Soran Trilithium Weapon

[Ritterin Sophia]

Okay, I'm in a Star Wars Vs Star Trek Argument, and I'm woefully ignorant of some things in Star Trek... so I want to know about the validity of this post someone made.

How about Soran's tri-lithium weapon?
The technology is obviously out there and they don't need anything as big as a Death Star to use it.
It fits in a torpedo.
They could go from star system to star system destroying all the worlds in the Star Wars universe.

[Darth Wong]

Okay, I'm in a Star Wars Vs Star Trek Argument, and I'm woefully ignorant of some things in Star Trek... so I want to know about the validity of this post someone made.

How about Soran's tri-lithium weapon?
The technology is obviously out there and they don't need anything as big as a Death Star to use it.
It fits in a torpedo.
They could go from star system to star system destroying all the worlds in the Star Wars universe.

They need trilithium, which is dangerous and difficult to acquire, and certainly doesn't come in unlimited quantity. They also need a propulsion system capable of covering the kind of distances which are typical in the Star Wars universe. The technology is NOT just "out there" since the Duras sisters bet their future on getting Soren's plans for it. And finally, there is no guarantee of destroying any planets; the weapon creates a huge solar flare, rather than actually destroying the star as people think it does, and the effects of the planet being destroyed were obviously Picard's imagination from the Nexus since it wouldn't actually look like that.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Ah, Thank you Lord Wong, I shall carry out Imperial Protocol and inform him of this at once!

[Patrick Degan]

Even if the trilithium sunkiller worked exactly as we see it in Generations, it's still a crap weapon for a number of reasons:

• The aforementioned difficulty in obtaining sufficient trilithium.

• Vulnerability to interception.

• Federation starships attempting to go "from system to system" with these things would be easily run down and picked off by Imperial sector patrols.

• Remote robot carriers running on Fed-standard warp drive would have to be in flight for weeks/months before reaching any Imperial star system, which again results in vulnerability to interception at long ranges.

[Singular Intellect]

And finally, there is no guarantee of destroying any planets; the weapon creates a huge solar flare, rather than actually destroying the star as people think it does, and the effects of the planet being destroyed were obviously Picard's imagination from the Nexus since it wouldn't actually look like that.

Whoa whoa Mike...do you have evidence the planet's destruction was Picard's imagination, other than "it wouldn't actually look like that"?

After all, a tiny Klingon Bird of Prey in Star Trek IV looks like it's tens of thousands of kilometers in size next to Earth's sun...do we conclude therefore it must be someone's imagination as well?

[Batman]

And finally, there is no guarantee of destroying any planets; the weapon creates a huge solar flare, rather than actually destroying the star as people think it does, and the effects of the planet being destroyed were obviously Picard's imagination from the Nexus since it wouldn't actually look like that.

Whoa whoa Mike...do you have evidence the planet's destruction was Picard's imagination, other than "it wouldn't actually look like that"?
After all, a tiny Klingon Bird of Prey in Star Trek IV looks like it's tens of thousands of kilometers in size next to Earth's sun...do we conclude therefore it must be someone's imagination as well?

So you're saying the BoP is actually some 10,000km large?[/b]

[brianeyci]

Whoa whoa Mike...do you have evidence the planet's destruction was Picard's imagination, other than "it wouldn't actually look like that"?

After all, a tiny Klingon Bird of Prey in Star Trek IV looks like it's tens of thousands of kilometers in size next to Earth's sun...do we conclude therefore it must be someone's imagination as well?

Someone needs to read Sean Robertson's scaling tutorial again. Just because the BOP overlaps the sun doesn't mean it's tens of thousands of kilometers in size, it just means the upper limit is tens of thousands of kilometers (which the real value is below).

Special effects fuckups are one thing, as I assume you are trying to do with your BOP example, and plot points are another. It's been a long time since I've seen Generations, but if Picard was in the nexus while the planet exploded, well the nexus shows someone what he wants to see so it's a valid argument.

A better example of a fuckup would be a D'Deredix's nose passing through the Enterprise-D (I believe Tin Man) or phasers coming out from where there's no phaser strips and so on.

[Ritterin Sophia]

It appears the idiots I'm arguing with have shown their real colors, not only are they saying numbers don't matter, but it appears they subscribe the Scooter's House of Stupidity as well, arguing that EU is 'A Parelel Universe' (Of course I linked to where Leland Chee shows that Georges description the EU was badly wordedbecause of Starlog and now I'm being called a rabid warsie because he (correctly claimed) that I was using evidence pointed out by Wong's site.

