Question about Mandalore vs Ulic Qel-Droma duel

[Sarevok]

I was reading up on the backstory of the KOTOR games in the wikis. It mentions a duel between Ulic Qel-Droma and Mandalore. Ulic won the duel and Mandalore pledged his allegiance to him as a result. Uh why would Mandalore even challenge Ullic to a duel ? He is a powerful Jedi knight. What hope does an ordinary human have of defeating a Jedi alone ? He is no Grevious after all. Can someone who read the relevant comics explain how Mandalore expected to beat him.

[Vympel]

The Mandalorian wank got to his head.

[Shroom Man 777]

His name is fucking Mandalore. Pronounce it in a low Micheal Clarke Duncan voice and behold its awesomeness! In the game, Mandalore didn't seem all that awesome and his Mandalorians were pretty meh, but just uttering his name caused me and my buddy to laugh like dumbasses.

Anyway, if he hops himself up in uber-steroids, dons awesome armor (the kind that can withstand glancing saber blows, ala Vader), and wields one of them blades made out of the anti-lightsaber steel, I think he'd fare pretty well. Oh, and a shitload of obscene Mandalorian weapons. If he can shoot missiles out of his ass like Boba Fett, he could still fight without his arms.

[Old Plympto]

His name is fucking Mandalore. Pronounce it in a low Micheal Clarke Duncan voice and behold its awesomeness! In the game, Mandalore didn't seem all that awesome and his Mandalorians were pretty meh, but just uttering his name caused me and my buddy to laugh like dumbasses.

The Mandalore in KOTOR (and Flashpoint) isn't the same Mandalore that challenged Ulic Qel-Droma. That particular Mandalore fell at Dxun and was presumably devoured there by Dxun's beasts. Another Mandalorian found his discarded face mask and wore it saying, "I am now the new Mandalore"... or some such.

[Shroom Man 777]

But if the Mandalorians followed Mandalore 2, then it'd be a safe bet to say that Mandalore 2 was a worthy successor to Mandalore 1 - which means that Mandalore 2 would be an adequate basis to guesstimate Mandalore 1's abilities.

Unless if the Mandalorians followed Mandalore 2 not because of his combat ability. But they're a warrior race, so I guess the biggest, meanest nob gets to be warboss. But maybe I'm wrong.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Well the known Mandalore’s are:

Mandalore The First- First to conquer all of Mandalore, he and his followers were Tuangs from Coruscant, the species he conquered and their planet was named after him.

Mandalore The Indomitable- As is the Mandalorian way he searched out honorable foes through a crusade, that lead him to the Teta System, where he heard about a Krath Commander, the Sith Ulic-Qel Droma. Ulic threatened him with war if he did not stop his raids of the Teta, system, instead Mandalore proposed a duel. Ulic convinced Mandalore, and his Mandalorian Warriors, to become his vassals should Mandalore lose. After Ulic was captured by Republic Forces, whilst Mandalore was in battle at the City of Iziz on Onderon, he made a retreat but was shot down over Dxun, and the beast quickly set upon him.

Mandalore the Ultimate- Last known Tuang to become Mandalore, he recreate the Mandalorian Crusaders as the Neo-Mandalorian Crusaders after their defeat during the last Sith War, he was also the mastermind behind the Mandalorian War, eventually he would be killed by Revan at the battle of Malachor V.

Canderous Ordo/Mandalore- Canderous was a veteran soldier of the Great Sith Wars, Mandalorian Wars, and the end of the Jedi Civil War. He would become Mandalore under orders from Revan to reform the Mandalorians, shortly before Revan left known space.

Ung Kusp- Leader of the Mandalorians, claimed to be betrayed by Jaing. He sent a squad of Mandalorians to kill Jaing. They accomplished their task, but Jaings parter Durge vowed vengeance, and set after Kusp.

Jaster Mereel- A Former Journeyman Protector of Concord Dawn, and reformed murderer, who went on to become Mandalore. During the Mandalorian Civil War, Jaster fought the Death Watch, a splinter group of Mandalorians. Mereel and his squad were saved by the Fett family, when the battles spilled onto Concord Dawn (Which he had been exiled from because of the aforementioned murder), and hid on their farms. The Death Watch, caught up to Jaster, and murdered young Jango’s family. Jaster took Jango in and raised him as a son and Mandalorian Warrior,

Jango Fett- Okay look, you really can’t be that stupid as to not know Jango Fett.

Alpha-class ARC Trooper A-02 “Spar”/Mandalore the Ressurector- A rogue stormtrooper. An insane clone who had some form of genetic memory of Jango, which drove him to abandon the GAR, rebuild the Supercommando’s and fight on behalf of the CIS. After the war he was apprehended in the Extrictarium Nebula by Ailyn Vel, who thought he was her father Boba, because of identical appearance and similair armor, and murdered him as an act of revenge for her mother’s death. He lived to be 52, though because of accelerated growt, was physically 104 when he died.

