Check out this...

Antediluvian · Post by **Antediluvian** » 2002-12-26 07:10pm

load of crap:

http://evolutionlie.faithweb.com/

Hoo boy.

Do they ever give up?

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2002-12-26 07:24pm

They sure don't have to worry about anyone critizing their site. Their multiple pop-up add defense will keep most rational thinkers at bay.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2002-12-26 07:35pm

Seen that a long time ago because it's the first site on the Yahoo! category "Evolution vs Creation" list. It's alos how I found Cworg and, then you guys

It's also the worst science of a creationist site ever! I mean, the Laetolli footprints dinosaurs? Come on!

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2002-12-26 07:48pm

well, their forum is creationweb. And it has been owned by Science. With a small contribution from SD.net.

Fundies beware..

We're everywhere

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2002-12-26 07:54pm

Colonel Olrik wrote:Fundies beware..

We're everywhere

That should be the new battle cry for when we invade idiot fundie boards. All invaders should have it in their sigs.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2002-12-26 08:08pm

Those don't look like any human bones in those fucking boots.

No verifiable record of human civilization goes back more than 6,000 years. Civilization like everything else appears suddenly in the historical record.

So what? If there was no human civillization more than 6,000 years ago, then why should there be any verifiable record of it?

The rotation of these galaxies, over the course of billions of years would lose their spiral shape. Since they obviously retain this shape, they must only be thousands of years old.

How the fuck does that work?

Oh, I love that link they gave talking about why dinosaurs are in the Bible. Their arguements are so childish and unfounded I don't even have to discredit them, they do it themselves.

Some trilobites had eye lenses made of calcite (thousands found). Because they are made of "rock", paleontologists have been able to study the lenses and have found several interesting things. Unlike human eyes, which are composed of a single lens, the trilobite eye is composed of a double lens design with up to 15,000 separate lens surfaces in each eye. Billions and billions of years could not "evolve" something this complex. It had to be created, with complete knowledge of Abbe's sine law and Fermat's principle.

It only LOOKS complex. No matter how multi-faceted a lens surface is, if all it does is detect shadow and light, it's not too damn complex, now is it?

This lame argument has long been used to prove evolution. It does describe a form of evolution, just not the way evolutionists would have you think. This study simply shows micro-evolution, or change within a kind, not a new kind coming into existence.. It boils down to: when the trees are white, there are more white moths - conversely, when the trees are dark, such as from pollution, more of the dark moths survive to pass this trait along. The moths are still moths. They don't become a whole new creature.

No, they aren't a new creature. But evolution does not require a new species to be created for it to work. Simply having certain traits that give a higher rate of survival is evolution.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2002-12-26 09:36pm

heh, I didn't read it all but from what I read it's a load of crap. It lists scientific mistakes as if it were a accepted fact along with a couple of minor mistakes that we have since moved on from.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2002-12-26 10:08pm

Most branches of modern science were founded by believers in creation.

Appeal to authority. Besides, half the people listed died before Darwin came up with the theory!

So an oft-repeated charge that no real scientist rejects evolution is completely without foundation.

These people are really bad at math. Over 95% of all scientists accept evolution, with the other 5% likely to be the result of a lifetime of religous indoctration.

The best argument that there is a GOD - and it often moved me deeply - is this one that he proves from generation of species: a cow always bears a cow, a horse a horse, etc. No goldfinch produces a siskin. Therefore it is necessary to conclude that there is something that directs everything thus. ---Martin Luther (350 yrs. before Darwin).

These people really think they can refute evolution from a quote by a fundie from the Middle Ages?

In fact, science has advanced to the point that almost all secular scientists have completely abandoned "Darwinian" evolution in favor of "rapid mutation", "radial symmetry", "punctuated equilibrium", or variations of this far-out theory.

In fact, science has advanced to the point where almost all secular scientists have abandones Creationism.

Noting the abundance of fossils, numerous transitionals must be found to prove my theory." Enough said !

And the transitionals have been found.

7. Stasis -- This field of observation studies the fact that most animals have remained the same, despite millions of years of time to evolve. Many fossils from older rocks, when compared to their modern counterparts, are often identical in form. Not one type of change into another has ever been recorded, yet evolution is regarded in most circles as fact.

When will Creationists ever realize evolution isn't a magical change into another species?

9. Petrified trees -- This represents an enormous enigma to evolutionists. They speak of a different kind of burial than is going on today. They also point to a catastrophic event, rather than slow burial. Their bark remains intact, indicating a very different method of deposition than we now currently know. This speaks of an event of enormous power.

Have these people ever been to Petrified Forest National Park? I'm sure people there will explain it them.

13. The first Law of Thermodynamics -- It states: There can be no creation or annihilation of mass/energy. One form of energy can be converted into another, one state of matter can be converted into another,and there can even be matter/energy conversions. However the total amount of matter and energy remains constant. What does this mean? The universe could not just spring into existence by accident.

