US military vs Middle Earth

[Deimos Anomaly]

A large portal appears in the middle of the Atlantic ocean, it is two miles in diameter, centered on the water's surface (extending a mile below and above the surface) enabling any surface ship or submarine to sail through, and also aircraft to fly through.

It leads to the ocean off the coast of middle Earth (look at the maps you get in the LoTR books, the whole west is sea).

The US launches an all out assault to conquer middle Earth. They can commit everything they have currently (as of July 30th 2002) for overseas operations.

This includes the Air Force, Navy, Army, Marine Corps etc. plus any special forces.

It does not include forces which would not normally be used in overseas action such as the National Guard.

It is to be assumed that 9/11 and the war in Afghanistan did not happen, so any forces currently tied up there are free to be used in this assault.

The reason the US is doing this is irrelevant so I don't want to hear any "They would never do that".

So, can they take it? Or what?

[Mr Bean]

Orcs?
Met Tanks

OMG Slaugher does not BEGIN to define how bad this would go for middle earth, Only the charater shielded would survive

[Crazy_Vasey]

Talk about a mismatch. This is like having Lennox Lewis Vs. a 12 year old.

[Lusankya]

How about if Sauron won?

What exactly does that ring of power do? Does anyone know? Or is it just powerful?

In any case, I'd quite like to be able to go to Middle Earth, just so long as Aragorn was still alive (or Legolas). mmmmmmm.....

[Deimos Anomaly]

Here's the tactical plan I drew up for what I would do, when this was being debated on SB:



The blue lines are deployment routes of amphibious assault ships. The green lines are deployment of carriers. (Each carrier is with it's associated BG, though those aren't shown). The purple route is the deployment of a nuke sub, for use only as a last resort.

Those Wasp-class LHDs carry 1,894 marines (each).

They can carry a mixed bag of aircraft/landing craft depending on what their mission is. Some common configurations:

6 AV-8B Harrier attack planes
4 AH-1W SuperCobra attack helicopter
12 CH-46 Sea Knight helicopters
9 CH-53 Sea Stallion helicopters
4 UH-1N Huey helicopters

OR

6 AV-8B Harrier attack planes
12 CH-46 Sea Knight helicopters
9 CH-53 Sea Stallion helicopters

OR

Assault
42 CH-46 Sea Knight helicopters

OR

Sea Control
20 AV-8B Harrier attack planes
6 ASW helicopters
Landing Craft 2 LCU Landing Craft, Utility or
3 LCAC Landing Craft, Air Cushion or
6 LCM-8 Landing Craft, Mechanized or
40 AAV Amphibious Assault Vehicle [normal] or
61 AAV Amphibious Assault Vehicle [stowed]

[Next of Kin]

How about if Sauron won?

What exactly does that ring of power do? Does anyone know? Or is it just powerful ?

The ring of power is pretty much Sauron. Ideally his ring would control the nine, the seven, and the three. Through those other rings he would control the other races of middle earth.

[Master of Ossus]

They could conquer Middle Earth. They could not defeat the Valar and the lands across the Sea.

[Nova Andromeda]

--You can bet your @$$ the Valar would get involved. After it became apparent how agressive the Earth forces were they would anhilate the U.S. invasion force and if they were enraged enough they might also anhilate Earth. You have to remember the Valar created a sun and moon, can raise and level mountain ranges at will, etc. In addition, reality in middle Earth is quite different from that on Earth. Here on Earth there is no evidence of people having a soul, but in middle earth the races do and it is an integral part of life. It is clear Earth science doesn't fully explain reality in middle earth and is missing entire fields. That is fatal problem for Earth forces if we assume the powers of both sides works in both realms.

[Nova Andromeda]

--You can bet your @$$ the Valar would get involved. After it became apparent how agressive the Earth forces were they would anhilate the U.S. invasion force and if they were enraged enough they might also anhilate Earth. You have to remember the Valar created a sun and moon, can raise and level mountain ranges at will, etc. In addition, reality in middle Earth is quite different from that on Earth. Here on Earth there is no evidence of people having a soul, but in middle earth the races do and it is an integral part of life. It is clear Earth science doesn't fully explain reality in middle earth and is missing entire fields. That is fatal problem for Earth forces if we assume the powers of both sides works in both realms.

