So many words, so little intelligence ...

[Darth Yoshi]

How was the Falcon able to do that? I mean, the shields were up, and while they're hull huggers, sohuldn't that have stopped it, or is there some key point I'm missing?

Magnetic clamp. Even if the shields were up, they hug the hull well enough that a magnetic clamp can still latch on.

[Darth Servo]

The retarded boarding thing reminds me of a claim BigHairyMountainMan made on strek-v-swars before that board went down (dammit, I should've saved the thread).

It went like this.

The Millennium Falcon was able to use it's docking claw to attach itself to the rear of the ISD tower while it's shields were up. Therefore, hordes of Federation troops (ie. goldshirts) in space suits would be able to beam to just outside that spot, pass through said shields (because of course, if the Falcon's docking claw can supposedly do it, so can a douchebag in a spacesuit- right?) and cut through the ISD hull, boarding the command tower and then taking over the ship.

No, really. I'm not making this up. I swear.

Let me guess, because a big asteroid can damage an ISD bridge tower, a puny phaser that can't even punch through a light weight packing crate should have no trouble cutting through an ISD's hull, right?

[Vympel]

Something like that. It was all kinds of stupid.

I mean, never mind the typical "hapless lone Star Destroyer floating around in deep space waiting for our Strapping Federation Military Genius Heroes to try stuff out on it" paradigm employed; there's

- the assumption that the Star Destroyer will not be accelerating well out of the ability of thousands of men in EVA suits to actually find purchase on the hull (assuming they can harmlessly pass through the shield).

- There's the assumption that the sensor blind spot will accomodate the thousands of men required to pull this off.

- There's the assumption that the Star Destroyer won't be alerted when the scores of Federation starships required to pull off such a mass transport appear on their scopes.

- There's the assumption that they can cut through the hull in any apprecialbe amount of time;

Aw, fuck it, I could go on forever.

Just picture a TIE Fighter or two strafing a clump of hapless idiots floating in space, really.

[Aratech]

Hmmm, well, I suppose that if enough goldshirts or whatever color they were, were able to crank up their phasers to level 16, and start shooting at the TIE, and it held still long enough, they could be considered a threat to it.

Aside from that, though, their sole hope would lie in keeping the Imps distracted long enough to do anything by keeping them paralyzed and helpless with laughter.

[Darth Servo]

How is a goldshirt floating in space even supposed to aim his gun anyway? Its not like we've seen highly maneuverable space suits in Trek. Picard and company in FC were almost as slow and clumsy as the borg drones and they had magnetic grappling to the E-E's hull.

[brianeyci]

Did you ask him to prove the ISD had its shields up at the time?

That should have killed it right there unless my memory is faulty. It's not like Trek ships have their shields up all the time and usually using their own standards on them works.

[Darth Servo]

Did you ask him to prove the ISD had its shields up at the time?

That should have killed it right there unless my memory is faulty. It's not like Trek ships have their shields up all the time and usually using their own standards on them works.

Um, Captain Needa had ordered "shields up" when the Falcon was on approach.

[Vympel]

Did you ask him to prove the ISD had its shields up at the time?

That should have killed it right there unless my memory is faulty. It's not like Trek ships have their shields up all the time and usually using their own standards on them works.

Needa orders the shields raised when the Falcon approaches. In any even, why would I want to "kill" such a hilariously stupid tactic so easily?

[Aratech]

How is a goldshirt floating in space even supposed to aim his gun anyway? Its not like we've seen highly maneuverable space suits in Trek. Picard and company in FC were almost as slow and clumsy as the borg drones and they had magnetic grappling to the E-E's hull.

I think they'd have to do something along the lines of what your average Goblins do when it comes time for bows and arrows: fill the air with enough phaser fire and you're bound to hit something eventually...

...of course, given the 'stellar' accuracy of most Feddies, they'd just as likely hit each other as a fighter capable of doing 4000 Gs.

[Lord Poe]

Needa orders the shields raised when the Falcon approaches. In any even, why would I want to "kill" such a hilariously stupid tactic so easily?

Needa does order shields up, but it could simply have been the bridge shields, since he was concerned about the destruction the Falcon could do if it hit the windows. From the novelization:

A small freighter could not do much damage if it collided against a Star Destroyer's hull; but if it smashed through the bridge windows, the control deck would be littered with corpses.

And we know, thanks to ROTJ, that the bridge shields are seperate from the other shields on the ISD.

[Darth Servo]

I think they'd have to do something along the lines of what your average Goblins do when it comes time for bows and arrows: fill the air with enough phaser fire and you're bound to hit something eventually...

...of course, given the 'stellar' accuracy of most Feddies, they'd just as likely hit each other as a fighter capable of doing 4000 Gs.

Ah, standard Federation combat tactics or my tactics when playing billiards

[Darth Wong]

Gee, you can't tell this "heroes leaping bravely onto the speeding car, er- spaceship" idea came from watching too many action movies, can you?

[Lord Poe]

Gee, you can't tell this "heroes leaping bravely onto the speeding car, er- spaceship" idea came from watching too many action movies, can you?

I guess it doesn't help that Shatner also played TJ Hooker.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Hmmm, well, I suppose that if enough goldshirts or whatever color they were, were able to crank up their phasers to level 16, and start shooting at the TIE, and it held still long enough, they could be considered a threat to it.

I can't remember correctly but I thought that all ships (Excluding Vong, Sekotan, and Gungan) were all made from Durasteel, and everyone knows how effective capital ship-grade phaser are against those considering Neutronium is an ingredient in it.

