As for the speed of the simulation, didn't Barclay say that as far as they were concerned Moriarty was halfway to Meles II from the Detrian system? According to Memory Alpha it was a type-7 shuttlecraft which is capable of interstellar speeds, but even so to get a reasonable distance given the limitations of a shuttlecraft's warp drive in the time since 'leaving' the Enterprise suggests the simulation is in real-time, assuming Barclay was correct and it was only a short time between activating the module and the scene with Barclay

Something to consider too: I seem to recall Moriarty telling the crew that he could feel the passage of time while his program was not running.

[Cao Cao]

Barclay's line seems to indicate that it is occuring in real time.

No it doesn't. I'm sick of retards such as yourself creatively interpreting dialogue to read all kinds of literal meaning out of half-assed statements. It's like Biblical fundamentalists.

I'm interpreting that line given the available evidence. Moriarty starts in a shuttlecraft in deep space and a short time later he's half way to a planet.
Unless there's evidence suggesting that a large amount of time passed between ending the holodeck program and getting the cube to the larger device, or if there's any evidence at all that it's not in real time then I don't see why my interpretation is so objectionable.

Congratulations for being able to parrot lines. Explain how the fuck it should be so many times larger than the rest of the entire system.

I'm not one to pretend that Treknology makes any sense.
But I suppose it is many times larger because it contains a better powersource along with information on hundreds of worlds, complete star maps and a large database of characters for Moriarty to interact with.

[Darth Wong]

Barclay's line seems to indicate that it is occuring in real time.

No it doesn't. I'm sick of retards such as yourself creatively interpreting dialogue to read all kinds of literal meaning out of half-assed statements. It's like Biblical fundamentalists.

I'm interpreting that line given the available evidence. Moriarty starts in a shuttlecraft in deep space and a short time later he's half way to a planet.
Unless there's evidence suggesting that a large amount of time passed between ending the holodeck program and getting the cube to the larger device, or if there's any evidence at all that it's not in real time then I don't see why my interpretation is so objectionable.

It's objectionable because it presumes that Barclay's every single utterance must be taken as infallible and literal in nature. Holy fuck, are you ever stupid. People DON'T TALK LIKE THAT IN REAL LIFE. People routinely say things that they didn't really put that much thought into, or didn't really bother calculating out to make sure they're literally accurate, etc. But oh no, in Star Trek, every half-assed remark can be analyzed for deeper meaning. As I said, exactly like Biblical fundamentalist retards.

I'm not one to pretend that Treknology makes any sense.
But I suppose it is many times larger because it contains a better powersource along with information on hundreds of worlds, complete star maps and a large database of characters for Moriarty to interact with.

It can't just generate that as you go along? Why do the worlds have to be accurate to the real ones?

[Cao Cao]

It's objectionable because it presumes that Barclay's every single utterance must be taken as infallible and literal in nature. Holy fuck, are you ever stupid. People DON'T TALK LIKE THAT IN REAL LIFE. People routinely say things that they didn't really put that much thought into, or didn't really bother calculating out to make sure they're literally accurate, etc. But oh no, in Star Trek, every half-assed remark can be analyzed for deeper meaning. As I said, exactly like Biblical fundamentalist retards.

Well actually, no it doesn't. Hence the use of "seems to".
Barclay's not infallable, however I see nothing to suggest that the program is not running in real time. So in this particular case I'm saying Barclay's line may have some merit.

It can't just generate that as you go along? Why do the worlds have to be accurate to the real ones?

Well, the don't. But surely they'd have to be convincing, no?
The processing power to randomly generate worlds, planetary systems, cities must be enormous too.

[Darth Wong]

It's objectionable because it presumes that Barclay's every single utterance must be taken as infallible and literal in nature. Holy fuck, are you ever stupid. People DON'T TALK LIKE THAT IN REAL LIFE. People routinely say things that they didn't really put that much thought into, or didn't really bother calculating out to make sure they're literally accurate, etc. But oh no, in Star Trek, every half-assed remark can be analyzed for deeper meaning. As I said, exactly like Biblical fundamentalist retards.

