When can we expect Wong's Revelations?

[Vendetta]

IMO you are clearly delusional, if you think TPM was better

It was shorter, and a far higher proportion of screentime was spent where things Actually Happened.

There are the same number of action sequences in AOTC, and they last about the same amount of time, but the interludes are longer, and the 'acting' on the part of Christiansen is a painful thing to behold. (and it's hard to believe from this film that Natalie Portman is the same person who was in Leon).

The lightsabre fight pales compared to the one in TPM, and Yoda the Badass™ is just faintly silly.

And then there are the Winged Monkeys and their megaman level, Just Say No kids...

On the whole, it offers far less entertainment-per-minute than any other Star Wars movie. Think back to the very first movie, You have 30 or so minutes of exposition, and then for the entire rest of the screen time, the heroes are running around fighting stormtroopers, TIEs, shooting shit and blowing shit up, and there's only about a 10 minute break between escaping the Death Star and going back to blow it up.

In AOTC, there's about TWO FUCKING HOURS of exposition, rather a lot of which is unnecessary (remember, Han and Leia's relationship was developed whilst STUFF WAS HAPPENING, and was infinitely less painful than the one in Clones) and then you get aboutr 40 minutes of actual action.

Hell, in TPM there's almost NO pause for breath, it flows straight from action scene to action scene, Even in the exposition in the beginning you get battledroids sliced up. there's about a 20 minute break on Tattooine and about 15 more on Coruscant, but in between that they hit you with the Podrace, and then you're off into a three part battle, with the finest 'sabre fight in 'Wars (though the swordfight in Die Another Day has more energy and feeling).

Lucas needs, if not another director to put his stories on film and keep the characters interesting, at least an editor with a bit of clout to keep him on the straight and narrow.

[Vympel]

IMO you are clearly delusional, if you think TPM was better

It was shorter, and a far higher proportion of screentime was spent where things Actually Happened.

Yeah, really cool things like fish people with bad accents fighting dumb droids on a teletubbies-esque battlefield, endless meetings, and lots of Jar-Jar. Jeezus Christ on a pogo stick are you SERIOUS?

There are the same number of action sequences in AOTC, and they last about the same amount of time, but the interludes are longer, and the 'acting' on the part of Christiansen is a painful thing to behold. (and it's hard to believe from this film that Natalie Portman is the same person who was in Leon).

AOTC does not have a child actor in a lead role, and Ewan McGregor is actually USED in the film. He's a frigging prop in TPM.

The lightsabre fight pales compared to the one in TPM, and Yoda the Badass™ is just faintly silly.

The TPM lightsabre fight was a flashy sperm-soaked exercise in over-compensation. The AOTC lightsabre fights were closer to the originals, less flashy, and Lucas tried new things- where Dooku and Anakin's sabres are used as screen wipes was a thing of beauty.

The only thing that saved the TPM lightsabre fight from being utterly over-the-top was Qui-Gonn's sensible style.

And then there are the Winged Monkeys and their megaman level, Just Say No kids...

Oh of course, this makes the undersea fish chase and battle of the teletubbies with Jar-Jar's idiocy and the ludicrous deus ex machina of an entire army shutting down because of the fluke destruction of one ship far superior. Just Say No indeed

On the whole, it offers far less entertainment-per-minute than any other Star Wars movie. Think back to the very first movie, You have 30 or so minutes of exposition, and then for the entire rest of the screen time, the heroes are running around fighting stormtroopers, TIEs, shooting shit and blowing shit up, and there's only about a 10 minute break between escaping the Death Star and going back to blow it up.

AOTC action blew the shit out of TPM. Pod Race compared to the Coruscant chase? No contest. Qui-Gonn fighting Darth Maul-who-speaks-two-lines-in-the-whole film compared to Obi-Wan versus Boba Fett? Tell me which you enjoyed more. Clonetroopers versus Seperatists? Oh no the Gungans were far more entertaining

In AOTC, there's about TWO FUCKING HOURS of exposition, rather a lot of which is unnecessary (remember, Han and Leia's relationship was developed whilst STUFF WAS HAPPENING, and was infinitely less painful than the one in Clones) and then you get aboutr 40 minutes of actual action.

TPM was infinitely worse in terms of dialog, cheesy lines, Jar Jar, and the interminable number of meetings. Please explain how to tell the story of the fall of the Republic without 'exposition'. And to claim that it takes up two hours is patently absurd.

Hell, in TPM there's almost NO pause for breath, it flows straight from action scene to action scene, Even in the exposition in the beginning you get battledroids sliced up. there's about a 20 minute break on Tattooine and about 15 more on Coruscant, but in between that they hit you with the Podrace, and then you're off into a three part battle, with the finest 'sabre fight in 'Wars (though the swordfight in Die Another Day has more energy and feeling).