What does this have to do with Evolution? Also, the Big Bang wasn't "something coming from nothing".

20. The Human Eye -- Darwin said that the human eye made him shudder in terms of the evolutionary process - and rightly so. In his day almost nothing was known about the complexity and sophistication of this organ. In fact, we still don't know everything. It is able to do 100,000 separate functions each and every day, then while you sleep, do its own maintenance work. Truly one of the wonders of GOD. Considering the amount of complex structures that went into the eye, as well as the highly integrated synchronization, it is difficult to understand how the evolutionists can believe the eye came from a natural trial and error process. The eye is well known to be useless unless fully developed. It is ridiculous to think that any organism could live, let alone develop, during the thousands of years evolutionists say it would take to develop an eye. That's not all, however. The eye did not develop once. There are five different types of eyes (that we know of) - man's, squids,vertebrates,arthropods, and trilobite eyes. Enough said!

Good Lord... Not this argument again. The eye didn't start as a human eye, is started as a light-sensitive cell.

30. World Population Growth Rate -- In recent times is about 2% per year. Practicable application of growth rate throughout human history would be about half that number. Wars, disease, famine, etc. have wiped out approximately one third of the population on average every 82 years. Starting with eight people, and applying these growth rates since the Flood of Noah's day (about 4500 years ago) would give a total human population at just under six billion people. However, application on an evolutionary time scale runs into major difficulties. Starting with one "couple" just 41,000 years ago would give us a total population of 2 x 10 to the89th. The universe does not have space to hold so many bodies.

I'm not commenting on this. Human growth is not constant, and in the past, there were far more plauges and famines than there are now.

35. Biblical description of dinosaurs -- The Bible describes several dinosaurs in such detail that there can be no doubt they were around in antedeluvian times and for a short time afterwards. If dinosaurs co-existed with man, then evolution is dead in the water. For a thorough explanation of these creatures and there existence in historical times

A Creationist appealing to the Bible as fact. Somehow, I'm not suprised.

That wasn't the best I could do, but I'm sure someone else could finish them.[/quote]

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2002-12-26 10:27pm

13. The first Law of Thermodynamics -- It states: There can be no creation or annihilation of mass/energy. One form of energy can be converted into another, one state of matter can be converted into another,and there can even be matter/energy conversions. However the total amount of matter and energy remains constant. What does this mean? The universe could not just spring into existence by accident.

14. The Second Law of Thermodynamics -- This is my all-time favorite. To refute this law, you either have to be a liar or ignorant of science totally. This law tells us that anything which is organized , tends with time, to become disorganized. Any physical system left to itself will decay, or , lose energy and organization within the system. Instead of being highly organized like our earth's system, everything tends to become gradually disorganized. Chemical processes will reach equilibrium then become inert. In other words, this law says the increase of information required for a life form to evolve could not happen as this increase in information by itself violates the law. Evolutionists would have you believe in a constant increase in order strictly by chance millions of times. Not possible!! In fact, evolutionists have cited ice cubes and bridges as an example of this law being violated. Absurd! Both of these things reach a peak of "order", but from then on are degrading. Besides, these things are "created", so of course they would tend to start off "ordered". Neither of these things, or anything else, can assemble itself from raw materials.
ASIDE: Evolutionists commonly object that the Second Law applies to closed, or isolated systems, and that the Earth is certainly not a closed system (it gets lots of raw energy from the Sun, for example). However, all systems, whether open or closed, tend to deteriorate. For example, living organisms are open systems but they all decay and die. Also, the universe in total is a closed system. To say that the chaos of the big bang has transformed itself into the human brain with its 120 trillion connections is a clear violation of the Second Law.
For a very detailed explanation that answers the critics, click here.
Another great explanation here.

Then later he tries to say that humans existed along with dinosaurs.

Mr Flibble · Post by **Mr Flibble** » 2002-12-27 01:59am

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:
20. The Human Eye -- Darwin said that the human eye made him shudder in terms of the evolutionary process - and rightly so. In his day almost nothing was known about the complexity and sophistication of this organ. In fact, we still don't know everything. It is able to do 100,000 separate functions each and every day, then while you sleep, do its own maintenance work. Truly one of the wonders of GOD. Considering the amount of complex structures that went into the eye, as well as the highly integrated synchronization, it is difficult to understand how the evolutionists can believe the eye came from a natural trial and error process. The eye is well known to be useless unless fully developed. It is ridiculous to think that any organism could live, let alone develop, during the thousands of years evolutionists say it would take to develop an eye. That's not all, however. The eye did not develop once. There are five different types of eyes (that we know of) - man's, squids,vertebrates,arthropods, and trilobite eyes. Enough said!
Good Lord... Not this argument again. The eye didn't start as a human eye, is started as a light-sensitive cell.

