For those curious about the SCA....

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2006-10-18 07:22pm

The Kingdom of Æthelmearc, of the Society for Creative Anachronism, held the Royal Crown Tourney Oct 14. One good gentle videotaped the final bouts and posted them to YouTube. The fighter in black and yellow is an old friend of mine, Duke Sir Rurik Longsword. The other is The Honorable Lord Magnus Tindal. There are 4 bouts, two cut in half by a 'hold' or pause for the marshalls to referee for a moment. The bouts are SingleSword, PoleArm, Sword & Shield (yes, Rurik's nickname is the '3-dog Knight' for his shield), and Florentine (two swords, Rurik is using the 'cruxiform-style' defence)

Round 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ig4fIYtLe4s

Round 2a (to hold): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bEcxUf_FPo

Round 2b: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSdY68ATF1c

Round 3a (to hold): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecxg39i3Z50

Round 3b: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaXL5T-GWYM

Round 4 and final: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRMo5SZRLFc

The quality isn't great, but at least youtube is free.

LaserRifleofDoom · Post by **LaserRifleofDoom** » 2006-10-18 11:28pm

Crazy...

This is really weird crazy timing for this thread to appear. I am considering joining my local SCA group. This would be the Midrealm... but still.

Any advice?

EIDT: It also appears that Sir Rurik is a lefty. Am I right?

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-10-18 11:32pm

Boo - I see no knees, elbows or dirty play. What form of battle is this?

There's far too many niceties in SCA combat, not to say that its not fun to watch though.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2006-10-19 01:21pm

LaserRifleofDoom wrote:Crazy...

This is really weird crazy timing for this thread to appear. I am considering joining my local SCA group. This would be the Midrealm... but still.

Any advice?

EIDT: It also appears that Sir Rurik is a lefty. Am I right?

Yes, Rurik is a lefty, and one of the fastest sword-swingers in Æthelmearc.

As for suggestions? Try everything once. Sewing, fighting, archery, calligraphy... whatever someone can teach you, try it. Get involved in the group, go to meetings and fighterpractices. You'll never know when you find something you like

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2006-10-19 01:46pm

weemadando wrote:Boo - I see no knees, elbows or dirty play. What form of battle is this?

There's far too many niceties in SCA combat, not to say that its not fun to watch though.

Well.. it is supposed to be Honourable Combat between Noble Lords, ando. And hits are based on an honour system of what a 'killing' blow should feel like. Ask Nitram how hard a killing blow is. He's been in armour.

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2006-10-19 03:20pm

LadyTevar wrote:Well.. it is supposed to be Honourable Combat between Noble Lords, ando. And hits are based on an honour system of what a 'killing' blow should feel like. Ask Nitram how hard a killing blow is. He's been in armour.

When you say, "And hits are based on an honour system of what a 'killing' blow should feel like," are you referring how the blows feel to the person being hit: "That felt like I received a killing blow so you win." I can't imagine the indivudal dealing the blow decides if it is a killing blow or not. I assume the "victim" decides, yes? That's what it looks like to me: In the last video the man in green takes a hit to the right side of his torso and immediately drops to the ground. The video before that one of them takes a blow to the head and drops.

It all looks very interesting but I'm not sure what's happening.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2006-10-19 03:55pm

Yes. The one receiving the blow decides if the hit was hard enough to be a kill. If the audio was better, you could have heard the combatants at one point calling out "Light!", which means they acknowledge the hit, but it wasn't hard enough.

Trust me, you don't want to lie about a blow not being hard enough. "Rhino-hiders" as we call them, often find out that a blow can always be thrown harder... and if all else fails, the athletic cup *IS* a valid target, just a normally 'dishonourable' kill.

In fact, I believe the 'hold' was called because one gentle wasn't sure if a shot was a good hit or not, and needed a Marshall to referee if it was a solid hit or a glancing blow.

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-10-19 04:32pm

Just play with bokken and no armour. Then you know exactly when you've been hit and you don't have cheap fuckers calling "light" because they can't call anything with cracked ribs.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2006-10-19 04:46pm

The idea is Fun and Safety, Ando...

Like Vahalla, you should be able to fight all day, then enjoy a delicious feast with lovely wenches and much beer afterwards. Hard to do that if you've got broken ribs.

