NFL Football Thread

Darth Quorthon · Post by **Darth Quorthon** » 2006-10-17 12:45am

Well fuck.

Like many others, I thought Arizona had the game well in hand, and left my humble abode to do some quick shopping. After the local convenience store failed to produce the deodorant I needed, I drive over to the local Vons. I return home, look at the television and see "Bears defeat Cardinals, 24-23". I missed a 2-touchdown comeback to go buy toilet paper and deodorant? Fuck!

On another note, didn't Grossman have a shitty game! Four interceptions and two lost fumbles? What's the record for turnovers by a single player in game? I'm debating on whether this games shows how good the Bears are or how shitty the Cardinals are. I know it's not every day you see a team come back from six turnovers while scoring no touchdowns on offense, but it seems as though they got a little help from the other side - namely crappy special teams play. Just saw Dennis Green yelling at the press conference. I'd be pissed too. I hope they replay this on ESPN Classic at some point.

@ Darth Fanboy: Agree wholeheartedly regarding Kornheiser. I know it's been said before, but it's becoming reminiscent of when Dennis Miller was brought in to MNF by ABC. The only chuckle he got out of me is when Al Michaels referred to the "neutral zone" in regards to offsides and Miller said "between the Federation and the Klingon Empire".

'til next week...

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2006-10-17 01:32am

I only caught it for a second (I too fell prey to the "guess the game's over better do other shit" syndrome) on replay, but was it just me or did that second fumble recovery for a Bear's TD look like James' forward progress had been stopped?

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2006-10-17 02:04am

RogueIce wrote:
phongn wrote:The Bucs won?
Barely. Did you see that catch? It almost didn't count. If it weren't for the whole Reply Review thing, it wouldn't have.

Incidently, that's pretty much the only part of the game I saw, because I happened to flip to CBS in the last three minutes or so of the game.

How the bleeding fuck do you rough the passer on a sack?
Oh well, at least the Bucs won.

thejester · Post by **thejester** » 2006-10-17 02:17am

Speaking of which, in the Cardinals/Bears game why was Roughing the Kicker awarded? They barely touched him and any contact seemed the result of follow-through from trying to smother.

Falkenhayn · Post by **Falkenhayn** » 2006-10-17 02:40am

Flagg wrote:
RogueIce wrote:
phongn wrote:The Bucs won?
Barely. Did you see that catch? It almost didn't count. If it weren't for the whole Reply Review thing, it wouldn't have.

Incidently, that's pretty much the only part of the game I saw, because I happened to flip to CBS in the last three minutes or so of the game.
How the bleeding fuck do you rough the passer on a sack?
Oh well, at least the Bucs won.

Helmet to Helmet contact, or a hit delivered below the knee IIRC.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-10-17 03:49pm

It was for "driving his head into the ground". BS call.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2006-10-17 05:16pm

Thirty years ago, Jack Lambert said that if QBs are going to be coddled, put 'em in skirts. I'd love to see his reaction to this bullshit.

RE: Dennis Green's meltdown after another choke of Schottenheimerean proportions. Shitcanning the OC might help, but what Green really needs right now is a local pharmacy with NO bible-thumpers because if anyone needs a morning after pill, it's him.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2006-10-17 06:32pm

Elfdart wrote:Thirty years ago, Jack Lambert said that if QBs are going to be coddled, put 'em in skirts. I'd love to see his reaction to this bullshit.

I tend to agree with that sentiment. I mean yeah, the QB is an important position and they cost alot of money, but if they can't take a few hits then they shouldn't be playing the fucking game.

thejester · Post by **thejester** » 2006-10-17 07:19pm

My mate and I were watching and were totally bemused by it. I can understand the purpouse of such a rule (in AFL there's a similar one - can't lay a bump on a player well after he's kicked/handballed) but contact between the two was absolutely minimum and the result of the follow-through. The umpires gesture suggested that the guy had been laying the boot in but the replay didn't show that. For such a physical sport there sure are some pussy rules.

CarsonPalmer · Post by **CarsonPalmer** » 2006-10-17 07:25pm

Well, what did the OC do wrong? Your stud RB fumbles at a critical time, your rookie QB is blindsided and fumbles, and special teams breakdowns (not his job) cost them the game? The offense put up 23 on one of the best defenses in the NFL, and when they needed to, came up with the big drive, a drive ended by a missed field goal (not his job).

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2006-10-17 11:42pm

CarsonPalmer wrote:Well, what did the OC do wrong? Your stud RB fumbles at a critical time, your rookie QB is blindsided and fumbles, and special teams breakdowns (not his job) cost them the game? The offense put up 23 on one of the best defenses in the NFL, and when they needed to, came up with the big drive, a drive ended by a missed field goal (not his job).

He kept running plays, and failed to block Urlacher. They actually set a record for the lowest amount of yards per attempt rushing ratio. 36 attempts, 55 yards.

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » 2006-10-18 12:34am

phongn wrote:The Bucs won?

Yep, and they deserved it, the Bengals played like shit and they just didn't seem to have there heads in the game and were making bonehead mistakes while unable to get the running game going against the 30th ranked run-D.