Actually according to my biology text book, there is evidence some predatory single celled dinoflagellates, sort of amoebae, have a lens and a light sensitive reinoid, as organelles, to hunt their prey. This shows a very simple starting point for the evolution of light sensitive organs.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-27 02:06am

I like the way these idiots think that decay is a sign of decreasing complexity (since they think entropy and complexity are opposites). It is actually a sign of increasing complexity; the body is at its purest, simplest state when it is one cell.

I also like the way they think death is an increase in entropy, when a dead body actually has less entropy in it than a living one.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2002-12-27 02:30am

20. The Human Eye -- Darwin said that the human eye made him shudder in terms of the evolutionary process - and rightly so. In his day almost nothing was known about the complexity and sophistication of this organ. In fact, we still don't know everything. It is able to do 100,000 separate functions each and every day, then while you sleep, do its own maintenance work. Truly one of the wonders of GOD. Considering the amount of complex structures that went into the eye, as well as the highly integrated synchronization, it is difficult to understand how the evolutionists can believe the eye came from a natural trial and error process. The eye is well known to be useless unless fully developed. It is ridiculous to think that any organism could live, let alone develop, during the thousands of years evolutionists say it would take to develop an eye. That's not all, however. The eye did not develop once. There are five different types of eyes (that we know of) - man's, squids,vertebrates,arthropods, and trilobite eyes. Enough said!

If eyes are so perfect, why the fuck do I need glasses to read road signs?
Am I being punished by GOD or is he an inperfect bio-engineer?

48. Sequential Ages -- You remember them from school, right? Stone Age, Copper, Brass, Bronze, Iron, etc. Evolutionists would have you believe man developed in this sequential order. No way! A quick look at middle-east history and archaeology show that the Israelites possessed iron when neighbors all around had brass. You remember the National Geographic specials...The natives in Africa in the 50's and 60's were still using wood and stone tools. Are they true man, or some throwback, or "missing link" ? How about the American Indians of the 1800's? They used wood and stone tools. Were they true man ? There are still tribes in South America that use wood and stone tools exclusively. Are they living missing links ? This mentality is what caused thousands of Australian Aborigines to be killed and their heads cut off and shipped to museums in America. Scientists thought they were the living "missing link". Their skulls were displayed to the public using this argument of stone age technology. How sad.

So just because history has a iron age and so forth automatically means all humans everywhere at once, where supposed to advance at the same level?
Retards.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-27 02:34am

These donkey-raping assholes think that the Native Americans are not "true man", but some kind of "throwback" or "missing link"? Is their site logo a fucking swastika?

Dooey Jo · Post by **Dooey Jo** » 2002-12-27 06:50am

35. Biblical description of dinosaurs -- The Bible describes several dinosaurs in such detail that there can be no doubt they were around in antedeluvian times and for a short time afterwards. If dinosaurs co-existed with man, then evolution is dead in the water.

Intresting. Now were does the theory of evolution say: "Dinosaurs did not co-exist with man, and if they did, this theory is dead in the water". It's funny because, even if man did exist with dinosaurs, that doesn't disprove evolution. They usually get very silent when you point this out to them. And then they get angry and starts using the famous ad hominem...

:roll::lol:8)

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2002-12-27 02:18pm

50 REASONS TO LEAVE YOUR FAITH (evolution)

Ohhhhhhh!!!!!
What makes these people think athiests or evolutionist thiests believe in Evolution because we have faith. For some reason they assume that we, just like them, put all our chips on evolution as if it were a roulette game. If it were then scientists would not be able to find mor4e and more evidence that the ball will fall in Darwin's pocket!

Science, real science—the work that ferrets out empirical facts about the nature that surrounds us—has been co-opted by an ancient philosophical/religious doctrine the origins of which can be traced back to at least 400-700 years before Christ. Known today variously as scientism, evolutionism, metaphysical naturalism, and Darwinism, this doctrine has been so effectively interlaced with science that it is often difficult for the scientist, much less the layperson, to separate the two.

Here the idiot confuses Evolution with Aristotilian/Ptolomian Philosophy, which unlike evolution, was the backbone for the church philosophy and the reason Galileo was sentenced to life inprisonment. This philosophy is the one with the earth being a flat disc at the center of the universe with the sun and stars and planets moving around it in perfect Platonic cirles.
What Foul Dreg!

4:Sedimentary layering only happens when sediments form on top of older sediments, thus only in streams and rivers and lakes and the like, most of Earth's surface changes between lake and normal ground in cycles, except in the case of mountains or areas where there is little water. This is why fossils are found in mountains which formed after the ground it's made of was at the bottem of a lake or ocean, and why you can find lots of fossils under the sahara, because it was changed into desert by overgrazing of cattle by cattle herders which created a large dry desert.