Broken fingers are not uncommon. Bruises the size of dinner plates are common, and something to brag about. "Oh yeah.. that's where Sir Rurik got me... What a fight that was! There we were......"

Hell... some of the good fight stories last longer than the bruises! I should really tell the story of my ex-husband where he charged uphill into the polearm. He folded over the end of the polearm and it moved his athletic cup from the force of his charge meeting the fighter's set polearm. "Erk! ........ i'll... take that...... (THUD)"

Kettch · Post by **Kettch** » 2006-10-19 11:38pm

LadyTevar wrote:The idea is Fun and Safety, Ando...

Like Vahalla, you should be able to fight all day, then enjoy a delicious feast with lovely wenches and much beer afterwards. Hard to do that if you've got broken ribs.

Broken fingers are not uncommon. Bruises the size of dinner plates are common, and something to brag about. "Oh yeah.. that's where Sir Rurik got me... What a fight that was! There we were......"

Hell... some of the good fight stories last longer than the bruises! I should really tell the story of my ex-husband where he charged uphill into the polearm. He folded over the end of the polearm and it moved his athletic cup from the force of his charge meeting the fighter's set polearm. "Erk! ........ i'll... take that...... (THUD)"

I'm working w/ a group studying Blossfechten in the style of Johannes Lichtenauer at a Connecticut based sword group, WSTR. The primary weapon is a German Long Sword. (AKA, Hand & Half or Bastard). At least once a month we free spar. The equipment is padded triple PVC swords, Fencing Hemets, & reinforced gloves (hockey, lacross or motorbike). We've only had one major injury, where a thumb got crushed due to bad placement during a counter cut at full strength, hence the heavier duty gloves. We are looking into heavier duty clavical protection, but other wise we're pretty happy as is.

And yes we do grappelling techniques. Grappels show up all over the place in the texts, from I.33 to Meyer, into the rapier texts. We may have an image of noble combat, but the real part that matters is what you do with your opponent when he is down. Remember, the knights thin dagger was called the mercy dagger. Heck I have heard of one Fechtbücher which describes throwing your opennent into a sack. But then the C is in the SCA for a reason.

CDiehl · Post by **CDiehl** » 2006-10-19 11:38pm

Just play with bokken and no armour. Then you know exactly when you've been hit and you don't have cheap fuckers calling "light" because they can't call anything with cracked ribs.

Yeah, have fun with the broken ribs and messed-up nose. Like Tevar said, most activities of this sort are run with rules designed to keep people safe and let them all have fun together. The guy who rhino-hides, calls "light" on every hit, and swings his weapon like he's trying to win the World Series is not contributing to anyone else's fun but his. While this is fine when you play a video game by yourself, it sucks badly when you're with dozens of people (or more) who all paid good money to participate in the event.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-10-20 12:03am

LadyTevar wrote:The idea is Fun and Safety, Ando...

Like Vahalla, you should be able to fight all day, then enjoy a delicious feast with lovely wenches and much beer afterwards. Hard to do that if you've got broken ribs.

Broken fingers are not uncommon. Bruises the size of dinner plates are common, and something to brag about. "Oh yeah.. that's where Sir Rurik got me... What a fight that was! There we were......"

Hell... some of the good fight stories last longer than the bruises! I should really tell the story of my ex-husband where he charged uphill into the polearm. He folded over the end of the polearm and it moved his athletic cup from the force of his charge meeting the fighter's set polearm. "Erk! ........ i'll... take that...... (THUD)"

It's definitely what I've seen it as. Rules and such not are to make it in essence a sport rather then two men sweaty and grunting with large wooden death sticks(which can be fun but very very painful).

I mean fighting with Bokken and all the associated weaponry contributes to a more realistic combat or you could go for steel...and honestly even wood does not compare in sheer fear...but most people are not going to ever go that route.

It looks fun, and thanks for the videos.

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-10-20 02:46am

I'm not a great fan of the SCA styles - though what Kettch posted looks very similar to what I've done in the past.

As for injuries - the worst we've had was when a dickhead turned up and "forgot" that he'd very recently had a broken arm. It had apparently just set. And then it wasn't anymore. Aside from some nasty finger jams etc it had always been fairly clean.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2006-10-20 10:32pm

You're welcome, Ghostie.

I'm glad everyone liked them, and I'm very proud of my friend Rurik. This is his third time on the throne ('Duke' is reserved for those who've been King more than once in SCA).