Oh yes I was on the edge of my seat during TPM. A childish pod race filled with cheesy lines, followed by a childish battle filled with cheesy lines, all wrapped up with a deus ex machina. Wonderful. That sabre fight was soulless shit. You may be impressed by flashy crap with no dialog and nothing invested in the fight whatsoever, but ESB beats the shit out of it easily, then blows it out the airlock.

Lucas needs, if not another director to put his stories on film and keep the characters interesting, at least an editor with a bit of clout to keep him on the straight and narrow.

You're seriously contending that the characters are more interesting in TPM? Good Lord ....

[Darth Wong]

For what it's worth, I have noticed that women tend to prefer TPM over AOTC, while men tend to prefer AOTC over TPM.

[Vendetta]

AOTC does not have a child actor in a lead role, and Ewan McGregor is actually USED in the film. He's a frigging prop in TPM.

No, it has a Dawson's Creek reject who CAN'T ACT FOR SHIT playing Kevin the Jedi Teenager. "You're so UNFAIR!"

And Ewan McGregor is mugging horribly. Bring back Mark Renton.

The TPM lightsabre fight was a flashy sperm-soaked exercise in over-compensation.

They were a display of agility from someone who could, by and large DO the stuff you saw on screen. And it didn't feature a muppet and a stunt double.

Oh of course, this makes the undersea fish chase and battle of the teletubbies with Jar-Jar's idiocy and the ludicrous deus ex machina of an entire army shutting down because of the fluke destruction of one ship far superior.

To that? It's a scene straight from a fucking videogame, hell, Galaxy Quest sent that one up THREE YEARS IN ADVANCE! "Whoever wrote this scene should DIE!", and it's stretched out far beyond necessary. It's tense the first time, but then you realise how silly it is.

And yes, the Gungans are rubbish, but the assortment of wank we see in the secessionist movement is far worse. The Men in Suits of the cantina on a budget of fifteen mil were more believable as alien entities. And don't even get me started on the four armed fatbastard from the greasy diner, Entire Pointless Fucking Scene.

Pod Race compared to the Coruscant chase?

You mean the one that plays just like the opening of The Fifth Element?

That sabre fight was soulless shit.

It was good solid action, it was a martial artist using his body and skill. It wails the fuck out of the one in AOTC, which is a CGI muppet fighting a CGI stunt double.

and the interminable number of meetings.

How can it be worse for this? There are just as many minutes of action in TPM, but AOTC is FORTY MINUTES LONGER. And much of that's taken up with a 'romance' story that's fucking cringeworthy, between characters that 90% of the audiewnce can't bring themselves to give a fuck about because the actors playing the roles are either incompetent or just NOT TRYING!

Try watching the relationship between Han and Leia develop in ESB again WHILST they run from the empire, and WHILST they are in danger and doing things, and try to justify screentime spent on Anakin and Padme to yourself again.

[Joe Momma]

AOTC is proof that Lucas cares nothing for his fans. Natalie Portman spends several scenes outdoors in filmy gauze or tighty-whities and not one single time does a sudden thundershower soak her clothing. We got to see more nipplage from Hayden Christiansen, for God's sake.

-- Joe Momma

[Vympel]

LOL

Maybe women like TPM better because of the cute kid?

[Subnormal]

Hmmm. Both AOTC and TPM blew semi-coagulated horse semen compared to the Original Trilogy. Lucas is a horrible director, and these two films are the greatest examples. The two films are worthless and continue a never ending plot which has been played out many times before. The whole the Republic is corrupt and this is why, and look here at this corruption, oh I wonder who is corrupting the republic lets go and find out. The two films could have been compressed into one and saved the last two for what every Sci Fi fan wants SPACE WAR. The first film could have shown the corruption and the downfall, and the second two could of shown Anakin and Padme trying to fall in love in War. Surrounded by destruction, ubercool massdestruction weapons, and best of all Space battles. The two would of tried to find love in an impossible situation, with War, politics and the Jedi Code as their enemies while planets are blown out of existence and so are their relationship which ultimately would end up with Padme's death and Ani's turn to the darkside. The last film would end with a Decietful Master and a Misled apprentice in command of the republic and the greatest and majestic Empire in the Universe.

These two pascifistic Star WARS films featuring pointless Trade Federations, idiot foes, stupid bickering of pointless politics, rambling of Jedi codes and the choosen ONE who would save the republic, and a complete lack of mythology(which the OT glorified). Come on George where the hell did you come up with these horrible plots and how could you mislead us so much. The Prequel Trilogy should be called "Star CSPAN" instead of "Star WARS", it's pathetic. Midiclorians and bringing back the damn droids when they are pointless.