[Darth Wong]

And finally, there is no guarantee of destroying any planets; the weapon creates a huge solar flare, rather than actually destroying the star as people think it does, and the effects of the planet being destroyed were obviously Picard's imagination from the Nexus since it wouldn't actually look like that.

Whoa whoa Mike...do you have evidence the planet's destruction was Picard's imagination, other than "it wouldn't actually look like that"?

What the fuck are you talking about? I know that the effect of a nova blast wave would not look like that because the physics don't work out. That is the evidence that Picard was imagining it from inside the Nexus.

After all, a tiny Klingon Bird of Prey in Star Trek IV looks like it's tens of thousands of kilometers in size next to Earth's sun...do we conclude therefore it must be someone's imagination as well?

What do you conclude from that scene?

[Darth Wong]

It appears the idiots I'm arguing with have shown their real colors, not only are they saying numbers don't matter, but it appears they subscribe the Scooter's House of Stupidity as well, arguing that EU is 'A Parelel Universe' (Of course I linked to where Leland Chee shows that Georges description the EU was badly wordedbecause of Starlog and now I'm being called a rabid warsie because he (correctly claimed) that I was using evidence pointed out by Wong's site.

Nice ad-hominem. Did you try pointing out to them that it doesn't matter where the fuck you got the argument, if they can't refute it?

[Vympel]

When these little fucks are dishonest enough to attack the messenger (oh my God, that Leland Chee quote is on Mike Wong's webpage!) rather than refute the message, it's a good idea to just cease debating such fools. They came up with a preconcieved conclusion and they're gonna stick with it. Anyone dumb enough to think that Darkstar has quotes therefore the employees of Lucasfilm are wrong isn't worth debating.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Yes actually I have... he's now resorted to screaming Ad Hominem when I confronted him about that actually...

[Darth Wong]

Yes actually I have... he's now resorted to screaming Ad Hominem when I confronted him about that actually...

That reminds me of Mr. Morris, the ICR creationist guy. When "evolutionists" started blasting him for publishing completely erroneous facts about the bombardier beetle, he accused them of "ad-hominem" for focusing on his errors. I shit you not.

There's a point when you realize that you're debating people who are so stupid and/or dishonest that you might as well be speaking different languages. That's why I've taken to referring to Darkstar as "the uneducated Trek troll", because that is the single defining characteristic of Darkstar and all of his followers: a lack of education. And they can scream "ad-hominem" all they want, but when their own arguments rest almost entirely on attacking anything that they perceive as "warsie", they haven't got a leg to stand on. At least a lack of education really is a legitimate reason to question someone's competence, as opposed to being "warsie".

[Surlethe]

It appears the idiots I'm arguing with have shown their real colors, not only are they saying numbers don't matter, but it appears they subscribe the Scooter's House of Stupidity as well, arguing that EU is 'A Parelel Universe' (Of course I linked to where Leland Chee shows that Georges description the EU was badly wordedbecause of Starlog and now I'm being called a rabid warsie because he (correctly claimed) that I was using evidence pointed out by Wong's site.

The "parallel universe" (whatever that means) argument always puzzles me, because the movies are in the EU's past and that indicates that the SW universe is, in fact, capable of everything the EU demonstrates. It may be a parallel universe, but that doesn't make it any less Star Wars than the movies. What are they trying to prove? That some major technological advancement happened in the EU that didn't occur in the "movie universe"?

[Isolder74]

It appears the idiots I'm arguing with have shown their real colors, not only are they saying numbers don't matter, but it appears they subscribe the Scooter's House of Stupidity as well, arguing that EU is 'A Parelel Universe' (Of course I linked to where Leland Chee shows that Georges description the EU was badly wordedbecause of Starlog and now I'm being called a rabid warsie because he (correctly claimed) that I was using evidence pointed out by Wong's site.

The "parallel universe" (whatever that means) argument always puzzles me, because the movies are in the EU's past and that indicates that the SW universe is, in fact, capable of everything the EU demonstrates. It may be a parallel universe, but that doesn't make it any less Star Wars than the movies. What are they trying to prove? That some major technological advancement happened in the EU that didn't occur in the "movie universe"?

