Spacemarines from WH40K

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2002-07-31 02:22pm

And whats this pish anout the Organs being phased out. There was a list of them in 2nd Ed. Codex Imperialis (and in an issue of WD) and for 3rd ed. they oublished an even more detailed account in Index Astrates. The Organs have been there all along.

RadiO · Post by **RadiO** » 2002-07-31 06:28pm

Yeah. Pleasingly, the current Index Astartes articles and other stuff in White Dwarf have brought the Marines back to being a right nasty crew. The Dark Angels as intolerant, self-righteous, stern bastards; the Ultramarines coming from a Sparta-like world where only the toughest and smartest avoid death in childhood; the Marines Malevolent remorselessly using a refugee camp as a bastion at the cost of thousands of innocent lives; one-time GW superhero Rogal Dorn, primarch of the Imperial Fists, revealed to be a mouthy, vain, overly cocky twat; and the Fleshtearers finally being censured by the Imperium as a force of psychotic, flesheating mass-murderers who've crossed a line once too often. All good stuff.
And then there's the Traitor Legions, the lines between which and the loyal Marine chapters are becoming increasingly blurred... I love it.

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-07-31 08:32pm

I actually posted a while back the possiblity of combined systems commonwealth/Galactic empire alliance vs just the imperium of man.
however I just learned recently that the imperium has rather "shitty" FTL traval, which gives the other two a massive strategtic empire, regardless of the massive tactical disadvantages faced by the other two states in fighting the imperium forces.

it is intersating though that the ISD can defeat it's Imperium of man counterpart, the dauntless light cruiser.

now that I think about it, how would both the Galactic empire and Systems commonwealth take to the imperium of man as neighbor, world war III in outer space.

wow, knew the space marines were tougher then even imperial guard, but never knew till now that they are that powerful[/quote]

Luke Hares · Post by **Luke Hares** » 2002-08-01 11:00am

2000AD wrote:And whats this pish anout the Organs being phased out. There was a list of them in 2nd Ed. Codex Imperialis (and in an issue of WD) and for 3rd ed. they oublished an even more detailed account in Index Astrates. The Organs have been there all along.

Not saying the organs have gone, indeed, I wouldn't know if they had - haven't owned any rules except the 1st edition.

Do know that marines have gone down the pan - WH40K used be a hell of lot less theatrical and much grittier, tougher and nastier.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-08-01 11:23am

Hate to intrude in the circle of love here about 40K but I've always heard of this on the fringes of my other RPG interests and never really gave it much thought or attention. Reading these posts piqued my interest. Is there a webpage or something that sort of lays out this universe with some pictures and the like? I just don't want to pay for a whole bunch of manuals for a game that I will most likely not have time to play anyway but would like to read up on some more of this.

RadiO · Post by **RadiO** » 2002-08-01 11:59am

Luke Hares wrote:
2000AD wrote:And whats this pish anout the Organs being phased out. There was a list of them in 2nd Ed. Codex Imperialis (and in an issue of WD) and for 3rd ed. they oublished an even more detailed account in Index Astrates. The Organs have been there all along.
Not saying the organs have gone, indeed, I wouldn't know if they had - haven't owned any rules except the 1st edition.

Do know that marines have gone down the pan - WH40K used be a hell of lot less theatrical and much grittier, tougher and nastier.

I am curious about this... I've been into 40k since about 1988, and I can't honestly say I've noticed any difference in the way the Marines have been portrayed then and now. They were psychotic killing machines with dubious religious leanings and an inhuman prospenity for murder in the original Rogue Trader book, and that's pretty much the story now.
I admit there was a period, starting with 2nd edition 40k, where the Marines were portrayed in a more positive light than before. But the current edition seems to have toned this down.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2002-08-01 05:48pm

Stravo wrote:Is there a webpage or something that sort of lays out this universe with some pictures and the like.

http://www.games-workshop.com/40kuniver ... /about.htm

Thats the offcial GW website for 40K. If I find something more substantial i'll post it.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2002-08-01 06:24pm

2000AD wrote:Are you suggesting they get their arses kicked by the Eldar? Last tine I checked they couldn't dodge laser bolts. Holo fields could make them miss and some Farseers and Warlocks can predict where they will hit and dodge them, but the vast majority of Eldar can't dodge them.

If not the Eldar then who are you talking about?

Actually I was refering to the First Edition Harliquins, with GrandHarliquien and Death Jesters. The few people who with Holofields, and insane dodging skills CAN dodge lasers. Also I have seen 1 squad (Or troop) of Harlies go through several[\u] squads of SM.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2002-08-01 06:29pm

Also of note the Brain eating organ is messed up in at least two chapters.

