the one ring as a weapon?

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2002-12-26 08:17pm

Does anyone have an idea how the one ring could be used as a weapon?

I read that it would give its wearer long life, invisibility, and the ability to control the wearers of the other rings.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2002-12-26 08:19pm

Well, gold is pretty heavy, I'm sure if you chucked it at someone they'd get a bump or a bruise.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2002-12-26 08:22pm

Erm... You get invisible and stronger? I suppose you could try to choke somebody with it by shoving it down their throats.

Baron Mordo · Post by **Baron Mordo** » 2002-12-26 08:24pm

You wear it on your finger when you punch somebody.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-26 08:26pm

None of the Rings of Power were really weapons. Instead they offered the wearers control over creatures, elements, and such magic as there was.

Morning Star · Post by **Morning Star** » 2002-12-26 09:21pm

Stormbringer wrote:None of the Rings of Power were really weapons. Instead they offered the wearers control over creatures, elements, and such magic as there was.

Each was used in a different way though, so it would seem that they either have different powers, or it depends on the user.

Examples:

The Dwarves used them to create great hords of wealth.

The Elves used them to sustain their realms and keep them safe from fell beats.

The Men used them to rule over others as Kings and Sorcerors... until their fall.

The One could take the wearer to the wraith-world, show and control the minds and bodies of the other ring bearers and dominate others to your own will.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-26 09:26pm

Morning Star wrote:Examples:

The Dwarves used them to create great hords of wealth.

Yes, but exactly how did it bring them this wealth?

The Elves used them to sustain their realms and keep them safe from fell beats.

Their rings kept them immortal? Does that mean that without the rings they age?

The Men used them to rule over others as Kings and Sorcerors... until their fall.

Yes, but precisely how did it allow them to rule over others? Did it give them mind control? Superior military acumen?

The One could take the wearer to the wraith-world, show and control the minds and bodies of the other ring bearers and dominate others to your own will.

By "take the wearer to the wraith-world", do you mean "make him invisible?" And what about dominating others? If Sauron had the power to mind-control everyone with his ring, then how could the elves and humans form an army and fight him in the distant past?

I'm still unclear as to what the rings do.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2002-12-26 09:30pm

Elves are already immortal I think what the rings did was enhance the present abilities said being had at the time

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-26 09:52pm

So what's the big deal, then? I'm getting the feeling that those rings are like the power-up relics in UnrealTournament. Depending on which one you've got, it will make you invisible, stronger, faster, tougher, etc., but no matter which one you've got, a Redeemer will still blow your intestines out your asshole

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-12-26 09:56pm

Darth Wong wrote:Yes, but exactly how did it bring them this wealth?

IIRC, they would give the dwarves good impressions about where to dig for gold, diamonds, etc.

Their rings kept them immortal? Does that mean that without the rings they age?

No, and no. They used the rings to set up barriers (term used loosely) that would warn them of evil, thus safeguarding themselves.

Yes, but precisely how did it allow them to rule over others? Did it give them mind control? Superior military acumen?

Never explained directly, but reference were made to supernatural stunts that awed the masses.

By "take the wearer to the wraith-world", do you mean "make him invisible?" And what about dominating others? If Sauron had the power to mind-control everyone with his ring, then how could the elves and humans form an army and fight him in the distant past?

Being invisible appears to be a by-product of shifting planes.

Sauron's power (and the ring) has its limits. He can only corrupt those evil at heart (Saruman, Wormtongue, Gollum) and thse who are obsessed with power (Boromir, the Nazgul)

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-26 09:59pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Morning Star wrote:Examples:

The Dwarves used them to create great hords of wealth.
Yes, but exactly how did it bring them this wealth?

It guided their delving and was an aid to their smithworks.

Darth Wong wrote:
The Elves used them to sustain their realms and keep them safe from fell beats.
Their rings kept them immortal? Does that mean that without the rings they age?

No, it help sustain their realms which are some what unatural. In them time flows at a different. It prevented the "fading" of their realms.

Darth Wong wrote:
The Men used them to rule over others as Kings and Sorcerors... until their fall.
Yes, but precisely how did it allow them to rule over others? Did it give them mind control? Superior military acumen?

I assume it messed with their enemies minds. Probably something of the aura of fear that surrounded them as Nazgul as well as some limited powers of mass persuasions. Something the jedi mind trick en masse.

Darth Wong wrote:
The One could take the wearer to the wraith-world, show and control the minds and bodies of the other ring bearers and dominate others to your own will.
]By "take the wearer to the wraith-world", do you mean "make him invisible?" And what about dominating others? If Sauron had the power to mind-control everyone with his ring, then how could the elves and humans form an army and fight him in the distant past?