Well actually, no it doesn't. Hence the use of "seems to".
Barclay's not infallable, however I see nothing to suggest that the program is not running in real time. So in this particular case I'm saying Barclay's line may have some merit.

That's because you're a moron. The mere fact that Starfleet can't make their own Datas must mean there is some technical limitation, yet you're still suggesting that I need to provide some evidence of a technical limitation as if it has not already been provided.

It can't just generate that as you go along? Why do the worlds have to be accurate to the real ones?

Well, the don't. But surely they'd have to be convincing, no?

Convincing to an 18th century character? Gee, that ought to be hard.

The processing power to randomly generate worlds, planetary systems, cities must be enormous too.

Why? If the system can already generate a small and completely believable world for Moriarty, why would it be that much harder to generate a larger set of maps, especially when you don't really need to conform to reality? We don't even know how convincing this simulation was, since we never checked back with Moriarty to see if he'd figured it out.

[Cao Cao]

That's because you're a moron. The mere fact that Starfleet can't make their own Datas must mean there is some technical limitation, yet you're still suggesting that I need to provide some evidence of a technical limitation as if it has not already been provided.

Data managing to make Lal on a whim sort of goes against that.
The fact that the Federation has not manufactured androids isn't proof of a lack of capability, it could just as well be due to a lack of interest due to the legal issues concerning putting sentient androids to work against their will.

Convincing to an 18th century character? Gee, that ought to be hard.

I would think even Moriarty would catch on if his made up world had all the detail and realism of Star Wars Galaxies.

Why? If the system can already generate a small and completely believable world for Moriarty, why would it be that much harder to generate a larger set of maps, especially when you don't really need to conform to reality? We don't even know how convincing this simulation was, since we never checked back with Moriarty to see if he'd figured it out.

The holocube probably contains a small and preset set of worlds, good for the short term. But the larger device would contain all that on a larger scale. Plus the power source, of course. I doubt that small cube would be generating it's own power for the long term.

[NecronLord]

Why is it perplexing? A holodeck computer is probably just too big and power-hungry to shoehorn into an android head.

Good god, where to start. This is mind, on the general stupidity of Trek's use of AI, rather than on this example in particular. For one thing, they have no problems interfacing with the mobile emitter, and uploading a machine sapience into it, which suggests that their transfer rates are sufficient to upload and doanload the holoprogram in seconds. If nothing else, this would suggest that they should be able to run small numbers of androids easily, even if they have to do it by making them dependant on a central computer, in the style of the droid control ship, from TPM.

On that topic, the minbendingly absurd numbers given for Voyager's computer given in Concerning Flight for Voyager's general purpouse computer are "simultaneous access to 47 million data channels, transluminal processing at 575 trillion calculations per nanosecond, operational temperature margins from 10 Kelvin to 1,790 Kelvin." which translates to about 5.75 e 23 operations per second. Given that the human brain, is capable of between 1e13 and 1e16 operations per second, according to most (probably unreliable, given that at least one such estimate comes from Dr. Merkle, an alcor director and high king of the nano-assembler lobby, as such, we'll increase that to 1e18, assuming typical federation inefficiency, and that Merkle's figures are too low) it should be possible to run over half a million droids from a central computer like Voyager's. Pulling off the bandwidth necessery to sustsain them would be difficult, of course, and probably provide a hellacious bottleneck, but their computer technology isn't that backwards. Their citizens, on the other hand...

Of course, I don't see why they couldn't build a droid with Barclay's blinky box on its head. Is the Federation so pathetic it can't accept a non-humanoid intelligence? Fuckit, if the TM is to be believed, Medusans are members, and they're some cthonic race of weirdness that drives one insane if you look at them. I mean, I know that Trek races are for the most part bloody forehead ridges, but damnit, it's pretty transparent if the Federation can't take a robot just because its head looks slightly like the one the Alien has, that their 'IDIC' philosophy is just bullshit, and they're scared of anything that doesn't look exactly like them..