DrMckay · Post by **DrMckay** » 2006-10-21 09:27pm

This sounds interesting, but I have a couple of questions if you don't mind

1. how common are these (clubs/groups?) locally, are they easy to find/join, through say a community center or college campus?
2. are there any rules or mythology involved of which I should be aware to avoid any misunderstandings? (aside from not doing anything blatantly stupid of course...)

3.I fence, (am capable in sabre and mre in epee, but have been doing foil for a longer time,) How different from conventional fencing is the SCA stuff?

thanks for your time, sorry if I got a bit too specific.

Erik von Nein · Post by **Erik von Nein** » 2006-10-21 11:03pm

DrMckay wrote:This sounds interesting, but I have a couple of questions if you don't mind

I'm not Tevar but I've done SCA, so I can help out some.

DrMckay wrote:1. how common are these (clubs/groups?) locally, are they easy to find/join, through say a community center or college campus?

It really heavily depends on whether there's an active group near you. THere're a couple supposively in my area, but they don't really do anything. The bigger events in the "kingdom" that you're in, though, are usually more fun to attend and are usually fairly well attended. You can go to the SCA's website and check to see which kingdom you're in and which of the smaller groups (shires, townships, those kinds of things) are immediately around you. Check their calender to see if they're actually doing anything.

Basically, the bigger the city the more likely they are to have an active group.

DrMckay wrote:2. are there any rules or mythology involved of which I should be aware to avoid any misunderstandings? (aside from not doing anything blatantly stupid of course...)

The only big on people will constantly remind you of is, if you go without garb on, they'll tell you, quite often, that you're naked. Other than that, just be somewhat respectful of the lords and ladies (you'll know them, they wear crowns

). It's really just a big group of drunken re-enactors, so it's all fun and games.

DrMckay wrote:3.I fence, (am capable in sabre and mre in epee, but have been doing foil for a longer time,) How different from conventional fencing is the SCA stuff?

Tevar can probably answer that one better, but, so far as I could tell, the only difference is that you can move a lot more and that you have heavier clothes. Nothing else really seemed to change.

DrMckay wrote:thanks for your time, sorry if I got a bit too specific.

Hey, you can never be too specific. It's a real fun thing if you can make it to events and everyone's usually pretty cool about helping out the new people.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2006-10-22 05:27am

LadyTevar wrote:As for suggestions? Try everything once. Sewing, fighting, archery, calligraphy... whatever someone can teach you, try it. Get involved in the group, go to meetings and fighterpractices. You'll never know when you find something you like

I recommend that he signs up for one of these fights, then pulls out a bag of ping-pong balls and starts pelting his opponent while screaming "Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt!" over and over. Then posts video of the result on YouTube for my amusement.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2006-10-22 04:00pm

DrMckay wrote:This sounds interesting, but I have a couple of questions if you don't mind.

1. how common are these (clubs/groups?) locally, are they easy to find/join, through say a community center or college campus?

The SCA is now an International Organization. The main website has a list of the Kingdoms of the SCA with links to each one's website, as well as other links to help you find the group nearest you. Each group should have a 'Chatelaine', whose job is to welcome and aid newcomers as much as possible.

2. are there any rules or mythology involved of which I should be aware to avoid any misunderstandings? (aside from not doing anything blatantly stupid of course...)

There's an old SCA joke: If you've seen the following movies, you will love the SCA. "Excalibur", "KnightRiders", "MontyPython's Quest for the Holy Grail", and "Highlander". Newer versions of the joke include "RobinHood: Men in Tights", and "Braveheart".

For more information, I turn once again to the SCA's main website, where one of the first links says "New to the SCA? START HERE". Not only is it a great FAQ, but it offers many links to articles and PDFs on Who/What the SCA is, How to Find a Group, What to Wear, How to Chose a Name/Time Period, and What Can I Do?

Now, each kingdom has slightly different customs. Some are stuffy, some are relaxed, depending on who started the first group(s) in the area and their views of how things should be.
For example, in MidRealm, only someone who has been granted the title of Lord/Lady may wear a metal or leather headband decorated with a stone, as that is a symbol of the rank to them. In East Kingdom or my own Æthelmearc, we don't care if you wear a headband, as long as it's smaller than an inch wide, and not carved/decorated with symbols reserved for higher ranks (baron, count, duke, royalty).