Absolutely pitiful, though the roughing the passer call against Justin Smith was complete and total bullshit. Gradkowski curled into a ball as Smith hit him with his shoulder thats why he hit his head against the ground not because of anything Smith did.

But congrats on the win Even though I'm now 0-2 on road trips I've gotta say I still had a good time in Tampa, I was especially impressed by all the good looking women I saw everywhere. The weather was also a great improvement from the 35 degree weather in Cincy when we left town.

Here's a picture of me and some friends tailgating before the game
Tailgating the picture was taken by the girls in the picture as part of some tailgating website. I've still yet to get my pictures of the trip saved.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2006-10-18 01:06am

thejester wrote:Speaking of which, in the Cardinals/Bears game why was Roughing the Kicker awarded? They barely touched him and any contact seemed the result of follow-through from trying to smother.

Any touching of the kicker is considered a no-no except if it's before he kicked/has control of the ball/Kickoff.

If I remember correctly there was a game a while back (might have been College... not quite sure) where a Kicker got hurt like that and couldn't kick and had absolutley disastrous results for his team.

CarsonPalmer · Post by **CarsonPalmer** » 2006-10-18 07:34pm

My question: If the Cards had lost by thirty points, would the OC have been fired? Secondly, he failed to block Urlacher? The players do have to execute, and they still were in a position to win the game at the end.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2006-10-18 10:35pm

Straha wrote:
thejester wrote:Speaking of which, in the Cardinals/Bears game why was Roughing the Kicker awarded? They barely touched him and any contact seemed the result of follow-through from trying to smother.
Any touching of the kicker is considered a no-no except if it's before he kicked/has control of the ball/Kickoff.

If I remember correctly there was a game a while back (might have been College... not quite sure) where a Kicker got hurt like that and couldn't kick and had absolutley disastrous results for his team.

A kicker is essentially defenseless when his leg's up, so you can cause some serious injuries even if you don't hit him very hard. It's not surprising at all that injuries can be caused that way, and that's why the rules protect the kicker the way they do.

thejester · Post by **thejester** » 2006-10-19 02:23am

Frankly, I find that extremely hard to believe. Kicking is an integral part of AFL, as is the smother, yet serious injuries are rare - the worst (and only) in recent memory being Nathan Brown's leg being snapped two seasons ago, when a Melbourne player literally fell across Brown just after he had kicked (and was running, too). IMO it should be an acceptable risk - and if you're afraid your kicker is going to get hurt, keep a replacement on the bench like with any other player or train your PAT man as a backup.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-10-19 03:27am

thejester wrote:Frankly, I find that extremely hard to believe. Kicking is an integral part of AFL, as is the smother, yet serious injuries are rare - the worst (and only) in recent memory being Nathan Brown's leg being snapped two seasons ago, when a Melbourne player literally fell across Brown just after he had kicked (and was running, too). IMO it should be an acceptable risk - and if you're afraid your kicker is going to get hurt, keep a replacement on the bench like with any other player or train your PAT man as a backup.

Ok, since you don't seem to know all the ins and outs of "Gridiron"... Keeping 2 punters on a 52 man roster is pretty fucking hard, but wait... Teach the field goal kickers how to punt!!! DUH!!! Why hasn't anyone thought of that before.

Ok, sarcasim aside.
There are similar rules in place for other postions. QBs and recievers can't be clobbered when they are considered "prone". Special teams returners are allowed a "halo" in which they are allowed to catch the ball without interferance.
It's not so much about the hazard of of one hit, more so than these are by far the weakest players on the field and need to be able to play through the entire season. If you were able to plow full boar into these guys every time they punted, each team would have about 10 punters on IR at the end of the season and that would cause hell on the rest of the roster and the salary cap. Basicaly it's not finacially sound to let the punters get killed out there.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-10-19 04:05am

CarsonPalmer wrote:My question: If the Cards had lost by thirty points, would the OC have been fired? Secondly, he failed to block Urlacher? The players do have to execute, and they still were in a position to win the game at the end.

Ok, I'm going to assume by your handle that you at least know a little bit about football.
O-lineman don't just go out and block whoever they feel like. They have assignments and progressions just like a QB does. If A is blocked move to B, If he is blocked then go backside. Some teams use zone blocking etc. etc. These assignments are dictated by the play call, and are created and called by the OC. (No, not every OC creates his own plays)
Now if the linemen are fucking up and not getting to their assignments or are constantly fucking up their reads, then it is the job of the OC and his underling, the O-line coach to make corrections at halftime or right on the sideline.

