Shadow Battlecrab - comparable to other universes?

[Ubiquitous]

What ships in these universes are comparable to a Battlecrab?

- SW
- ST
- SG1
- Weberverse
- Cultureverse
- Andr.

[Vendetta]

High end Federation vessels would stand favourably against a Battlecrab. They might be a little underpowered to go one on one, but two or three on one they would win.

500MT bombs at some range fucked them over, numerous photon/quantums at closer ranges would do the job just as well.

[Ender]

Feddies have the range and the power to smack them around. Given their stance in relation to those other universes, I don't think I need to go into more detail.

[Howedar]

Most Federation ships of the line would be similar, somewhere between 1/2 as strong as a Battlecrab for something like an Excelsior to 3x as strong for something like a Sovereign (note: numbers from ass). In the Empire, I would guess something a little bigger than a YT-1300 would stand favorably: less shields but more armament. Maybe something like a Systems Patrol Craft.

[Stormbringer]

What ships in these universes are comparable to a Battlecrab?

- SW
- ST
- SG1
- Weberverse
- Cultureverse
- Andr.

SW- A battlecrab would promptly have it's ass handed to it.

ST- Some of the low end powers would be in danger but not most of them

SG1- No idea, probably poorly

Weberverses: (They'd have an FTL advantage in all of them)

Honorverse- They'd promptly have their ass handed to them. A single salvo of missles or beams would fry a battle crab and at ranges they'd never be able to reply at.

Starfireverse- Again, long range and heavy firepower though not as much as the honorverse. They would also have a serious manuverability adavantage.

furyverse - again a massive curb stomping, huge numbers, range and firepower advantage

Trollverse - no clear idea but likely outranged and out gunned as well

Cultureverse- a joke and a bad one at that

Andromedaverse- another curb stomping.

[Howedar]

Here's an idea, why don't you read what you quote?

This is about what specific ships in said universes would be roughly equivilent to a Battlecrab, not how a Battlecrab would do against capships of each universe.

[Darth Wong]

Don't know about all of them, but I figure a typical SW heavy fighter or light patrol craft (one with shields and heavy missiles) is easily capable of handling a Battlecrab. Slave-1, for example. Or a TIE Defender.

[Ted C]

I think Shadow cruisers generate power at least in the petawatt range based on what we've seen them do to Narn warships in battle. That be sufficient to seriously threaten any typical Star Trek ship, but not enough to endanger a Star Wars ship of comparable size and combat role.

[Ender]

I'd say something along the lines of an Imperial customs cruiser. Or a lancer frigate.

For Trek, I'd say maybe a Nebula class or Execellisor would be it's equal.

SG1, no idea, never saw enough to judge

Weberverse... maybe a Honorverse destroyer

Culture, maybe a slingsot equipped Edust in a spacesuit.

Andromeda, based on what all systems has to offers, a DSA1

[Captain Kruger]

What ships in these universes are comparable to a Battlecrab?

- SW
- ST
- SG1
- Weberverse
- Cultureverse
- Andr.

SW = Slave 1 would probably be a good match. 4 of her missiles would be more than equal to one of the mines from "Into the Fire"; the question would just be whether Jango/Boba could avoid the Big Shadow Beam of Death(TM) long enough to deliver their payload. I think any other fighter-class ship would be outmatched by a Crab; any SW capship would just paste the thing all over the sky.

Who would I root for? FETT!!! FETT!!! FETT!!! FETT!!!...

ST = *scratches head* I'm not honestly sure. Canon ST is only what we've seen on-screen, which would support low-kiloton range torpedoes rather than the 64MT figure given in the tech manual. That doesn't bode too well for the Feds or anyone else of their tech level. So it depends on which torpedo figures you want to go by. I try to stay with the on-screen information myself. With that in mind, I'd say a Borg cube would be the best match mano-a-mano for the Crab.

Who would I root for? Evil vs. evil...hmm...I think the Shadows are the lesser of two evils. Go Crab. Kill drones dead.

SG1 = As far as I know, there haven't been any numbers given or figured out on Goauld, Asgard, or anyone else's tech. So I'd have to say a big fat I DON'T KNOW.

Who would I root for? The Asgard seem kinda cool.

Weberverse = Well, I haven't read any of the Harrington books...*duck*...(go ahead, call me unbeliever or whatever)...but from what I've heard the ships are pretty nasty. The Honorverse sounds like it would have the range advantage. However, I don't know how much punch their weapons pack.

Who would I root for? Honor sounds like a kick-ass character from what I've heard. Plus she's Human, so I say KILL THE BUG!!!

