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Darth Servo
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Post by Darth Servo »

The Dark wrote:Obviously, the navigational deflector wasn't enough to deflect that laser :P .
[desperate trekkie]

b-b-but the shields were down when the laser fired.

[/desperate trekkie]

I seriously have seen a trektard on StarTrek.com insisting that that weapon couldn't have been a laser and the dialogue was wrong because of the lines from Outrageous Okona. He actually was so stupid he couldn't see the self contradiction. He cried like crazy "dialogue is canon", that we were not allowed alternate interpretations of it and "the words mean 'all lasers'". "Its canon" and canon is the absolute truth, yadda, yadda, yadda and then turns around and says the canon dialogue in Q-who was wrong. :roll:
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Vympel
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Post by Vympel »

Just thought I'd add some expansions on the old "no particle shields" falsehood:

- "Anakin flew into the Trade Federation hangar bay and no shield stopped him!"

1. There's a reason why they thought to show four Vulture Droids flying out of the hangar while Anakin's fighter flew in.

2. The Naboo fighters fired multiple proton torpedoes at the Droid Control Ship, none of which caused any damage whatsoever. Proton torpedoes are stopped by particle shields- not ray shields (ANH).

N1 fighters firing torpedo salvo (some are already impacting the coreship in this sequence, though the most obvious one is the one that has just been launched by the right-most fighter):

Image

Impact of a distant torpedo against the "core" of the Droid Control Ship, torpedo above still flying:

Image

Centre fighter fires a torpedo:

Image

Tiny, distant torpedo about to hit the core (it's easy to miss, until you see the impact picture and are able to track back from there- more obvious in the film because it's a moving blue dot)

Image

Impact of the hard-to-see torpedo:

Image

Really obvious torpedo about to be fired at dish- above, hard-to-see torpedo explosion still going:

Image

Flying at dish:

Image

Impact frame against dish. After the subsequent screen-spanning explosion, the dish is seen intact later on. This should be obvious anyway- if the proton torpedoes had been capable of doing any damage Ric Olie would not have said "the deflector shield is too strong" nor would the TF Captain have exclaimed "nothing could get through our shield" in disbelief when they started losing power from the inside.

Image

- "A Vulture Droid crashed into the Droid Control Ship tower while chasing Anakin in TPM and caused damage to it, therefore the particle shields couldn't stop it!"

This is just a bullshit Darkstar (or one of his acolytes) argument, and is the result of either being blind, dishonest, or both.

The tower:

Link

Now, some fools have claimed that this spot:

Marked

Is the place where the impact took place- i.e. the dark spot is damage. Of course, for those with working eyes, this is merely the shadow cast by the dish and tower- you can see the very same shadow in the same place in the shots of the dish being hit by the proton torpedo (this is also a shot that establishes the dish was intact later, as if that wasn't obvious).

Where did the impact actually take place?

Moment of impact, more or less

More useful shot, frames later- note the structure above

Note the structure protruding from the very top of either side of the tower in the second picture.

To mark it, the impact point is actually here:

No damage.

This may not be a common argument, but it is an annoying one.
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Mange
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Post by Mange »

Great screenshots Vympel!
Vympel wrote:- "Anakin flew into the Trade Federation hangar bay and no shield stopped him!"
That's the most retarded argument ever. :roll: Perhaps you could provide a screenshot with the four Vulture Droids encircled?
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Post by Vympel »

Ask and ye shall receive:

Image

Paint reduces the image quality somewhat. I really need to get a better program. But then, the TPM DVD's image quality has always been wanting by comparison to the others. They really need to release a superior edition- the one with CGI Yoda.
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Post by Vympel »

Oh, here's another one related to particle shields. This is an actual argument I've heard more than once now:

"Anakin and Obi-Wan flew right through the Invisible Hand's raised shields to land in the hangar bay!"

"Are you fucking retarded?"

"... No! It's right in the movie, Obi-Wan says the shields were still up!"

" He's talking about the hangar shield, you imbecile. You know, the reason he shot the generator?"

"Ah, but he said "the shields are still up", therefore, he's talking about all the shields, so they flew through the shields of the ship first!"

"Yeah, you are retarded. First, if the shields in that area were up, going purely from your idiotic interpretation of dialog, how could Anakin possibly blast the hangar shield generator? Are you going to tell me that where the Droid Control Ship could withstand proton torpedo salvos, the supposedly raised shields of the Separatist flagship can't protect the hangar generator from a smattering of laser fire?"

(this is where it gets absurd- this last part was argued only once)

"No! They flew through the raised shields, then fired on the unprotected hangar shield generator, then landed!"

"So you're saying the shields of the Invisible Hand extend out to such an extent from the hull, in defiance of all other ship shields we've seen, that Anakin and Obi-Wan passed through it, what, a few hundred metres or so away from the actual hull, then blasted the unprotected generator at his leisure?"

*silence*

True Story. I shit you not.
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Post by evangelion1 »

What a fucking moron i have seen some stupid people in my time but that takes the fucking cake
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Post by Publius »

Probably a case of confused context more than anything else. Remember, fans of Star Trek often assume that all science fiction operates along the same lines, so the errant gentleman probably forgot that Star Wars shields do not have the enormous hundred-meter shield spheres. If they were strafing, say, a Dominion battleship, they may well have been within the radius of the shields at that point (that does not, of course, explain how they would have passed through the shields, but alas, too many people think consistency the hobgoblin of little minds).
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Post by LeftWingExtremist »

I hate the extremely common "if the rebels can beat the empire, surely {insert sci-fi universe} can beat them as well", the worst thing is it's used in nearly any VS with against any sci-fi (not only star trek). Usually they use it when they know they can't win the debate in terms of firepower so they suggest that {insert sci-fi civilisation} can turn to gurrilla style tactics. This is despite the fact the the rebels AT LEAST have a speed advantage over the empire and can still go toe to toe against them 1 on 1 in some occasions.
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