The invisibility is a side effect for someone that isn't a maiar or other spirit. They are dropped whole into the spirit/wraith world. Sauron (and presumably other Maiar and Elves of Aman) could peer into both. Unlike how it's portrayed in the book, the spirit world is no more than a little darker version of our world.

Because it's not complete control. It lures one in to the weilder but it can't overcome a very strong will. And elves have plenty of rage and hate for sauron as did the numenorian exiles that fought against him.

Yes the rings are useful and do weild power but not absolute god like power. They aren't meant as weapons. They are built to control and like all of the magic of middle earth, they work subtely.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2002-12-26 10:17pm

And on top of everything else magic in Ytolkiens univverse seems to follow the conservation of energy principal IE sublte easy stuff is well easy to do wanna blow apart a rock ,shatter a mountain,smash an army? you need to use a lot of power and that can be dangerous

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2002-12-26 10:23pm

Darth Wong:

Their rings kept them immortal? Does that mean that without the rings they age?

The Rings of power actually increase your own power. Elfs in terramedia are already immortal (even when they are slain, they do not really die). The wearers of the ring used the rings to keep the elf's splendour in their realms during that age, when the magic was fading. You see this in the movie, how Galadriel's forest is seem by Glimli. It help to preserve the realms safe. Of course, Tolkin description of powers is vague at best.

If Sauron had the power to mind-control everyone with his ring, then how could the elves and humans form an army and fight him in the distant past?

Actually, He almost have this power. But the elves found about the forgery of the one ring and could resist it. Otherwise they would fall as well.
You actually see few of the rings powers: How it make people desire to keep it, how it try to make the wearer to use it.

I'm still unclear as to what the rings do.

Tolkien did not wanted to explain it in any different way that the vague "the ring will allow him to control it all, etc". But since Tolkien's magic is something more subtle, I take the reaction of Galadriel or Gandalf that the ring makes the wearer increase their own power and then twist their vision maing only the wrong come from here. Very vague...

Depending on which one you've got, it will make you invisible, stronger, faster, tougher, etc., but no matter which one you've got, a Redeemer will still blow your intestines out your asshole

Of course. The ring was not dangerous under Gollum's hand. That only make him get more darky , skinny and a better fisheman...But if you get it in the hands of like of Sauron or Gandalf or Galadriel, that would be dangerous.
That is why hobbits are the heroes of the book...they are small, almost nothing, not powerful. They are not big strong warriors like Boromir or Aragorn, Great Magicians like Gandalf or Saruman or big leaders like Galadriel or Sauron...

Stormbringer

Unlike how it's portrayed in the book, the spirit world is no more than a little darker version of our world.

unlike the book ? You mean the movie ? (in the movie it looked like a darker version also...)

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-12-26 10:33pm

IG-88E wrote: Sauron's power (and the ring) has its limits. He can only corrupt those evil at heart (Saruman, Wormtongue, Gollum) and thse who are obsessed with power (Boromir, the Nazgul)

Explain Frodo and Bilbo.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-12-26 10:43pm

Howedar wrote:
IG-88E wrote: Sauron's power (and the ring) has its limits. He can only corrupt those evil at heart (Saruman, Wormtongue, Gollum) and thse who are obsessed with power (Boromir, the Nazgul)
Explain Frodo and Bilbo.

What's to explain? Both are good at heart.

In addition: nonhumans, especially hobbits, are also tougher to corrupt than men. The book states that Sauron wanted the Dwarves with rings to join the Nazgul, but was unable to corrupt them.

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2002-12-26 11:06pm

No, no.
The Dwarves are harder to be corrupted because they are Dwarves. Solid as rocks ; ) - they have a inate resistense to magic because they are dwarves after all. very hard to change a dwarves mind and stuff...
See, Saruman, non-human, corrupted. Gollum, non-human, corrupted...

Hobbits are harder to corrupt because they are "little people" discret and they never look outside their own city (Bilbo was a unlikely hobbit), they always leave the big stuff to the big people, this kind of behaviador, making the ring's manipulation harder since the ring ask for ambition, great powers, great needs, etc.

That explain both Bilbo and Frodo, plus the fact they had the ring for a relative short period. (Gollum had for centuries and ended corrupted. Bilbo was already showing few signs of the ring influence also).
You can corrupt the good as well (actually you only corrupt the good). Remember Gandalf ? He would want to use the ring for good but he would in the end to the evil ? Or Boromir , who actually wanted to do the good and was a good dude ? It is their great need and power that the ring twisted (or not) to the evil.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-26 11:22pm

OK, so as far as I can tell, all of this means that (going back to the thread topic) the rings are obviously not weapons. They are more like parlour tricks; helping you find gold, keeping your forest looking nice, boosting the morale of your men in battle, etc. The most powerful among them seems to be capable of corrupting people, but again, that's not really what you'd call a weapon.

