Vorlons at the Battle of Endor

[Ender]

Wong, I'm saying that according to Base Delta Zero an ISD can decimate a planet. And using a hyperdrive to slam a large enough mass into a planet would have nearly the same effect.

Only in the most broad terms.

Also if you used the energy ratings given in the TL commetaries, they you find the Death Star to put out at least 2.4x10^32 Tera Watts(Kruger, this is also called TW, as opposed to PW which would be PetaWatts) multiply that by 2 and divide by the average firepower of half of the empire's navy, then you would get the number of ships they have, and assuming the average ship is an ISD then they would have an ISD population ranging in the millions of trillions, more than enough to patrol and control a galaxy of 100 billion stars, what possible use would a Death Star be?

Ignoring the huge leaps in logic present in this little argument, a single strategic weapon as oppossed to thousands of smaller ships is better in terms of logistics, control, defense, and psychological impact.

Vorlons are not piss weak in an energy state, the only thing that can kill a vorlon is another vorlon or another firstone, nothing the security personnel could do could stop one vorlon.

Your claim is contradicted by published, canon B5 material. I gave a link and page number to it before.

The first Vorlon vs Shadow battle in the series would not have held up to reference standards, therefore I used the episode name so you could look up information on that episode if you so choose, you did not.

You gave an episode name, you did not post the work behind it or even link to the source of the work.

Shield does encircle the planet, shield does not encircle the planet, shield does encircle the planet, please will someone make this clear.(And if you really say that the PShield was in the book I believe you)

If the Shield was said to be planetary in the book, it works. I figured that they had to land inside the shield radius, but it did not cover the entire planet.

Ender, please show that a jumppoint cannot open inside a shielded ship.

Bullshit dumbfuck. You made the claim, onus is on you have to prove it, not me to disprove it.

A SW shield is not in any way based in hSpace, so a jump point could form within it, you say yourself that an object going through said shield must be grounded, thus meaning that said shield is based in particle fields or electro-magnetics.

No, I said beings attempting to pass through it must be grounded. Big difference.

Jump points close, vorlon ships have the ability to change their appearence at will.

We saw the ability of Vorlon ships to drastically alter their shape... when?

[Coalition]

*sigh*
Provide a single sliver of proof that a jump point can bypass shields.

Other then that we are in agreement.

From everything that has been shown about hyperspace, figure it as literally another 3-D space 'beside' our own. Time travels at the same speed in both dimensions, and they have a point to point correlation between the two. In hyperspace, the points are closer together.

So the shield would have to extend into hyperspace to prevent the Vorlon fleets from simply traveling through hyperspace, past the shield, and jumping out inside the superstructure.

The Vorlons might not even have to track the Death star in realspace either. The main reactor might have enough of a gravity silhouette so they just follow the gravity hole, and jump out when they get close.

But that is assuming they will be able to exit out that close anyway.

So the following has to occur for the Vorlons to even have a chance:

1) The DS shields don't extend into hyperspace, so the Vorlons stay in hyperspace until inside the structure

2) The DS main reactor has to be small enough so that the Vorlons aren't simply stuck in hyperspace, falling towards the gravity core

Even then, the Vorlons still die when the main reactor blows.

Sounds like something Kosh might do, i.e. pilot the Planet Killer into the core, and destroy it, then hide a fraction of his essence in someone else (Sheridan). He would look at the Death star, realize what it meant, and realize what he had to do. Then do it.

[Darth Wong]

And they can open a jump point in a region of space which is so massively polluted by the DS jammers that space-time itself is distorted, and starfighters are reduced to a fraction of their normal mobility? Since when have they ever opened a jump point in such brutal conditions?

[Darth Wong]

PS. Much of the Death Star's mass is complex, ie- imaginary numbers, which means that it's literally at 90 degrees to reality. It would not be at all unexpected to see something that looks like a godawful churning nightmare from hyperspace, and scarier than it looks in realspace.

[Durandal]

Just out of curiosity, does the phrase "90 degrees to reality" refer to the phase angle of the mass?

[Vendetta]

In space - The Vorlons are fucked. Horribly. With broken bottles. Their planetkiller beam is the only thing nearly on a par with an ISD's weaponry.

On the ground, it might well be A Different Matter™. As has been mentioned, the beings of Star Wars haven't been programmed with how to percieve a Vorlon.

There's a default state for that.

You don't see anything at all.

(Witness Londo, the Centauri were never programmed either, and he can't see Kosh at all when he leaves his encounter suit at one point in S2).

The Vorlons might be able to sneak in undetected and lower the shield, but their space force will have been annihilated long ago, so it won't much matter.

[Vendetta]

How is this going to let it get through the shield? I don't know what you've heard elsewhere, but this shield was globe-encircling. See the ROTJ novelization (and ask why the fuck they needed the shield deactivated to land on the moon).

I'm guessing most people take the shape of the shield to be the one that appears on the Rebels' projection in their briefing in the film.

[Vympel]

I'm guessing most people take the shape of the shield to be the one that appears on the Rebels' projection in their briefing in the film.

Except that would make deactivation of the shield totally irrelevant, would it not?

[Ender]

From everything that has been shown about hyperspace, figure it as literally another 3-D space 'beside' our own. Time travels at the same speed in both dimensions, and they have a point to point correlation between the two. In hyperspace, the points are closer together.

So the shield would have to extend into hyperspace to prevent the Vorlon fleets from simply traveling through hyperspace, past the shield, and jumping out inside the superstructure.

Proof please. I want one single shred of proof. One time that it was ever stated in any game material, novel, show, movie, or drunken bar napkin scribble from JMS saying that shields do not stop the formation of jump points.

The rest of your post is irrelevent until you post the proof.

[Ender]

In space - The Vorlons are fucked. Horribly. With broken bottles. Their planetkiller beam is the only thing nearly on a par with an ISD's weaponry.

On the ground, it might well be A Different Matter™. As has been mentioned, the beings of Star Wars haven't been programmed with how to percieve a Vorlon.

There's a default state for that.

You don't see anything at all.

(Witness Londo, the Centauri were never programmed either, and he can't see Kosh at all when he leaves his encounter suit at one point in S2).

The Vorlons might be able to sneak in undetected and lower the shield, but their space force will have been annihilated long ago, so it won't much matter.

Their eyes may not pick it up, but the sensors in a Stormie suits sure as hell should pick them up. It's a blob of energy. It has to register on some wavelength.

[Darth Wong]

Just out of curiosity, does the phrase "90 degrees to reality" refer to the phase angle of the mass?

Yes, obviously referring to a complex number polar representation.

[Durandal]

Just out of curiosity, does the phrase "90 degrees to reality" refer to the phase angle of the mass?

Yes, obviously referring to a complex number polar representation.

I haven't done that stuff in years ...

[Slartibartfast]

The Vorlons can't take out the shield by blowing the generator, PERIOD.

You have to ask permission to get through the shield before you can blow the generator.