Fenn Shysa- A Mandalorian who fought in the Clone Wars, afterwards he and his friend created their own Rebellion and fought the Empire, and with the assistance of Princess Leia Organa, routed them from Mandalore. He then became Mandalore, not long after he would sacrifice his life to save Boba Fett, with Boba the only Mandalorian around he became the new Mandalore.

Boba Fett- Seriously, what could I possibly tell you about Boba that you don’t already know, except that he is a Mandalore.

[mikem4600]

Well the known Mandalore’s are:
[...]
Jango Fett- Okay look, you really can’t be that stupid as to not know Jango Fett.

[...]
Boba Fett- Seriously, what could I possibly tell you about Boba that you don’t already know, except that he is a Mandalore.

The Fetts were actually Mandalores? Were there any other Mandalorians at the time to actually be under them? Any more info on this (links, for example)?

[Elheru Aran]

Well the known Mandalore’s are:
[...]
Jango Fett- Okay look, you really can’t be that stupid as to not know Jango Fett.

[...]
Boba Fett- Seriously, what could I possibly tell you about Boba that you don’t already know, except that he is a Mandalore.

The Fetts were actually Mandalores? Were there any other Mandalorians at the time to actually be under them? Any more info on this (links, for example)?

No links at my command, but for the most part Mandalorians were largely dead after that point. The only remnants would be scattered bands of mercenaries who had hailed from Concord Dawn at some point, and by that time they would have been far enough from straight Mandalorian to be technically inelgible for the title of Mandalore. Not that it would prevent them claiming it if they were interested, of course, but it'd be a little pointless.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Let's see... there's Fett's daughter, as well as any mentally unstable clones, and being Mandalorian can be heritage (Human or Tuang) or a state of mind, for example Mira (The Bounty Hunter in KOTOR II) was an orphan from a mandalorian atack and conscripted, she is a Mandalorian. The Echani Philosphy is similair to Mandalorian, that if the Handmaiden took it to the extreme she could qualify.

[Cykeisme]

I guess if you're the only living Mandalorian, you're Mandalore by default

[Stofsk]

I was reading up on the backstory of the KOTOR games in the wikis. It mentions a duel between Ulic Qel-Droma and Mandalore. Ulic won the duel and Mandalore pledged his allegiance to him as a result. Uh why would Mandalore even challenge Ullic to a duel ? He is a powerful Jedi knight. What hope does an ordinary human have of defeating a Jedi alone ? He is no Grevious after all. Can someone who read the relevant comics explain how Mandalore expected to beat him.

We have out-of-universe knowledge related to the Jedi and their abilities. The inhabitants of Star Wars do not. So while we know Jedi precog give them an overwhelming advantage in a melee fight, there's little to suggest that knowledge is commonly accessible to the denizens of the GFFA. This problem is only exacerbated when the people in question - Mandalorians - are foreign conquerors who reasonably wouldn't have access to all the Republic's databanks.

[000]

Plus, if my memory serves me correctly, Mandalore put Qel-Droma at a severe disadvantage prior to the duel.

[Ritterin Sophia]

And the duel still stayed relatively equal, with Ulic barely coming out triumphant.

[Hot Hands Harry]

Ailyn Vel also impersonated Boba Fett during the Young JedI Knights books. Boba was retired at the time and she was tying to draw him out to kill him.

So by impersonating Boba she was also impersonating the Mandalore. So that would also make her a Mandalore since Boba never challenged her.

By the way. In KOTOR I got the impression that Mandalorian was more of a religion or way of life then a race. So as long as you follow the teachings of Mandalorian you are a Mandalorian.

[mr friendly guy]

I got the graphic novel which highlights the duel.

Essentially the Mandalore leader put Uelic at a severe disadvantage. He got some mandalore machine which flew and shot weapons out, his armour and hell lot of crap, while Uelic just had his lightsaber. Most probably he was confident he could win with such an advantage.

During the fight when Uelic had the advantage, IIRC the Mandalore leader asked Uelic to fight without using his lightsaber and use primitive weapons. Uelic still won. Again he most probably thought he might be able to win if the dark Jedi didn't use his lightsaber.

[Cykeisme]

He got some mandalore machine which flew and shot weapons out

Was it one of those Basilisk war droids? I've seen this wanky stuff where there's a droid Mandalorians of old ride on (like a fucking horse), riding them from orbit (!) to a planet's surface.

I can imagine Mandalorian figuring he had a chance of he had what is essentially a flying IFV.

How exactly did the duel go? Anyone got the name/issue# of the comic?

[Old Plympto]

He got some mandalore machine which flew and shot weapons out

Was it one of those Basilisk war droids? I've seen this wanky stuff where there's a droid Mandalorians of old ride on (like a fucking horse), riding them from orbit (!) to a planet's surface.

I can imagine Mandalorian figuring he had a chance of he had what is essentially a flying IFV.

How exactly did the duel go? Anyone got the name/issue# of the comic?

Tales of the Jedi - The Sith War #1, IIRC.