3.I fence, (am capable in sabre and mre in epee, but have been doing foil for a longer time,) How different from conventional fencing is the SCA stuff?

Ahhh.. another wire-weinnie (as opposed to a 'stick-jock'). You should speak to Don Danulf at the Academy of Defence. Beware of Puns. The fencers wits are as sharp as their rapiers. Don Danulf plays in East Kingdom, but he has links to the rules of the Society as a whole, as well as a few other kingdoms.

I hope this helps answer your questions, and leads you to others who have far more experience than I. There is one tradition in the SCA that is universal. If you don't know something, politely ask the closest Scadian. If the person you ask doesn't know, chances are they can point you to someone who has the answers. But above all, be polite, be gentlemanly, be courteous to all, and you'll find yourself a wealth of new friends.

DrMckay · Post by **DrMckay** » 2006-10-22 04:08pm

Ok, Thank you all for the info, This sounds like something I may want to get involved with when I get a little older, ( maybe wiser too, but ya never know...) thanks again.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2006-10-22 07:31pm

DrMckay wrote:Ok, Thank you all for the info, This sounds like something I may want to get involved with when I get a little older, ( maybe wiser too, but ya never know...) thanks again.

How old are you, out of curiousity?

And if you are in 'CA', the SCA started in Berkeley.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2006-10-22 08:36pm

Someday, I want to get a replica viking longship, fill it with friends, and sack a rennaissance faire. They'd never see it coming :-p

DrMckay · Post by **DrMckay** » 2006-10-22 09:30pm

17, a senior in high school, (with the associated colllege apps, essays and AP classes,) and I live in the Bay Area. I read the links you posted, until then, I had no idea that it had started in Berkeley. cool.

Around a year ago, I saw three guys in leather armor and helmets whacking each other with PVC swords, ( in the parking lot of a BART (light rail) station) it looked interesting, and fun.

odds are, I will probably get involved in college or after, but, as of now, I just have a ton on my plate.

oh. yeah, and Chewie, while attacking a Rennaissance Faire with a Viking longship and crew, would be funny, In my personal opinion, attacking an Ultra-Hardcore Civil War re-enactment would be downright hilarious.

So, If you ever get around to doing either, remember to videotape and youtube it....

Kettch · Post by **Kettch** » 2006-10-23 12:02am

DrMckay wrote:odds are, I will probably get involved in college or after, but, as of now, I just have a ton on my plate.

Then what are doing wasting you time posting on this board?

If you are intrested in a lower $$$ investment & getting into Medieval combat look at HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) groups There is of corse ARMA, though some complain that they think they own anything concerning HEMA in america. Their web site does have some good articles, & even some fighting treatsies.

Another good free source of fight manuals is http://www.schielhau.org

There are groups arround, I live near Hartford CT & there are 5 groups with in a 2 hr drive.

There is usually a session cost or dues (for insurance at the very least). If you wish to aquire your own waster It'll set you back $65-75. SCA combat gear can easily start at over $500 for a beginner's set of armor & weapons.

It comes down to what your intrest is, a fantasy medieval culture immersion, or historical recreation of combat techniques. For just as foil fencing is different then real rapier combat, SCA combat is different than actual combat techniques. Of course if you have the time, you can do both.

Or if you really want to burn some cash you can do Steel on Steel:

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2006-10-23 12:58am

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Someday, I want to get a replica viking longship, fill it with friends, and sack a rennaissance faire. They'd never see it coming :-p

I'd be up for it.

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2006-10-23 01:58am

LadyTevar wrote:Yes. The one receiving the blow decides if the hit was hard enough to be a kill. If the audio was better, you could have heard the combatants at one point calling out "Light!", which means they acknowledge the hit, but it wasn't hard enough.

Trust me, you don't want to lie about a blow not being hard enough. "Rhino-hiders" as we call them, often find out that a blow can always be thrown harder... and if all else fails, the athletic cup *IS* a valid target, just a normally 'dishonourable' kill.

In fact, I believe the 'hold' was called because one gentle wasn't sure if a shot was a good hit or not, and needed a Marshall to referee if it was a solid hit or a glancing blow.

Just getting back to checking after being away most of the week...

Thanks for all of this info, LadyTevar. Very informative, and interesting!