Would thaleron devices work against SW ground forces

mr friendly guy · Post by **mr friendly guy** » 2006-10-05 11:52pm

No I am not talking about the giant wank ship scimitar. I am referring to that small device Shinzon's stooge used to kill the Romulan senate.

If someone had the ability to produce several of them, either deploying them similar to mines or adjust them so they can be launched from guns and then activating when they hit the ground, would these be useful against SW ground forces.

By ground forces I am referring to both Imperial stormtroopers, New Republic forces including Jedi, Yuzhan Vong forces etc.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-10-06 12:26am

Completely unknown of effectiveness.

Literally we have the hand held device used against unguarded civilians, and we have a ship that requires a massive power up time to use it on a starship.

The best one can guess is it would make an interesting terrorist device.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-10-06 01:00am

Its observed effective kill radius was only a dozen metres or so. It may be lethal at longer range but we have no evidence of that. There are plenty of weapons out there which are lethal at that range already, without any of the mysteries associated with the red thaleron device (such as whether it works through armour).

l33telboi · Post by **l33telboi** » 2006-10-06 03:05am

It's been a while since i saw Nemesis, so take everything i say with a grain of salt.

Ghost Rider wrote:and we have a ship that requires a massive power up time to use it on a starship.

When i saw the movie i got the impression that the Thalaron weapon on the Scimitar was supposed to be used against planets. If i remember correctly Shinzon decides at one point to go bust up Earth, right?

It has a rediculous power-up time, agreed, but wasn't it supposed to be used while the ship was cloaked?

Ghost Rider wrote:Completely unknown of effectiveness.

Well we saw an example being used against the Romulan senate, combined with the "microscopic amount could wipe out everybody on the E-E" (ridiculous, i know) statement, would provide for some parameters you could work within.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2006-10-06 03:44am

Possibly.

Now I think it would be cool as to have the NRDF purchase teh technology equip a few MonCals with these weapons during the Vong war.

Be funny to watch the Vong come charging in...only to have every living thing on their wanktastic bioships crumble into dust.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-10-06 09:00am

l33telboi wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:and we have a ship that requires a massive power up time to use it on a starship.
When i saw the movie i got the impression that the Thalaron weapon on the Scimitar was supposed to be used against planets. If i remember correctly Shinzon decides at one point to go bust up Earth, right?

It has a rediculous power-up time, agreed, but wasn't it supposed to be used while the ship was cloaked?

Right, because in SOD terms...it took all that time for what? Dramatic effect?

The fucking ship stood there, extended it's vanes, and was slowly powering up, for something far fucking smaller in comparison to the population of Earth...it's original target?

l33telboi wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:Completely unknown of effectiveness.
Well we saw an example being used against the Romulan senate, combined with the "microscopic amount could wipe out everybody on the E-E" (ridiculous, i know) statement, would provide for some parameters you could work within.

Ah, I see...

1. Like I fucking said dipshit we saw the hand held device against unguarded civilians. Meaning who the fuck knows what it will do against armor or such not.

2. You do understand that microscopic is about as helpful as tiny? Do you care to quantify what it is, or are you just making a post to blather?

Post by **Surlethe** » 2006-10-06 10:45am

Ghost Rider wrote:Right, because in SOD terms...it took all that time for what? Dramatic effect?

The fucking ship stood there, extended it's vanes, and was slowly powering up, for something far fucking smaller in comparison to the population of Earth...it's original target?

I simply assumed that the "thaleron-gun" had only one power setting, and it would use the same power against the Enterprise as against the Earth.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2006-10-06 10:59am

If it's radiation, and it only reacts to organic tissue, why wouldn't fully armored stormtroopers be able to handle it? Especially radtroopers?

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2006-10-06 11:03am

Besides, wasn't the Scimitar already battered at that point?

In the SWverse, a bounty hunter can get himself a not-too-big warhead that yields in the gigatons and is capable of disintegratifying asteroids. Who gives a crap about thaleron? It would be handy, but nothing special in the grand scheme of devastating SW ground warfare weapons. And battle droids would be immune.

But hey, if a thaleron weapon that can fit in a Scimtar can devastate Earth, it might have interesting applications in the SWverse. An unshielded world needing a quick depopulating? Just sent an ISD armed with a thaleron weapon, poof, problem solved! Without the added messiness of turbolasers.

Silver Jedi · Post by **Silver Jedi** » 2006-10-06 12:27pm

Shroom Man 777 wrote:B An unshielded world needing a quick depopulating? Just sent an ISD armed with a thaleron weapon, poof, problem solved! Without the added messiness of turbolasers.

Why go through all the trouble to add this completely new weapon system with only one real practical purpose, when the ISD can already carry ouyt the mission in a similar amount of time?

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2006-10-06 12:31pm

So what if it works or not? It's still a retarded piece of treknology. What's wrong with using a simple grenade? That would work and would almost certainly be more cost-effective. So as for whether it would be "effective" or "would it be an effective weapon" - well... once you take cost effectiveness into account, those are two different things.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-10-06 12:33pm

Silver Jedi wrote:
Shroom Man 777 wrote:B An unshielded world needing a quick depopulating? Just sent an ISD armed with a thaleron weapon, poof, problem solved! Without the added messiness of turbolasers.
Why go through all the trouble to add this completely new weapon system with only one real practical purpose, when the ISD can already carry ouyt the mission in a similar amount of time?