[lgot]

The Valar will be involved, like they still did in the third age.
Attacking by that huge sea, would be like : Here is the troops. here the tsuname and bye bye.
By land ? How many tanks can resist a earthquake or anything alike thing like some old powers of Middle Earth can still do. After all, the US Army would have no protection from magic like Elfs and Orcs have...

[Master of Ossus]

The Americans would be completely incapable of fighting the Valar. They would be able to conquer the realms that are visited during the books, but not the land across the sea.

[lgot]

Galadriel alone could convice the humans to not do it anymore and return home.
if our humans didnt have a inside help - like Sauron aiding with intention to make them destroy the elfs to later have the humans leaders already corrupted and working for him - they would be totally lost in Middle Earth.

[Smiling Bandit]

The Americans would be completely incapable of fighting the Valar. They would be able to conquer the realms that are visited during the books, but not the land across the sea.

We may not be able to defeat the valar, since the extent of their power is not really known. I point out that the Valar will not at all get involved. They would not help Feanor hunt down Morgoth, did not stop Morgoth until he nearly conquered the last of the Elves and free Men in Middle earth, and then only when begged by a fugitive Middle-Earther. They don't like interfering, it is obvious. They also did nothing to stop Sauron. In fact, they merely gave him a warning.

And I simply refuse to use the *such and such* would not work there department excuse.

[lgot]

We may not be able to defeat the valar, since the extent of their power is not really known. I point out that the Valar will not at all get involved. They would not help Feanor hunt down Morgoth, did not stop Morgoth until he nearly conquered the last of the Elves and free Men in Middle earth, and then only when begged by a fugitive Middle-Earther. They don't like interfering, it is obvious. They also did nothing to stop Sauron. In fact, they merely gave him a warning.

And I simply refuse to use the *such and such* would not work there department excuse.

They do not like interference, but They do.
They send Gandalf and the other four to prepare for the end of the age.
About Morgoth :He is a Valar. That was enough interference. And he still out of the action because of them.
They do not interfere with ME affairs unless it goes against what they wanted: The ages passing by. Dont you think the human -people from other universe - Isnt something that endanger their own universe and their precise age passing ?
Of course it would. The Valar would interfere there.

[Gil Hamilton]

We may not be able to defeat the valar, since the extent of their power is not really known. I point out that the Valar will not at all get involved. They would not help Feanor hunt down Morgoth, did not stop Morgoth until he nearly conquered the last of the Elves and free Men in Middle earth, and then only when begged by a fugitive Middle-Earther. They don't like interfering, it is obvious. They also did nothing to stop Sauron. In fact, they merely gave him a warning.

And I simply refuse to use the *such and such* would not work there department excuse.

Not to be blunt, but the Valar did quite alot in the Silmarillion, specifically in the Valaquenta and the Quenta Silmarillion, not to mention significant actions during the Akallabêth.
Plus, they did take steps to fight Sauron. That's the reason they sent to the Istari to Middle Earth.

[Sea Skimmer]

It does not include forces, which would not normally be used in overseas action such as the National Guard.

The problume with that is its a contradiction in its self, the national guard is integrated into the Army and air forces plans at all levels, and are routinely deployed overseas even in peace time. Assest that are needed for even the slightest brush fire have been trasnfered to the NG and ANG to save money.
They are normally, and constantly used in overseas actions. A whole division spent time in Bosnia, and 1/3 of the USAF aircraft currently in Kuwait are ANG units. A number of Army divisions are missing brigades that in war are added on from Army reserve or NG units.

So there in.

Anything that doesn’t need magic to kill is dead, very quickly.

[Smiling Bandit]

Sending five wisemen does not count as heavy military intervention. Aside from which, why the hell would they bother themselves? This is just an internal conflict between men, albeit a rather odd one. They have *NEVER* involved themselves when the entire world was not threatened (well, after it was more or less finished, there were some transportation issues and they occaisionally "slum it".) We aren't using any dark magic, we're no worse than any other kingdom, so why should they care?

[lgot]

No one said the Istari are military intervention, even if in the end Gandalf was main leader in the gathering of the armies and defeat of Saruman.
And they did interventions almost everytime their creations are in danger of destruction or breking their rules. The human invasion of other universe surely is under this cathegory.
But you do not need them to defeat a invasion in Middle Earth. Sauron, Elrond and Galadriel are more than enough for this.