Cultureverse = Again, I'm not personally familiar with them, but it sounds like they could make the Galactic Empire their bitch in a straight-up fight with equal numbers. If that's the case, I doubt a little Culture fighter would have any trouble with a Crab. In other words, they have NO equal here.

Who would I root for? I don't know a thing about the Culture, but they don't particularly sound nice. I'll stay neutral for this one.

Andromeda = Maybe the Eureka Maru? Anything bigger would wipe the floor with the Shadow Cockroach. The Andromeda Ascendant can dish out 6.4 gigatons of firepower PER SECOND with her missiles alone. If she's close enough, she might bring her anti-proton cannons out to play too. Plus there are other ships that easily outgun the AA.

Who would I root for? This is the coolest damn sci-fi show ever outside of B5. I love these characters. Bring out the Raid, 'cause it's time to exterminate.

[XaLEv]

I see no one has mentioned the Dahakverse. I figure a few Imperial fighters could do it.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

What ships in these universes are comparable to a Battlecrab?

- SW
- ST
- SG1
- Weberverse
- Cultureverse
- Andr.

A Shadow Battlecrab can absorb something like 60 MT of energy (200,000 TJ) and is destroyed completely. It can deliver at least 10 KT to a capital ship. (Stats taken from BabTech.)

SW - A typical fighter can deliver KT-level blasts. A Corellian Corvette's guns can deliver MT level damage. Hence, Battlecrab = Corvette.

ST - In theory, any ST ship with good aim with it's photon torpedoes could do it. However, photon torpedoes onscreen tend to be KT-range weapons, and phasers are much less powerful. So, a Battlecrab would be an expensive proposition for any race. It would likely take a small taskforce of Starfleet vessels or a single Borg Cube to smash a Battlecrab.

SG1 - The Goa'uld could do it. We've seen them deploy all of maybe three ship classes . . . snubfighters, transports, and motherships. A mothership would probably do the job quite nicely.

Honorverse - Ships in the Honorverse fire low-megaton range weapons at ranges of millions of kilometers. Unfortunately, most Honorverse missiles tend to be bomb-pumped lasers. Except that the Shadows never demonstrate any point-defense capability. (And it may be somewhat doubtful that they could hit a missile going at a respectable fraction of c.) With that being said, most Honorverse ships could engage a Battlecrab and win.

Culture - Not sure. I don't even think the Shadows would register as anything resembling a threat to them.

[Durandal]

The Battlecrab would be decimated by a Star Destroyer or Acclamator. Slave I could take it out with a seismic charge.

A Borg Cube could probably fuck up a Battlecrab nicely. Perhaps a Dominion cruiser as well. Probably the Enterprise-E could.

[Atlan]

Hm, most of the Universes I know of have been spoken for, but as far as the Perry Rhodan universe goes, a Battlecrab would be equivalent to a single fighter, and maybe not even that. It isn`t that the fighter is all that powerful, but it has FTL weapons that deliver nukes inside of the crab, and shields that can take high megaton yield explosions.

[The Nomad]

Cultureverse = Again, I'm not personally familiar with them, but it sounds like they could make the Galactic Empire their bitch in a straight-up fight with equal numbers. If that's the case, I doubt a little Culture fighter would have any trouble with a Crab. In other words, they have NO equal here.

Who would I root for? I don't know a thing about the Culture, but they don't particularly sound nice. I'll stay neutral for this one.

You underestimate Culture's power. A single General Contact Unit ( some kind of scout/exploration craft ) would nicely kick the asses of SW, ST, B5, and Andromeda 666 ways a sunday ( short of god-like entities ).

OTOH they don't have fighters. In fact, anything under 100 m is quite weak even in comparison of other sci-fi vehicles, but anything equal or greater than a GCU is unstoppable for most universes.

[GSV Use Psychology]

From the Cultureverse we haven't seen anything that would compare to a battlecrab. Perhaps something from the lesser races...
Any dedicated ship from a Culture-level race would swat a battlecrab like a fly.

[NecronLord]

A culture spacesuit could probably take one...

[SyntaxVorlon]

Shadow Battle Crabs use special intelligent armor that spreads weapons fire around the hull equally turning million joule beams into a few thousand joules spread over the hull. That energy wave hit the crab in a fraction of a second, too fast for the armor to react. A battlecrab could take on a Carrack Cruiser or MC40 or if it used phasing fast enough it could knock out a larger vessel.
In ST universe let me say this:
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
SG1, Weberverse: No idea never seen/read these.
Culture: A drone could probably take on a battle crab
Andr.: Virtually all of the andromeda's fire power comes from missles, missles that are typically unshielded, beams take out missles, pretty simple. The nietzcheians use plasma-ball weapons but that probably would not be able to hit a battle crab.