A thalaron weapon leaves the infrastructure intact. Just send down a few thousand stormtroopers with vacuum cleaners and you've got a pristine depopulated planet

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2006-10-06 12:38pm

How exactly was the radiation supposed to 'kill' the E-E anyways? Weren't all the exposed bulkheads sealed off? How is the radiation supposed to pentrate the shielding? Trek magic?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-10-06 12:42pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:How exactly was the radiation supposed to 'kill' the E-E anyways? Weren't all the exposed bulkheads sealed off? How is the radiation supposed to pentrate the shielding? Trek magic?

There are plenty of types of radiation which seem to pass right through shields in Star Trek.

Ritterin Sophia · Post by **Ritterin Sophia** » 2006-10-06 12:44pm

Empire already does that, that's why Radtroopers exist.

Ritterin Sophia · Post by **Ritterin Sophia** » 2006-10-06 12:45pm

That was supposed to be directed towards Bounty's post.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2006-10-06 12:45pm

Darth Wong wrote:There are plenty of types of radiation which seem to pass right through shields in Star Trek.

True. It would've made a great anti-climax, though, for the big bad rad gun to go off and splash harmlessly off the E-E.

l33telboi · Post by **l33telboi** » 2006-10-06 02:07pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:How exactly was the radiation supposed to 'kill' the E-E anyways? Weren't all the exposed bulkheads sealed off? How is the radiation supposed to pentrate the shielding? Trek magic?

The E-E was pretty beat up by the time Shinzon decided to use the thalaron weapon, plenty of hull ruptures (who knows, maybe forcefields aren't all that good against radiation) and from what i can remember, the shields were down also.

I doubt the weapon was supposed to be used against starships though, the high charge-up time would make it kinda unwieldly in that respect, and while i don't know if it needed to, the Scimitar was stationary during the whole power-up phase too, making it even worse against starships.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2006-10-06 03:35pm

The question of course is the penetrative properties of Thalaron. For example, particles like neutrinos can penetrate matter very easily, but given the energetic nature of Thalaron, I have serious doubts it has very good pentratrabilty since it will definitely interact with the atoms in the hull surface in some way. Even photons can be stopped with sufficient shielding and dissipated and ship hulls should be, and ought to be, able to stop most energetic radiation else well, the ship isn't meant for habitation.

If that is the case, it is then possible to design proper shielding for individuals. After all, even astronaut suits have lead shielding built in.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-10-06 03:41pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:How exactly was the radiation supposed to 'kill' the E-E anyways? Weren't all the exposed bulkheads sealed off? How is the radiation supposed to pentrate the shielding? Trek magic?

Plot magic. According to Crusher, no shield could stop the weapon, because the Scimitar - a massive battlecruiser built in secret by mine slaves with enough weapons to destroy a small fleet, multiple layers of shielding, a "perfect" cloak and a weapon that can kill all life on a planet - wasn't wanked up quite enough.

mr friendly guy · Post by **mr friendly guy** » 2006-10-06 08:10pm

From the Wars perspective they already got technology which does the same thing for ground troops. But what about the Trek perspective? We know their NDF weapons won't do much against armoured storm troopers, so will it be better for them to share tech and develop Thaleron emitters to use against invading SW armies.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-10-06 08:19pm

Actually we haven't the foggiest how NDF would fare against stormtrooper armour. We now NDF sucks against high-density materials/metals and that's all. As stormie armour can't be all that high density (otherwise it would be too heavy) and we have (to my knowledge) no idea what it's made of, wether or not and if yes, to what degree NDF would work on it is completely up for grabs.
As is the effects of thalaron radiation, the only observed use of which was against unarmoured humans at point blank range.

Thag · Post by **Thag** » 2006-10-06 09:07pm

When they released the first device in the senate chamber, do we know if it escaped the main room into adjacent areas? If a small amount can sterilize something with the internal area of a large starship (the E-E comment), then it should have carved a decent chunk out of the Romulan goverment complex, if not the surrounding area. If it didn't, then that would mean that Thaleron radiation can be contained by basic walls, windows, and door seals.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2006-10-07 02:44am

Batman wrote:Actually we haven't the foggiest how NDF would fare against stormtrooper armour. We now NDF sucks against high-density materials/metals and that's all. As stormie armour can't be all that high density (otherwise it would be too heavy) and we have (to my knowledge) no idea what it's made of, wether or not and if yes, to what degree NDF would work on it is completely up for grabs.
As is the effects of thalaron radiation, the only observed use of which was against unarmoured humans at point blank range.

I would guess that since the Empire uses special Radtroopers to secure areas affected by neutron bombing that regular stormie armor isn't as good against it (as I originally might have guessed).

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2006-10-07 05:01pm

Remeber back to the senate scene. The Female Romulan who set it off had just walked out of the room a few seconds before yet she clearly wasn't killed by it.