[mr friendly guy]

He got some mandalore machine which flew and shot weapons out

Was it one of those Basilisk war droids? I've seen this wanky stuff where there's a droid Mandalorians of old ride on (like a fucking horse), riding them from orbit (!) to a planet's surface.

I can imagine Mandalorian figuring he had a chance of he had what is essentially a flying IFV.

How exactly did the duel go? Anyone got the name/issue# of the comic?

It was a basilisk war droid. The comic as mentioned is Tales of the Jedi - The Sith War #1. I suggest getting the Trade paperback (which is what I got) rather than individual issues, which you can usually find on some online comic stores like milehighcomics.com or midtowncomics.com

[LordShaithis]

I only dimly recall this. Wasn't the duel also fought amid a network of cables stretching across a canyon or something? So Ulic had a chance to get at Mandalore, but was basically fighting while walking on a tightrope the whole time. Or so I recall.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Ailyn Vel also impersonated Boba Fett during the Young JedI Knights books. Boba was retired at the time and she was tying to draw him out to kill him.

So by impersonating Boba she was also impersonating the Mandalore. So that would also make her a Mandalore since Boba never challenged her.

Not quite, while technically by killing Spar and taking his helmet she should've become Mandalore, but previously Boba had taken his fathers helmet and thus should have been Mandalore before Spar and Shysa, however since neither of them were fit to take the mantle of Mandalore (Ailyn clearly didn't know much about the mandalorian ways, and Boba never seem to know what the title of Mandalore meant until Shysa saved him) neither were fit to be Mandalore.

By the way. In KOTOR I got the impression that Mandalorian was more of a religion or way of life then a race. So as long as you follow the teachings of Mandalorian you are a Mandalorian.

Like I said, it's racial and cultural; if you fit either of those you are a Mandalorian. (Jango Clones are Mandalorians by race and Mira was culturally)

[Kuja]

I only dimly recall this. Wasn't the duel also fought amid a network of cables stretching across a canyon or something? So Ulic had a chance to get at Mandalore, but was basically fighting while walking on a tightrope the whole time. Or so I recall.

Essentially yes. Since Ulic was an outsider attempting to wrest control of the Mandalorians, Mandalore was entitled to place some huge resrictions on him, and he milked it for all it was worth, bringing in his flying war droid and his axe while Ulic wasn't even allowed to stand on solid ground. When Ulic still beat him, Mandalore agreed to join forces.

[LordShaithis]

Yeah, well see, I can totally understand a normal guy thinking he can beat a Jedi. At least when he's a badass fighter in his own right, gets to bring his flying killbot to the duel, and can force the Jedi to fight while walking on a tightrope.

[Cykeisme]

Jango did manage to hold up against Obi-Wan for a little bit. Admittedly he had help (from friggin starship cannons) and a lot of equipment (including a rocket), and he technically lost when Obi-Wan kicked him off the edge, but with enough of an unfair advantage, a well-trained, well-prepared human can have something of a chance against a Jedi who isn't prepared for the uneven challenge.

Like I said, it's racial and cultural; if you fit either of those you are a Mandalorian. (Jango Clones are Mandalorians by race and Mira was culturally)

Hmm, how does this work? Are there any real-life parallels to compare with?

It can be a little confusing.. let's say an orphan is taken in and raised by the Mandalorians, then he's a Mandalorian by culture, right? What if he has children who aren't raised by Mandalorians? Are they Mandalorian by race? What about their children?

[Hot Hands Harry]

General Schatten

Not quite, while technically by killing Spar and taking his helmet she should've become Mandalore, but previously Boba had taken his fathers helmet and thus should have been Mandalore before Spar and Shysa, however since neither of them were fit to take the mantle of Mandalore (Ailyn clearly didn't know much about the mandalorian ways, and Boba never seem to know what the title of Mandalore meant until Shysa saved him) neither were fit to be Mandalore.

Ah, so no one is really fit to be Mandalore any more and its now more of a Mando Warlord or gang leader title. Oh, look a Mando gang lead by the thug Boba.

Like I said, it's racial and cultural; if you fit either of those you are a Mandalorian.

Well since its been pointed out the Mando race is dead, its only cultural. Kind’ a like a religion.

(Jango Clones are Mandalorians by race

No there human by race and some are culturally Mando wantabees. Via a hand full of Mando instructors.

and Mira was culturally)

Yes, and Human by race.

[DesertFly]

Ah, so no one is really fit to be Mandalore any more and its now more of a Mando Warlord or gang leader title. Oh, look a Mando gang lead by the thug Boba.

Like I said, it's racial and cultural; if you fit either of those you are a Mandalorian.

Well since its been pointed out the Mando race is dead, its only cultural. Kind’ a like a religion.

(Jango Clones are Mandalorians by race

No there human by race and some are culturally Mando wantabees. Via a hand full of Mando instructors.

You're mixing up culture, race and species. Most people from China are from a Chinese race. Most people who live there, whether Chinese or not, try to fit into the local Chinese culture, which is separate from race. On the other hand, everyone who lives there is in the Human species. Mandalorians are a separate race from humans, not a different species.