The Prequels are horrible and without the CG FX the films wouldn't even make more than I make a year.

If EP III bombs Im going to gather Friends and Im going to burn Skywalker Ranch to the ground. How could someone have 20 years to make a plot, with all the money anyone could ever need, and still fuck up. Lucas has lost touch with Star WARS and its original ideals are covered up in a putrid pile of donkey entrails known as the Prequel Trilogy. Don't get me wrong I LOVE Star Wars but the Prequels AREN'T Star Wars, I've seen Fanfict writers write something better in ten minutes than what Lucas did in 25 years.


I've lost Faith in Lucas because he lost faith in Star WARS.

[Darth Wong]

I don't dislike the prequels as much as some people; I have found that hardcore SW fans are ironically the most critical when it comes to the prequels. Moderate SW fans tend to be much more forgiving, even if there is a general consensus that they don't measure up to the original trilogy.

One could point to a lot of perceived problems, but even if they were all fixed and every suggestion acted upon, the prequels would still not measure up to the original trilogy. The original trilogy is a classic Hero's Quest, as described by Joe Campbell, revolving around Luke Skywalker.

But the prequels are not. Is Anakin supposed to be the hero? He receives the call, but to do what? Become a Jedi? Fight for Naboo, a conflict he doesn't even know about? He does not follow the hero's path, and so the mythological Hero's Journey of the original trilogy does not exist in the prequels. They are merely backstory. So the only question is whether they'll be fun and have eye candy.

I had the same problem with TTT, for what it's worth. FOTR was a classic Hero's Quest (much as the LOTR trilogy books were), but TTT takes the focus away from the Hobbits (through which we view the Tolkien world in the books) and puts it on the human heroes, thus transforming it from the Hero's Quest into the Hero Struggles with Self-Doubt while the Manly Warriors Get All the Screen Time.

[Durandal]

I had the same problem with TTT, for what it's worth. FOTR was a classic Hero's Quest (much as the LOTR trilogy books were), but TTT takes the focus away from the Hobbits (through which we view the Tolkien world in the books) and puts it on the human heroes, thus transforming it from the Hero's Quest into the Hero Struggles with Self-Doubt while the Manly Warriors Get All the Screen Time.

I agree, but I have to admit that I felt guilty throughout my viewing of TTT. Whenever a scene with Frodo and Sam came up, I sat there thinking, "OK, come on, let's get over to Strider, Gimli and Legolas."

[FaxModem1]

I was finally glad to see some human civilization, ooh, lets look at te dwarf kingdom that is dead, here is the fat hobbits harvesting crops, oh, and here are the elves, complete perfection rammed dow our throats, we saw the human city for 30 seconds. Maybe I'm ranting, but I wanted to see how the humans were in Middle Earth, and that was satisfied in TTT.

and it was cool looking, now, lets see what Golem, Sam, and Frodo are in for.

[Crazy_Vasey]

How can it be worse for this? There are just as many minutes of action in TPM, but AOTC is FORTY MINUTES LONGER.

TPM DVD: 2 hours 4 minutes
AOTC DVD: 2 hours 10 minutes

Those are approximate timings from the beginning of chapter 50 on each DVD, both at the "Directed by George Lucas" stage of the credits of thereabouts.

You're just plain wrong.

[Subnormal]

I believe he is talking about dramatic or battle type screen time not the length of the film, I guarantee that AOTC isn't completely full of action because if it was it would be the best ever(or would it? with no plot it would be stupid).


George Lucas is an idiot he is taking too long to tell his character's stories and giving us the shaft.

Where the hell is the wars and Space Battles?

[Crazy_Vasey]

No he's not talking about length or action scenes because he says they have the exact same length of action (which I very much doubt personally, TPM seemed pretty action free in the middle but I'm not going to count them) so he appears to be talking about the length of the overall film. There is no way in hell AOTC was even close to that much longer than TPM.

I don't get where you're coming from with the not enough action thing. Yes Anakin and Padmé can be kinda dull if you're not interested in them but you get a few minutes of that then it cuts to Obi-Wan off on his little adventure which had PLENTY of action to go around.

We have had the same amount of space battles so far as we had in the OT up to this point just about. We've had the ANHesque battle at the end of TPM (okay it wasn't as good but it was there) and the ESBesque asteroid chase in AOTC. We'll probably get the ROTJ like huge battle in Ep3. If we had a huge space war in every film it wouldn't be as special would it?

[Coalition]

Forget the "Nemesis" review. I'm waiting for Chapter 2 of "Reign of Terror".

1) Do the Maquis manage to turn the ship to their side?

2) Is the rumbling sound several thousand Imperial troops waking up?