If you watched the game and know what you are looking for, the Cards seemed to regress after halftime. Yes, Urlacher is a badass, but even the most badassed of the badass can get his ass blown up by a good blocking scheme. The Broncos line against Ray Lewis acouple of years ago comes to mind.
Yes, the players have to execute, but they need to be given the correct plays. The two plays that the Bears D scored on were caused by; A. A bad presnap read by the right side of the line which allowed the end to come completely free. Hell, if you watch the replay, I SWEAR the guy stutters just for a second waiting for a blocker that he thinks should be there. B. Brian Urlacher made a helluva play and caused Edge to fumble, which rarely happens. Now are either of these two individual plays the fault of the OC? No. What is his fault (and it started well before this game) is the failure to impliment the proper adjustments at halftime and the failure to see that there was no FUCKING way that the Cards were going to run against the Bears that night (36 attempts for 55 yards, that has never happened in HISTORY of the NFL) and switch to a West Coast style of play calling which uses the short pass in place of the running game. ESPECIALLY with a back like Edge who is an accomplished pass blocker and an excellent reciever.

To your first question. If the Cards had lost by 30 would the OC have been fired? Probably not. The DC would be worried though.
However they didn't loose by thirty, in fact they were up by 20. Not only were they up by 20, but the defense caused SIX turnovers. Do you know what Payton Manning does when he gets the ball 6 extra times in a game? Hell, do you know what Anrdew Walters would do if the Raiders defense gave him 6 extra shots? I will tell you this; It would not be to march your team down the field in hopes that your field goal kicker doesn't choke and HOPEFULLY save the game for you. They would be on the sidelines laughing and drinking Gatorade watching captain backup run up the score.

Ok, well maybe not the Raiders. (That's for you ElfD)

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-10-19 04:06am

I keep starting sentances with "OK". I sound like a fucking HS cheerleader.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-10-19 04:09am

Kyle wrote:But congrats on the win Even though I'm now 0-2 on road trips I've gotta say I still had a good time in Tampa, I was especially impressed by all the good looking women I saw everywhere. The weather was also a great improvement from the 35 degree weather in Cincy when we left town.

Here's a picture of me and some friends tailgating before the game
Tailgating the picture was taken by the girls in the picture as part of some tailgating website. I've still yet to get my pictures of the trip saved.

I almost kept playing football just to go to FSU and "see" the girls

. The scout I talked to even used that as a pitch.

CarsonPalmer · Post by **CarsonPalmer** » 2006-10-19 06:50pm

All in all, it really is a tough call. In my opinion, firing a coach in midseason really needs to be pretty clearcut, because its confusing enough change coaching staffs from one year to the next. I do agree with you about a west coast style of offense, but any coach would be hesitant about dropping back his QB after that fumble for a touchdown. In my mind, firing a coach is a last resort, and one poor half is not enough to fire him for. Hell, my HS team has had five bad GAMES, but firing a coach is trigger-happy.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-10-19 09:12pm

CarsonPalmer wrote:All in all, it really is a tough call. In my opinion, firing a coach in midseason really needs to be pretty clearcut, because its confusing enough change coaching staffs from one year to the next. I do agree with you about a west coast style of offense, but any coach would be hesitant about dropping back his QB after that fumble for a touchdown. In my mind, firing a coach is a last resort, and one poor half is not enough to fire him for. Hell, my HS team has had five bad GAMES, but firing a coach is trigger-happy.

He wasn't fired for having bad games. He was canned for not being able to finish off opponents that they are well ahead of. Especially in the case of the Bears, the offense let them, along withg one bad special teams play, back into the game, while the defense did a stellar job against, up until that game, on of the most productive offenses in the leauge.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-10-22 06:39am

Am I the only one picking this week?

SUN, OCT 22
Detroit at NY Jets Lions

Green Bay at Miami Packers

Philadelphia at Tampa Bay Buccaneers

San Diego at Kansas City Chargers

Carolina at Cincinnati Bengals

New England at Buffalo Bills

Pittsburgh at Atlanta Falcolns

Jacksonville at Houston Jaguars

Denver at Cleveland Broncos

Washington at Indianapolis Colts

Minnesota at Seattle Vikings

Arizona at Oakland Cardinals

MON, OCT 23
NY Giants at Dallas Cowboys

Bye: Chicago, Tennessee, St. Louis, New Orleans, San Francisco, Baltimore

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2006-10-22 12:12pm

A shitty week last week with the only saving grace that the Lions finally won a game.

Panthers > Bengals -this battle of big cats will be a pretty thorough beating since the bengals tackle like pussies

Chargers > Chiefs -Schottenheimer takes on Herman Edwards, the only coach more conservative than he is. The Chiefs also tackle like pussies

Aw fuck it: Lions > Jets
Dolphins > Packers -don't ask me to explain why since I just flipped a coin
Jaguars > Texans
Patriots > Bills
Eagles > Buccaneers
Steelers > Falcons -attaway to crap on your team, Vick!
Broncos > Browns
Cardinals > Raiders -Al Davis' Commiment To Ex-Lax continues...
Seahawks > Vikings
Redskins > Colts -classic boobytrap game. If the Skins lose, they're done for the year and so is their overpaid coaching staff.
Cowboys > Giants -looks like the Cowboys aren't the only team whose star offensive player is quitting on them. The difference is, Dallas has Terry Glenn to fall back on.

Qwerty 42 · Post by **Qwerty 42** » 2006-10-22 04:02pm

Holy crap, but did the Tampa Bay kicker come through.