Its just an excuse to ignore any Official explination they don't agree with. Official Literature points out the exsistence of Planetary shield, they want to ignore that they exsist. So they claim the movies do not show any planetary shield and can ignore the arguments about how powerful the Death Star is and the shield that heald it off for about a second because it would make attacking a fortified Star Wars planet impossible even with the entire starfleet of the Federation. Rince and repeat.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Something one of the Trekkies brought up: If we were to believe that Movies and EU are Parallel Universe, that means we get two of everything, since they are BOTH Star Wars.

More seriously though;

They took this:

By the way Trekkies, it doesn’t matter where my argument comes from as long as you can’t refute it!

Which they took to mean they can do this.

Oh, really? Cool. 'cause I've got this whole long argument about how 'X' wins because everyone in it can turn everyone in every other piece of entertainment into jello pudding with their minds, backwards in time.

My source: I made it up. Now refute that.

And This:

A Federation ship transports one Tribble down to Coruscant.

Within a week, the Imperial government falls.

An army of Sith clones are created to deal with the Tribble threat but unknown to them when exposed to Sith lightning, the Tribbles evolve into Galactus-like beings (according to my own sources which makes it canon) and a trillion-fold Tribble army lays waste to the entire Star Wars universe in an attempt to satisfy their insatiable hunger of worlds.

They then mate with a race of creatures called Ewoks and settle down contented to live their lives happily ever after.
But the Galactus-Tribble-Ewok offspring rebel against their parents and open a rift to the multiverse.

G0D help us...
G0D help us all!!! :shocked:

I should’ve known not to present them with a quote that can be easily misinterpreted.

[Darth Wong]

Obviously, they are too fucking stupid to understand the difference between a claim and an argument. Are they arguing that Leland Chee never actually said what he said, just because you heard about it here?

[Surlethe]

I should’ve known not to present them with a quote that can be easily misinterpreted.

No, they should know better than to deliberately twist your words and lie about them right back to your face.

[Darth Servo]

I'm reminded once again about why I never signed up at SB.com.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Are they arguing that Leland Chee never actually said what he said, just because you heard about it here?

Not even their rebuttal was: George Lucas>Leland Chee.

This isn't SB.com, this is a thread at www.boards.cityofheroes.com I'm just wasting some time arguing with them, the things over 56 pages long.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Can a mod dress that link, there shouldn;t be a comma there.

[Darth Wong]

their rebuttal was: George Lucas>Leland Chee.

No, their rebuttal was "Darkstar's preferred interpretation of a George Lucas quote > Leland Chee".

If somebody told me that he knew my boss' company policies better than me because he read a quote by him somewhere, I'd laugh in his face. These dipshits have obviously never held a real job in their lives.

[Vympel]

I'm just wasting some time arguing with them

Exactly. You're wasting your time. All you need to do is note that a Lucasfilm employee has explicitly laid out what the canon policy actually is, and anyone who thinks he knows the policy of that company better than a guy who works there (when continuity maintenance is his job because he read a quote one time is a fucking idiot.

Reading over that thread (it's easy to find), the moment anyone starts decrying the generally (in the vs community) accepted analysis modes for those debates, and that attitude seems to prevail- don't bother. Don't even bother posting. They'll just throw out whatever subjective, stupid bullshit sounds good at the time- take for example that idiotic comment of:

"The Enteprise-D couldn't beat an ISD because the Enterprise-D got beaten by Ferengi. But the ISD couldn't destroy the Enterprise-D because in all the episodes the Enterprise-D gets away."

That should be a big flashing RED ALERT for stupid fucking twats who you shouldn't waste time on.

In short, general interest bland-ass fanboy forums like that moron-hole are not the place to conduct a versus debate. Ever. You want a measure of quality, go to somewhere where the general rules of debate are understood and accepted.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Oh, but don't you enjoy watching fanboys squirm and act like idiots when you give them something they can't refute?

[The Kernel]

Oh, but don't you enjoy watching fanboys squirm and act like idiots when you give them something they can't refute?

Do you really think any of them are going to concede defeat? Concession that you have the better argument requires intellectual honesty, which none of these little pricks have.

I'm reminded of Nick Nailor's character in Thank you for Smoking when he had the chocolate/vanilla argument with his son. He correctly pointed out that the point of a debate is not to convince the person you are debating, but to convince the audience that you have the stronger argument.

Now think about the audience in question at this kiddie board you are debating on. Do you really think any of them have a shred of reason between them? You think any well reasoned logical arguments are likely to get you anywhere with people who think that reading Popular Science makes them experts?

Don't waste your time--argue somewhere with an audience that is actually capable of recognizing the superiority of your arguments.