3) Is that rumbling sound only a couple hundred Imperial personnel waking up due to failure of the other cold-storge modules, causing them to draft the Maquis?

All fun optios, but I bet Darth Wong is gonig to go with option 4:

Other.

[beyond hope]

The scene in AOTC that I really felt the whole movie could have done without is the whole Nintendo-level conveyor belt thing. I was bored the *first* time I watched, and it's only become more grating to me with every repetition.

Back to the subject of the thread, I can see us getting the "Nemesis" revelations when one of two things happens:

A) Mike gets a free rental at Blockbluster (or whatever the canuck equivalent is)

B) Mike decides it's worth the bandwidth to download it off Kazza

Otherwise we wait until the Sci-fi channel puts it on at 2 in the morning some night.

[Slartibartfast]

AOTC is proof that Lucas cares nothing for his fans. Natalie Portman spends several scenes outdoors in filmy gauze or tighty-whities and not one single time does a sudden thundershower soak her clothing. We got to see more nipplage from Hayden Christiansen, for God's sake.

-- Joe Momma

Hm it's just me or this would make an excellent quote...

[Slartibartfast]

Ok, food for thought:

Who else thinks that the Prequel would have been lots better if they didn't put an 8-year old as Anakin in TPM, but instead he was just a bit younger that Obi-Wan? I mean, Just put idiot-boy Hayden and then age him a bit (or not at all, I mean WHY would both movies need a whole 10-year in-between them?

I agree with putting both TPM and AotC in a single movie, then have a lot of kickass action instead of all that nonsense and talkies. I mean, TPM and AotC were 1 part action and 3 parts friggin' TALKING HEADS.

[Darth Wong]

GL had some themes he wanted to put in his prequels, by hook or by crook. That's why we ended up with a movie that used an 8 year old as the main character, and then realized that he couldn't carry it, so it diluted the story among many different characters and lost storytelling focus.

[Magashi]

Ok, food for thought:

Who else thinks that the Prequel would have been lots better if they didn't put an 8-year old as Anakin in TPM, but instead he was just a bit younger that Obi-Wan? I mean, Just put idiot-boy Hayden and then age him a bit (or not at all, I mean WHY would both movies need a whole 10-year in-between them?

I agree with putting both TPM and AotC in a single movie, then have a lot of kickass action instead of all that nonsense and talkies. I mean, TPM and AotC were 1 part action and 3 parts friggin' TALKING HEADS.

Not that Shadows of the Empire was all that interesting to me, but I would like to point out that the 10 years between TPM and AotC is not empty. This gives Lucas (and fanfic writers) time in which to insert more story at a later time. If it leapt from TPM to AotC where would that leave us? The clone army would have just been starting when it was discovered.... I am sure that that would have left an interestingly sour taste in our mouths.

I wouldn't worry about Ep3 too much, don't forget that we still have to deal with the Clones insanity. Maybe the next couple of batches will get rushed? Like popping out clones Mount Tantiss style, but without the advantage of those little fuzzy Force-Suckers. Clone Madness would explain a ... shall we say expanded recruitment agenda for the newly forming Empire?

[Magashi]

Forget the "Nemesis" review. I'm waiting for Chapter 2 of "Reign of Terror".

1) Do the Maquis manage to turn the ship to their side?

2) Is the rumbling sound several thousand Imperial troops waking up?

3) Is that rumbling sound only a couple hundred Imperial personnel waking up due to failure of the other cold-storge modules, causing them to draft the Maquis?

All fun optios, but I bet Darth Wong is gonig to go with option 4:

Other.

I have a strong feeling that the Maguis just turned the ship on, and it is going to be the biggest derelict ship in ST history. But the reactivation of systems and power may draw the attention of those that had initially thought the ship lost to them. I am envisioning something akin to Dark Force Rising by Tim Zahn. With the Katana Fleet having been lost, with all hands, until found by a small group of smugglers, fully by accident.

[Vendetta]

I had the same problem with TTT, for what it's worth. FOTR was a classic Hero's Quest (much as the LOTR trilogy books were), but TTT takes the focus away from the Hobbits (through which we view the Tolkien world in the books) and puts it on the human heroes, thus transforming it from the Hero's Quest into the Hero Struggles with Self-Doubt while the Manly Warriors Get All the Screen Time.

Lord of the Rings isn't a standard 'hero's quest' book though, it's designed as an imagined history of the world. Frodo isn't the hero, he's just a poor sod landed in the middle of a war who tries to do something way beyond his strength and capability.

Reading the end of the story makes that clear (Lord of the Rings is a single book with three volumes, not a trilogy, assessing it as a trilogy misses the point, because it's not written as a trilogy, it has one start, one middle, and one end, not three of each, as a trilogy has, see Star Wars for details).