[Ghost Rider]

Hmmm, well, I suppose that if enough goldshirts or whatever color they were, were able to crank up their phasers to level 16, and start shooting at the TIE, and it held still long enough, they could be considered a threat to it.

I can't remember correctly but I thought that all ships (Excluding Vong, Sekotan, and Gungan) were all made from Durasteel, and everyone knows how effective capital ship-grade phaser are against those considering Neutronium is an ingredient in it.

Actually even more to a point, literally a couple of the Wraith Squadron books tell of hand level blasters doing nothing to the windows or hull of a TIE. The only example we've seen of a hand level blaster doing any damage is in Crimson Empire, and Kir Kanos was using a gun that was his and his alone(which is more likely to be special versus standard SW firearm).

But it is unsure whether Durasteel in the fighters has any Neutronium, but disregarding that we've seen the firepower of a most Wars firearms unable to penetrate a Fighter grade hull. We have a good idea on some firearms and the MJ-GJ they can achieve, plus the fact that the ships can usually take a glancing blow from a starfighter cannon...the amount of phaser concentration would not only be immense, the fighter would have the stand there....dumbfound for an enormous span of time.

[Darth Servo]

Actually even more to a point, literally a couple of the Wraith Squadron books tell of hand level blasters doing nothing to the windows or hull of a TIE. The only example we've seen of a hand level blaster doing any damage is in Crimson Empire, and Kir Kanos was using a gun that was his and his alone(which is more likely to be special versus standard SW firearm).

[desperate trekkie]
but those TIEs are completely destroyed by hitting asteroids so obviously a phaser would cut through them like butter.
[/DT]

the fighter would have the stand there....dumbfound for an enormous span of time.

Don't all trektard arguments incorporate that as one of their primary assumptions?

[Aratech]

SW has handhelds that get into the GJ range? I thought that disruptors only got into the triple digit MJ. Which ones are that powerful?

[NRS Guardian]

E-Webs definitely, and maybe clonetrooper rifles and T-21s.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Star Wars RPG also has a shoulder launched 'Blaster Cannon', let's remember WotC gave us much more tolerable numbers than WEG, which under the new errata shred vehicles pretty easily.

[NecronLord]

The clonetrooper rifle's 8MJ/shot according to the Visual Dictionary, IIRC. Certainly a long way from GJ/shot levels. On the other hand, the likes of E-Webs probably are either GJ/shot, or more likely, IMO, high rate of fire, GW firepower affairs.

[Vympel]

The clonetrooper rifle's 8MJ/shot according to the Visual Dictionary, IIRC. Certainly a long way from GJ/shot levels. On the other hand, the likes of E-Webs probably are either GJ/shot, or more likely, IMO, high rate of fire, GW firepower affairs.

It's from the ICS- the 8MJ is the figure Mike came up with from the blasting a "0.5m crater in any ferrocrete wall" quote.

As for the E-Web, remember it's cited in the TESB novelization as being a threat to the Millennium Falcon (unshielded?).

[NecronLord]

As for the E-Web, remember it's cited in the TESB novelization as being a threat to the Millennium Falcon (unshielded?).

Chewie with a welding iron is a threat to the Falcon.

But more seriously, I'd assume, given the lack of a visual effect (Droidekas, Naboo fighter) that it was unshielded during most of its in-atmosphere scenes. This doesn't hold up too well given the sequence at cloud city. Perhaps in this instance the shields in atmosphere are invisible (like those on the LAATs). Of course, it doesn't really need to do much to threaten the Falcon, putting a centimeter hole in the cockpit canopy would presumably be enough to ground it. After which, they've got a severe case of Sith Lords.

I can't see it being a threat to the Falcon with its shields up, though, if only because I doubt that the Falcon's shields are powered by anything as comparatively dinky as the battery/generator for the E-Web.

I'd presume 8Mj to be derived from blasting concrete, then? It could easily be ten times that or more, in that case.

[Vympel]

I'd presume 8Mj to be derived from blasting concrete, then? It could easily be ten times that or more, in that case.

IIRC, Mike went from the assumption that ferrocrete would be halfway between concrete and steel.

But more seriously, I'd assume, given the lack of a visual effect (Droidekas, Naboo fighter) that it was unshielded during most of its in-atmosphere scenes. This doesn't hold up too well given the sequence at cloud city.

Remember that N1 fighter shields are visible only briefly when they activate, they don't remain that way (the "shell" enveloping Anakin's fighter when he turns on the shields quickly becomes invisible). Droideka shields seem to be a different type of shielding technology that is constantly visible.

In any event, I don't think the shields were up in the Hoth hangar anyway.

[Jim Raynor]

Gee, you can't tell this "heroes leaping bravely onto the speeding car, er- spaceship" idea came from watching too many action movies, can you?

I really wonder why so many Trektards have this macho Superman perception of the combat abilities of Federation troops. That's hardly the impression I got from watching TNG. The show just isn't about action, and is even quite anti-military. The main characters are all brainy cultured types who prefer to come up bullshit technobabble solutions rather than resort to shooting. It's like what Darth Servo pointed out in the Last Bastion thread. It's ironic how ST fanboys wanted nothing but starship battles in their fanfilms, when 99% of ST was "boring talking scenes."

Anyone else think that the losers are compensating by living through their beloved Federation super soldiers?

[Elfdart]

A bunch of guys in space suits a threat to an ISD?

Leave aside the main guns and point defense guns, as well as TIE Fighters. A squad of stormtroopers with standard-issue blasters could kill them all before they got anywhere close to the ship.

Big Hairy Mountain Pussy gets dumber and dumber...