[The Nomad]

Err Necronlord and SyntaxVorlon I hope you're kidding. Even I am not that Culturerabid

[The Nomad]

And how would the beam of a Battle Crab hit near-c missiles, and bio-armour resist to AP bolts ? ? Anyway I think Renewed_Valour will deal with this argument more efficiently than I would, anyway have a look at this, it's canon and overrule visuals ( according to RV, which will probably post a link about this ) .

[NecronLord]

Err Necronlord and SyntaxVorlon I hope you're kidding. Even I am not that Culturerabid

If it has a decent set of effectors...

[Ender]

Shadow Battle Crabs use special intelligent armor that spreads weapons fire around the hull equally turning million joule beams into a few thousand joules spread over the hull. That energy wave hit the crab in a fraction of a second, too fast for the armor to react. A battlecrab could take on a Carrack Cruiser or MC40 or if it used phasing fast enough it could knock out a larger vessel.

Wow, you don't even think, do you? Ignoring the fact that, like nukes, a TL also fires for under a second which would amplify the effects, even if all 60 MT hit in a microsecond and you adjust for that, it still works out to far less then a single turbolaser.

In ST universe let me say this:
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Photon torpedoes also go of in a fraction of a second, and much closer to the target meansing more of their energy goes in then those 500 MT nukes did, and they can shoot off a spread of 6 in a single volley, and they have a signifigant range advantage.

Andr.: Virtually all of the andromeda's fire power comes from missles, missles that are typically unshielded, beams take out missles, pretty simple.

Right, we saw a molecular slicer used as point defense against 60 near C missiles when?

[seanrobertson]

What ships in these universes are comparable to a Battlecrab?

- SW
- ST
- SG1
- Weberverse
- Cultureverse
- Andr.

SW = Slave 1 would probably be a good match. 4 of her missiles would be more than equal to one of the mines from "Into the Fire";

Actually, IIRC, each of those missiles had a directed yield
of ~190 megatons. That's at least thrice that which blew
a Shadow Spider to hell in "Into the Fire" (though many
Fivers in other waters still claim a spider was NOT destroyed,
LOL).

the question would just be whether Jango/Boba could avoid the Big Shadow Beam of Death(TM) long enough to deliver their payload. I think any other fighter-class ship would be outmatched by a Crab; any SW capship would just paste the thing all over the sky.

Actually, I think the Shadow beam would be a negligible threat.

The Naboo cruiser has shields rated into the millions of terawatts
range. There is no indication that Spiders can discharge more
than a few megatons/sec. (petawattage, as Ted said). It'd
take them a long time to burn through even modest-sized
Wars craft.

Who would I root for? FETT!!! FETT!!! FETT!!! FETT!!!...

ST = *scratches head* I'm not honestly sure. Canon ST is only what we've seen on-screen, which would support low-kiloton range torpedoes rather than the 64MT figure given in the tech manual. That doesn't bode too well for the Feds or anyone else of their tech level.

Hmm...I dunno. Torpedoes are probably more like in the
hundreds of kT to low megaton range tops, IMO, unless "Genesis"
is one's bible. That they can withstand a dozen or so hits from comparably armed (or even superior, a'la "Nemesis") ships means their defensive
and offensive capabilities are pretty-well matched. Many
Trek ships *should* be able to kill a Spider...remember,
a *fraction* of a 500 megaton explosion was enough to PULVERIZE
a Spider instantly. Other weapons handily disabled them or
gave them pause in the show, even *destroyed* them without
blasting them into bits.

I think a Borg cube would tear a Spider a new asshole. A
Galaxy-class starship could probably stand toe-to-toe with
one and come out the victor. But the Shadows would smoke the
Federation in all-out warfare, and possibly even the Borg, too.

Who would I root for? Evil vs. evil...hmm...I think the Shadows are the lesser of two evils. Go Crab. Kill drones dead.

Borg shields are way too strong relative to the Spider's firepower.
It'd get snagged in a tractor beam and cut to bits within one minute.

[seanrobertson]

What ships in these universes are comparable to a Battlecrab?

- SW
- ST
- SG1
- Weberverse
- Cultureverse
- Andr.

SW = Slave 1 would probably be a good match. 4 of her missiles would be more than equal to one of the mines from "Into the Fire";

Actually, IIRC, each of those missiles had a directed yield
of ~190 megatons. That's at least thrice that which blew
a Shadow Spider to hell in "Into the Fire" (though many
Fivers in other waters still claim a spider was NOT destroyed,
LOL).

the question would just be whether Jango/Boba could avoid the Big Shadow Beam of Death(TM) long enough to deliver their payload. I think any other fighter-class ship would be outmatched by a Crab; any SW capship would just paste the thing all over the sky.