5: Same reason, that part just did not get any sediment during that era, it was a bit of dry land.

8:They have found protovertabrates, lungfish are still available they found them in the 60's I think, Archeopterx is an example of a feathered lizard, dental records or dimetrodons and certain fossils of furry reptiles have been found linking mammals to dinosaurs, these mammals eventually were successful as small rodents, then after the mass extintion as proto possums and mice and small land animals, then proto possums were found to be linked to monkeys, monkeys started living on the ground or lost their talls but stayed up in the trees, and became eventually numerous species of apes, big Gorillas, angry chimpanzees, very friendly bonobos, orangotangs(excuse spelling), and what's this! Homonids! Bipedal apes with the ability to make tools, then wait much less furry apes that did the same, and whoops neaderthals and cromagnons! And the cromagnons did make war on the neanderthals and they did destroy them in Europe and settle down and have little german babies. But wait this one is scratching his head, "What's wrong?"
"Og cannot find flint tool, me make new one"
And thus wass life until they had big enough brains to eventually figure out where they put things down(they still have problems with this today)
If you cannot read this, you've forgotten your glasses on your head again.

I suggest that we send this person a link to this thread so that they may bask in the glory of our superior intellect.

irishmick79 · Post by **irishmick79** » 2002-12-27 02:44pm

You think those guys are wankers, you should check out the Red Cedar Message Board. The board's primary function is discussion of Michigan State athletics, but the Well's Hall off topic board harbors the majority of political discussion. Choice posts are usually provided by StevenBee and OldWiseOne. Talk about dipshits.

http://www.spartantailgate.com/ubb/ulti ... =forum;f=3

C.S.Strowbridge · Post by **C.S.Strowbridge** » 2002-12-27 09:45pm

Wicked Pilot wrote:They sure don't have to worry about anyone critizing their site. Their multiple pop-up add defense will keep most rational thinkers at bay.

Thanks for the warning. I was going to click it till I saw the bit about the pop-ups. Pop-ups are the fruit on the devil.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2002-12-27 10:02pm

C.S.Strowbridge wrote:Pop-ups are the fruit on the devil.

Switch to Mozilla. It has a built-in popup killer.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2002-12-27 10:05pm

Enlightenment wrote:
C.S.Strowbridge wrote:Pop-ups are the fruit on the devil.
Switch to Mozilla. It has a built-in popup killer.

www.mozilla.org

jaeger115 · Post by **jaeger115** » 2002-12-30 07:03am

When will the invasion be?

My invasion plan: get as many SD.net members as we can so they can infilifrate(sp) their forums and outnumber them. Outnumbering is ABSOLUTELY essential if this is going to work. Then we all blow our cover AT the same time. I'd love to see the administrators ban one person, then five more comes up in his place!

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2002-12-30 06:02pm

Already had the invasion - their forum is CWorg.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-12-30 08:36pm

jaeger115 wrote:When will the invasion be?
My invasion plan: get as many SD.net members as we can so they can infilifrate(sp) their forums and outnumber them. Outnumbering is ABSOLUTELY essential if this is going to work. Then we all blow our cover AT the same time. I'd love to see the administrators ban one person, then five more comes up in his place!

The CreationWeb.org people invaded us a few months back. I missed the invasion, but apparently we fought them off.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2002-12-30 10:57pm

Darth Yoshi wrote:
jaeger115 wrote:When will the invasion be?
My invasion plan: get as many SD.net members as we can so they can infilifrate(sp) their forums and outnumber them. Outnumbering is ABSOLUTELY essential if this is going to work. Then we all blow our cover AT the same time. I'd love to see the administrators ban one person, then five more comes up in his place!
The CreationWeb.org people invaded us a few months back. I missed the invasion, but apparently we fought them off.

Speaking of that, there was talk about a set of debates with them. Did those ever happen? Also, do we still have people over there?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-12-30 11:12pm

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:
Darth Yoshi wrote:
jaeger115 wrote:When will the invasion be?
My invasion plan: get as many SD.net members as we can so they can infilifrate(sp) their forums and outnumber them. Outnumbering is ABSOLUTELY essential if this is going to work. Then we all blow our cover AT the same time. I'd love to see the administrators ban one person, then five more comes up in his place!
The CreationWeb.org people invaded us a few months back. I missed the invasion, but apparently we fought them off.
Speaking of that, there was talk about a set of debates with them. Did those ever happen? Also, do we still have people over there?

I'm pretty sure there was never a debate. I think a couple people are still browsing and reporting on there forums though.

SeebianWurm · Post by **SeebianWurm** » 2002-12-30 11:18pm

The apologist idiot wanted to debate "logic" - we refused to debate on such a topic, and after the gladiators offered several actual topics, it was generally considered lost