So what's Sauron capable of when he has the ring? If he was felled by a sword even in that state, who's to say that he wouldn't have been defeated again if he got it again?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-26 11:32pm

Darth Wong wrote:OK, so as far as I can tell, all of this means that (going back to the thread topic) the rings are obviously not weapons. They are more like parlour tricks; helping you find gold, keeping your forest looking nice, boosting the morale of your men in battle, etc. The most powerful among them seems to be capable of corrupting people, but again, that's not really what you'd call a weapon.

Hardly palour tricks but no, only the One Ring was anything resembling a weapon. If you had read the Lord of the Rings closely you'd realize that thos rings weild a lot of power but are use in sublte ways.

Darth Wong wrote:So what's Sauron capable of when he has the ring? If he was felled by a sword even in that state, who's to say that he wouldn't have been defeated again if he got it again?

He was felled by an Elf of Aman and three of mankind's greatest warriors. And narsil and Gil-Galad's spear are hardly run of the mill weapons. There is Elven magic in them, powerf magic.

And Sauron, with all the Rings in his control, would have had the power eventually to enslave all of middle earth. Basically have the whole of the world enslaved like the Nazgul. A dire threat but one that takes time to carry out.

Yes Sauron might have been defeated again but there were few powers even capable of mounting a serious assualt of Mordor. Once he had the ring back he could have simply expanded his power gradually and there would have been no way for the to resist.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-26 11:37pm

IG-88E wrote:
Howedar wrote:
IG-88E wrote: Sauron's power (and the ring) has its limits. He can only corrupt those evil at heart (Saruman, Wormtongue, Gollum) and thse who are obsessed with power (Boromir, the Nazgul)
Explain Frodo and Bilbo.
What's to explain? Both are good at heart.

Both were being corrupted to a degree. They held off but the Ring was corrupting them. It corrupts anyone, good, bad or indifferent. It almost got Bilbo and it did get Frodo. You're claims don't hold water.

IG-88E wrote:In addition: nonhumans, especially hobbits, are also tougher to corrupt than men. The book states that Sauron wanted the Dwarves with rings to join the Nazgul, but was unable to corrupt them.

It corrupts non-humans with more diffuculty because they aren't as grasping for power as man. And Dwarves were created stubborn by Aule, they were simply at the very core of their being indomitable.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2002-12-26 11:45pm

Ok, guys. This clears up my question. I wasn't sure if the one ring had other powers since Boromir claimed it would be a great weapon to defend Gondor. So, if the one ring was brought to Gondor, it would probably quicken Gondor's fall.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2002-12-26 11:46pm

The movie isn't a perfect representation of the ring's powers. The book is better at that and has more degree of canon.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-26 11:49pm

Yes, the book is obviously canon while the movie is only a representation thereof. But the point is that the ring does not shoot fire at your enemies, rip the ground out from under them, or erect theatre shields. It might make you stronger, or allow you to turn hordes of weak-minded orcs so they serve you (which would be rather useful, come to think of it), but you're not going to knock down fortresses with the thing.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-26 11:52pm

Darth Wong wrote:Yes, the book is obviously canon while the movie is only a representation thereof. But the point is that the ring does not shoot fire at your enemies, rip the ground out from under them, or erect theatre shields. It might make you stronger, or allow you to turn hordes of weak-minded orcs so they serve you (which would be rather useful, come to think of it), but you're not going to knock down fortresses with the thing.

Exactly. The One Ring is more subtle, as is all magic in LotR, than a blatant weapon. It's designed to corrupt and enslave anyone and everyone, not just orcs and other corrupted creatures. They merely fall under it's sway the most easily.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-12-27 12:01am

One VERY potent power than no one has mentioned is that anything built or created by the one ring CANNOT BE DESTROYED. Thats pretty damned powerful.

The Nazgul were corrupoted by the One ring and became neither living nor dead, they coul not be destroyed as long as the one ring and existed they existed (save for the Wirch King of Angmar because of that special curse placed on him)

The tower of Bardur was leveled by the Last Alliance of Men and Elves but it could not be utterly destroyed, it was raised again by Sauron using his power.

Of course, there is the one major drawback. Once the One Ring is destroyed, anything built with it fades away as well, hence the utter destruction of Mordor after the destruction of the Ring.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-27 12:05am

Stravo wrote: The Nazgul were corrupoted by the One ring and became neither living nor dead, they coul not be destroyed as long as the one ring and existed they existed (save for the Wirch King of Angmar because of that special curse placed on him)

Though he was given that special "doom", the effect of the Arnorian knife would have done in any of the Nazgul. It was designed, somehow, to kill them. I'd imagine they were extremely hard to make and very rare given the craft need to produce one.