Actually, I think the Shadow beam would be a negligible threat.

The Naboo cruiser has shields rated into the millions of terawatts
range. There is no indication that Spiders can discharge more
than a few megatons/sec. (petawattage, as Ted said). It'd
take them a long time to burn through even modest-sized
Wars craft.

Who would I root for? FETT!!! FETT!!! FETT!!! FETT!!!...

ST = *scratches head* I'm not honestly sure. Canon ST is only what we've seen on-screen, which would support low-kiloton range torpedoes rather than the 64MT figure given in the tech manual. That doesn't bode too well for the Feds or anyone else of their tech level.

Hmm...I dunno. Torpedoes are probably more like in the
hundreds of kT to low megaton range tops, IMO, unless "Genesis"
is one's bible. That they can withstand a dozen or so hits from comparably armed (or even superior, a'la "Nemesis") ships means their defensive
and offensive capabilities are pretty-well matched. Many
Trek ships *should* be able to kill a Spider...remember,
a *fraction* of a 500 megaton explosion was enough to PULVERIZE
a Spider instantly. Other weapons handily disabled them or
gave them pause in the show, even *destroyed* them without
blasting them into bits.

I think a Borg cube would tear a Spider a new asshole. A
Galaxy-class starship could probably stand toe-to-toe with
one and come out the victor. But the Shadows would smoke the
Federation in all-out warfare, and possibly even the Borg, too.

Who would I root for? Evil vs. evil...hmm...I think the Shadows are the lesser of two evils. Go Crab. Kill drones dead.

Borg shields are way too strong relative to the Spider's firepower.
It'd get snagged in a tractor beam and cut to bits within one minute.

[seanrobertson]

CRUD!

I'm sorry about the double post. I was hoping it wouldn't do
that...

Shadow Battle Crabs use special intelligent armor that spreads weapons fire around the hull equally turning million joule beams into a few thousand joules spread over the hull.

A million joules? That's a megajoule. Tank rounds are more
powerful than that.

And, indeed, Spiders (the only *canon* description of
the buggy bastards, from the show itself) DO seem to disperse
incoming weapon energy across the face of a shield...but
so what? It STILL has to cope with the energy. Several
so-called "light turbolaser" shots would overload its shields
and kill it.

That energy wave hit the crab in a fraction of a second, too fast for the armor to react.

How is it "smart" armor, then? Smart armor implies reactivity.
It should be able to cope with a given amount of energy (below
a certain threshold of course) even if it is delivered very, very
rapidly, a'la a nuclear device.

A battlecrab could take on a Carrack Cruiser or MC40 or if it used phasing fast enough it could knock out a larger vessel.

LOL. It wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in hell.

Spiders have firepower limited to the MEGATON range. Anyone
who claims otherwise is lying or purely pulling figures out of their
ass.

In "The Coming of The Shadows," IIRC, three Shadow ships
bombarded a planet-based Narn installation. JMS has oft
been quoted as saying, "The Shadow beams were able to
penetrate all the way to the planet's mantle," thus liberating
magma that spewed over the Narn base.

If we took JMS's word, that is one THIN crust we're talking
about. Even if we assumed that the Shadows were able
to drill all the way to this planet's molten mantle, the
magma appears as lava no more than five seconds AFTER
the beams made contact with the ground.

WHOOPS! On an Earth-like target, lava doesn't shoot
up at a rate of some 40 km+/sec., let alone STOP as
it pours out. The rate at which we see the lava climb
above the Narn base is probably pretty consistent with
the rate at which it came through the crust.

Therefore, the "crust" can be no more than about a kilometer
thick in that area, and the Shadows--several of which joined
in on the same spot to drill down, btw--are limited to drilling
a thin hole roughly a kilometer deep in no more than five
seconds.

Even if we assumed that the magma was liberated entirely
through vaporization of material directly above it AND that
the "holes" drilled were very wide (if you want specifics, please
ask me--I won't hesitate), we're looking at megaton/sec.
ranged firepower at BEST.

Megaton-ranged firepower would be laughed it by the lowliest
Wars capship, which can probably withstand many gigatons of
energy prior to shield failure (and as we approach warships,
closer to teratonnage/sec. if not QUITE there--remains to be
seen and depends on the warship. An ISD wouldn't blink at
less than such a level).

In ST universe let me say this:
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I say a Borg cube would tear a Spider a new asshole.
Mock-laughing is no counter-argument. Concession accepted.