Darth Wong wrote:Are you seriously suggesting that Trek is more believable if we always take character dialogue at face value?
I didn't say we should always take character dialog at face value. I said the "they're all morons!" explanation can lead to some really bizzarre conclusions, such as the possibility that a large and undoubtedly expensive warship was constructed and put into active service without bothering to test the technology that went into its main weapon.
Then again, see below...
Ted C wrote:How often has the Federation gone from a theory in someone's head to a full-size implementation without any intermediate testing (like in "New Ground", for example)?
Should we really expect the Romulans/Remans to be any less idiotic in their engineering practices?
Good point.
The things I'm forced to agree to because of B&B's incompetence...
Junghalli wrote:The things I'm forced to agree to because of B&B's incompetence...
Once you've seen them test a totally untried new technology by firing it directly at one of their own colonies, you begin to understand why I consider the "Starfleet morons" hypothesis to be quite reasonable in most cases.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Junghalli wrote:The things I'm forced to agree to because of B&B's incompetence...
Once you've seen them test a totally untried new technology by firing it directly at one of their own colonies, you begin to understand why I consider the "Starfleet morons" hypothesis to be quite reasonable in most cases.
What annoys me about the whole 'soliton wave' thing, apart from somehow increasing in energy all by itself is the idea that it could replace warp drive, seeing as how it would only be viable for planet-to-planet transit and utterly useless for deep space exploration (a major handicap for a race like the Federation, naturally). And having no control of your direction or speed if you lacked warp drive is frankly, just shit.
You don't have much in the way of control of your direction in a train, either. They're still in widespread use. While the soliton wave can by no means replace Warp drive it might have made a worthwile alternative for intra-UFP planet-to-planet travel (if they had bothered to work out the bugs first assuming the thing isn't actually LESS efficient in the long run, and assuming they could actually get it to work safely in the first place).
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
Batman wrote:You don't have much in the way of control of your direction in a train, either. They're still in widespread use. While the soliton wave can by no means replace Warp drive it might have made a worthwile alternative for intra-UFP planet-to-planet travel (if they had bothered to work out the bugs first assuming the thing isn't actually LESS efficient in the long run, and assuming they could actually get it to work safely in the first place).
That is a valid point; frequent extra-solar travel seems to be beyond the means of average Federation citizens due to the lack of many privately-owned starcraft (either because of prohibitive cost, or restrictions imposed by the Federation's communistic society). A soliton wave-esque device would make travel far more practical for those who aren't particularly important or involved with Starfleet, and could concievably be a boon for the Federation economy and military establishment as well; Starfleet resources wouldn't have to be allocated for every little delivery mission or passenger escort, freeing them up for other duties and reducing the strain on the fleet.
The train analogy is good, but with trains at least someone, i.e. the driver is in control. I would guess that craft that used the system would probably have to be fitted with a means to exit the wave if a problem arose.
I think what happened with the wave was what passed as a 'test' in the eyes of the Federation, with its nearly wiping out an entire colony as an unfortunate accident.
The long charge up time is easily rationalized by the weapon only having one setting, which would have been immense overkill against the Enterprise. It's pretty obvious it was designed as a strategic weapon: it's way too slow and cumbersome to be used at all against any ship that wasn't helpless.
Are sure Shinzon was a big enough idiot to use a planet killer to destroy the Enterprise? While there is no proof that there are miltiple power settings, there is nothing to the contrary. If Shinzon truely wanted to destroy the ship easily, wouldn't he have tried to get some backup? Of course, this guy is enough of a Bond villain that I'm suprised he wasn't stroking a white Tribble while giving orders.
chitoryu12 wrote:
Are sure Shinzon was a big enough idiot to use a planet killer to destroy the Enterprise?
The term 'by a landslide' comes to mind. The guy makes Sybok look brilliant.
While there is no proof that there are multiple power settings, there is nothing to the contrary.
Absence of evidence IS evidence of absence. No proof for multiple power settings means there is no reason to assume there ARE multiple power settings.
If Shinzon truely wanted to destroy the ship easily, wouldn't he have tried to get some backup?
From where? Evidence that Shinzon had any naval support is what, exactly?
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
If Shinzon truely wanted to destroy the ship easily, wouldn't he have tried to get some backup?
He didn't need backup. The Scimitar chewed through two warbirds with ease, the only reason it didn't blow up the Enterprise outright is because Shinzon explicitly ordered his gunner to disable the ship (remember, at that point he still needed to suck Picard's blood).
It's only after Picard does his ramming attack that Shinzon decides to blow up the Enterprise and at that point the only working weapon he has left if the thalaron lightshow.