For that matter, there was an episode where they found Soong's home, filled with notes and models and things. Lore went on a brief rampage and smashed some stuff, but it's not like he burnt the place down. What do they do? Fly off into the sunset, and we never hear about it again. Even if he was a stereotype of an inventor whose notes sucked ass, a dedicated team of experts couldn't make head nor tail of it? Seems unlikely.

And then there's at least one entire race of androids in TOS, who were programmed to serve humans, in I, Mudd, not to mention numerous other AIs. The Federation has apparently never made any study of any of these. Interestingly, Mudd's droids did appear networked in some way, perhaps there was one or more droid control computers on the planet...

Quite simply, the only reason they can't make droids - not that they'd necesserily be the equal of Star Wars droids, by a long way - is that they're utter morons, who say they want to, but can't get off their lazy asses and do it. Frankly, the only reason Data's unique is that the writers are cowards; think how much more interesting TNG would have been if they'd actually managed to make an entire race of androids, and enslaved it...

[Patrick Degan]

That's because you're a moron. The mere fact that Starfleet can't make their own Datas must mean there is some technical limitation, yet you're still suggesting that I need to provide some evidence of a technical limitation as if it has not already been provided.

Data managing to make Lal on a whim sort of goes against that.
The fact that the Federation has not manufactured androids isn't proof of a lack of capability, it could just as well be due to a lack of interest due to the legal issues concerning putting sentient androids to work against their will.

Let's see, what happened to the Lal experiment again..? Oh, that's right —it failed.

BTW, you may notice that Starfleet had nothing to do with that experiment except trying to keep it from failing, at which Adm. Haftel failed. The attempt was never replicated afterward. That sort of points out the limitations to Federation technology in the area of android manufacture.

[Darth Wong]

That's because you're a moron. The mere fact that Starfleet can't make their own Datas must mean there is some technical limitation, yet you're still suggesting that I need to provide some evidence of a technical limitation as if it has not already been provided.

Data managing to make Lal on a whim sort of goes against that.

As Patrick Degan points out, Lal was a failure.

The fact that the Federation has not manufactured androids isn't proof of a lack of capability, it could just as well be due to a lack of interest due to the legal issues concerning putting sentient androids to work against their will.

So little interest that Data was considered a national treasure and a legal battle was fought over Starfleet's demand to take control of him?

I would think even Moriarty would catch on if his made up world had all the detail and realism of Star Wars Galaxies.

Why? How does he even know what's realistic? He comes from an era when they didn't even know it was possible to make automobiles.

The holocube probably contains a small and preset set of worlds, good for the short term. But the larger device would contain all that on a larger scale. Plus the power source, of course. I doubt that small cube would be generating it's own power for the long term.

You can say all the "probably" clauses that you want, but at the end of the day, there is no real evidence as to the quality of this simulation, nor is there any evidence that Moriarty never saw through it, nor is there any evidence that it was running in real-time. Certainly nothing to contradict the simple fact that the most straightforward explanation for why they can't make more Datas is that they can't make the CPU work and fit into the head.

Good god, where to start. This is mind, on the general stupidity of Trek's use of AI, rather than on this example in particular. For one thing, they have no problems interfacing with the mobile emitter, and uploading a machine sapience into it, which suggests that their transfer rates are sufficient to upload and doanload the holoprogram in seconds. If nothing else, this would suggest that they should be able to run small numbers of androids easily, even if they have to do it by making them dependant on a central computer, in the style of the droid control ship, from TPM.

That idea's already been done, with holo-characters. They obviously want independent androids who aren't reliant upon a controller and whose programs don't degenerate after a few years as the Holo-doc's program did (BTW, who knows how fucked-up Moriarty was after a few years in the cube?).

On that topic, the minbendingly absurd numbers given for Voyager's computer given in Concerning Flight for Voyager's general purpouse computer are "simultaneous access to 47 million data channels, transluminal processing at 575 trillion calculations per nanosecond, operational temperature margins from 10 Kelvin to 1,790 Kelvin." which translates to about 5.75 e 23 operations per second. Given that the human brain, is capable of between 1e13 and 1e16 operations per second, according to most (probably unreliable, given that at least one such estimate comes from Dr. Merkle, an alcor director and high king of the nano-assembler lobby, as such, we'll increase that to 1e18, assuming typical federation inefficiency, and that Merkle's figures are too low) it should be possible to run over half a million droids from a central computer like Voyager's. Pulling off the bandwidth necessery to sustsain them would be difficult, of course, and probably provide a hellacious bottleneck, but their computer technology isn't that backwards. Their citizens, on the other hand...

Does anyone take those numbers seriously? They're so wanktastic and so impossible to reconcile with any of their database searches or computational jobs taking any longer to perform than it takes to punch them in.

[Isolder74]

As for the speed of the simulation, didn't Barclay say that as far as they were concerned Moriarty was halfway to Meles II from the Detrian system? According to Memory Alpha it was a type-7 shuttlecraft which is capable of interstellar speeds, but even so to get a reasonable distance given the limitations of a shuttlecraft's warp drive in the time since 'leaving' the Enterprise suggests the simulation is in real-time, assuming Barclay was correct and it was only a short time between activating the module and the scene with Barclay

Something to consider too: I seem to recall Moriarty telling the crew that he could feel the passage of time while his program was not running.

Not to hard to justify. Basically his program checked the system clock as he was acticated. he then perceived that he has felt the passage of time beofre being activated. its odd that program that was stored would remember that time.

[NecronLord]

That idea's already been done, with holo-characters. They obviously want independent androids who aren't reliant upon a controller

See, stupid? If they want a robot army/workforce, they shouldn't even need sapient ones like copies of Data. There's no reason for low-level droids like battle droids to exhibit the characteristics of sapience, nor's there any real reason to want to mass produce data's brain, unless they want to get a swarm of datas to do all their thinking for them. Which might not be a bad idea...

and whose programs don't degenerate after a few years as the Holo-doc's program did (BTW, who knows how fucked-up Moriarty was after a few years in the cube?).

Think I missed that episode. I also think I'm thankful.

Does anyone take those numbers seriously? They're so wanktastic and so impossible to reconcile with any of their database searches or computational jobs taking any longer to perform than it takes to punch them in.

Sure, why not? Just because their computer hardware happens to be wanktastic in the extreme (incidentally, there's a much smaller but still silly, number for the Ent-D somewhere, yay, consistancy, not something they care for) doesn't mean they can actually use it for anything other than generating trek-o-grams. Their programs are so hilariously bad that they make most of my pet fish look like Alan Turing. Doesn't matter how good their hardware is, GIGO...

I'm saying it's stupid writing that has them not having droids when all the tools are there, not necesserily that they could build droids - I'm amazed those morons build starships whenever I think about it. How the hell did they ever get chemical rockets to work without all exploding like the Challenger? Let alone anti-matter.

[Darth Wong]

There's no reason for low-level droids like battle droids to exhibit the characteristics of sapience, nor's there any real reason to want to mass produce data's brain, unless they want to get a swarm of datas to do all their thinking for them. Which might not be a bad idea...

There are some major sociological reasons for Starfleet to want mass-produced sentient droids:

1. Most of the Federation's population has no interest in military service. That's presumably why Starfleet appears to be overwhelmingly human, despite the lack of any apparent barriers to non-human entry.
2. Most of Earth's human population is spoiled and self-indulgent. That's presumably why Starfleet Academy is basically a liberal arts college with saluting.
3. Most of Starleet seems to be officers, not enlisted men. This is consistent with a spoiled, self-indulgent society: everyone wants to be a chief, nobody wants to be an indian.

Given those conditions, the incentive for having sentient androids is obvious: you will have a ready-made force of recruitable enlisted men to do all the things that your Starfleet Academy graduates don't want to do.

and whose programs don't degenerate after a few years as the Holo-doc's program did (BTW, who knows how fucked-up Moriarty was after a few years in the cube?).

Think I missed that episode. I also think I'm thankful.

They had to go back to the guy who created the Holo-Doc program (who, as usual in Star Trek, was a genius but also a massively maladjusted asshole) to get him a new lease on life.

Does anyone take those numbers seriously? They're so wanktastic and so impossible to reconcile with any of their database searches or computational jobs taking any longer to perform than it takes to punch them in.

Sure, why not? Just because their computer hardware happens to be wanktastic in the extreme (incidentally, there's a much smaller but still silly, number for the Ent-D somewhere, yay, consistancy, not something they care for) doesn't mean they can actually use it for anything other than generating trek-o-grams. Their programs are so hilariously bad that they make most of my pet fish look like Alan Turing. Doesn't matter how good their hardware is, GIGO...

Anybody remember the Enterprise-D taking several hours to do a database search of Starfleet records on historical incidents of crewers going insane and showering with their clothes on?

I'm saying it's stupid writing that has them not having droids when all the tools are there, not necesserily that they could build droids - I'm amazed those morons build starships whenever I think about it. How the hell did they ever get chemical rockets to work without all exploding like the Challenger? Let alone anti-matter.

I'm convinced the Federation is just like a smarter version of the Pakleds. They stole or copied technology from the Vulcans and then just tinkered with it until they got it to do what they wanted. They don't entirely understand what they're doing.

[NecronLord]

There are some major sociological reasons for Starfleet to want mass-produced sentient droids:

1. Most of the Federation's population has no interest in military service. That's presumably why Starfleet appears to be overwhelmingly human, despite the lack of any apparent barriers to non-human entry.
2. Most of Earth's human population is spoiled and self-indulgent. That's presumably why Starfleet Academy is basically a liberal arts college with saluting.
3. Most of Starleet seems to be officers, not enlisted men. This is consistent with a spoiled, self-indulgent society: everyone wants to be a chief, nobody wants to be an indian.

Hey, it's more stupid writing. Told you it was a perplexing piece of stupid, didn't I? IIRC, Rodenberry's reason for all the ensigns in TNG was that he didn't think enlistees would be able to hack it in space...

That said, good point about their poor military recruitment. Presumably, also, sapient androids would be a lot better. But if they're going down that road, they'd be better just designing sapient ship-minds and swarms of non-sapient maint and kill-bots. for crews.

Given those conditions, the incentive for having sentient androids is obvious: you will have a ready-made force of recruitable enlisted men to do all the things that your Starfleet Academy graduates don't want to do.

Like work.

They had to go back to the guy who created the Holo-Doc program (who, as usual in Star Trek, was a genius but also a massively maladjusted asshole) to get him a new lease on life.

Allow me to quote Futurama's Hermes Conrad. "I didn't want to knoowowow that!"

How come all the other holo-docs are still working then. Did he propagate the patch or something?

Anybody remember the Enterprise-D taking several hours to do a database search of Starfleet records on historical incidents of crewers going insane and showering with their clothes on?

Clearly, really sucky programming. I mean, they can handle the information demands of reassembling people on the transporter pad.

Presumably their historical database search consists of first checking the input for profanity, and then spell checking it, and then running it through a filing system composed at Utopia Planetia with the aid of a dartboard. Same with any other system that's required for any kind of plot point, really. They just don't think it through 'it's easy to scan a human body in minute detail, shitting all over Heisenberg in the process... how long should it take to preform a search of mission logs and scientific journal entries?' just doesn't cross their mind. Instead they seem to presume the Enterprise is using BBC basics.

I'm convinced the Federation is just like a smarter version of the Pakleds. They stole or copied technology from the Vulcans and then just tinkered with it until they got it to do what they wanted. They don't entirely understand what they're doing.

The only thing is, the Vulcans also suck. Presumably they just like being second class citizens and slaves (see the Mirror Universe, where they manage to get enslaved by Cochrane Era Earth. Seriously, how the hell did they pull that off? "Oh shit, they might hurt us. Bending over and dropping our pants is the only logical course of action!")...

Besides, the Pakleds aren't so bad. Sure, they sound and look retarded, but they seem to manage to get around without lurching from crisis to crisis like a severely inebriated puppy.