The Foe Render's who eat everything not just the brians.

The Blood Angels who can't eat brains but who do have to drink blood and do recover strength from their enemies.

I once reated a Jaguar Knight chapter, that eat the Hearts....

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-08-01 06:41pm

2000AD wrote:
Stravo wrote:Is there a webpage or something that sort of lays out this universe with some pictures and the like.
http://www.games-workshop.com/40kuniver ... /about.htm

Thats the offcial GW website for 40K. If I find something more substantial i'll post it.

Many thanks!

Pendragon · Post by **Pendragon** » 2002-08-01 08:35pm

THe Yosemite Bear wrote:The Blood Angels who can't eat brains but who do have to drink blood and do recover strength from their enemies.

They do not have to drink blood, but hey do thirst for it. And when they do succumb to the thirst they are gripped by the black rage, go berserk and think that theyre Sanguinus on the eve of his final battle against Horus.

Wicked.

Of course these are sent off into battle as the death company. Unpleasant guys.

As for marine strength, in GW's largescale mini game/rpg Inquisitor a bog standard hum has a n average strength of about 50-80 IIRC, while a space marine has around 250...

If theres anything you want to know, go check the excellent forums at www.portent.net and DO stay away from GW's official ones.

Luke Hares · Post by **Luke Hares** » 2002-08-02 05:06am

I am curious about this... I've been into 40k since about 1988, and I can't honestly say I've noticed any difference in the way the Marines have been portrayed then and now. They were psychotic killing machines with dubious religious leanings and an inhuman prospenity for murder in the original Rogue Trader book, and that's pretty much the story now.
I admit there was a period, starting with 2nd edition 40k, where the Marines were portrayed in a more positive light than before. But the current edition seems to have toned this down.[/quote]

It may have - perhaps I should revisit it again. The minatures and art (my only real point of reference) seem to have got 'cleaner' somehow though, and there is a greater level of slightly childish 'legendising' - not a word and somehow rather hard to explain.

In the original Rogue Trader (1st edition rules) marines were the enhanced, psychotic killing machines we know and love, wielding ancient technology in a decaying and battered universe. The time of legends was over - the figures of the Emperor, Horus, the War against Chaos were in the past, as were the other legendary figures (like the founders of the original space marine chapters). What was left was a crippled Emperor, subsisting of the souls of the emerging psychic humans. It was all very dark ages.

The whole kind of zeigeist thing was terribly dark, depressing, and superstious and thus rather refreshing. The whole thing had a very high level of entropy - everything was decayed, very little new stuff was built. The marines were the only thing standing between humanity and complete collapse..

It seems to have become much more Buck Rogers now, which is somehow less satisfying.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2002-08-02 05:13am

When I say that I have the first edition rules, I do mean, the ones with the garbage binding that have to be taken to a book shop for proper treatment a MONTH after you bought the cursed thing.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-08-02 08:42am

Now WH40K seems to be cool but anyone know where I can find pics of the warships? Space-battle-ships to be precise.

Pendragon · Post by **Pendragon** » 2002-08-02 09:05am

www.forgeworld.com
www.games-workshop.com

Check the online stores for minis. Look for "Battlefleet Gothic" or just BFG for short.

And the have some movie clips of them in action at www.exile-films.com

Luke Hares · Post by **Luke Hares** » 2002-08-02 09:58am

THe Yosemite Bear wrote:When I say that I have the first edition rules, I do mean, the ones with the garbage binding that have to be taken to a book shop for proper treatment a MONTH after you bought the cursed thing.

Sounds about right, good cover though.

RadiO · Post by **RadiO** » 2002-08-02 10:30am

Luke Hares wrote:I am curious about this... I've been into 40k since about 1988, and I can't honestly say I've noticed any difference in the way the Marines have been portrayed then and now. They were psychotic killing machines with dubious religious leanings and an inhuman prospenity for murder in the original Rogue Trader book, and that's pretty much the story now.
I admit there was a period, starting with 2nd edition 40k, where the Marines were portrayed in a more positive light than before. But the current edition seems to have toned this down.

It may have - perhaps I should revisit it again. The minatures and art (my only real point of reference) seem to have got 'cleaner' somehow though, and there is a greater level of slightly childish 'legendising' - not a word and somehow rather hard to explain.

In the original Rogue Trader (1st edition rules) marines were the enhanced, psychotic killing machines we know and love, wielding ancient technology in a decaying and battered universe. The time of legends was over - the figures of the Emperor, Horus, the War against Chaos were in the past, as were the other legendary figures (like the founders of the original space marine chapters). What was left was a crippled Emperor, subsisting of the souls of the emerging psychic humans. It was all very dark ages.

The whole kind of zeigeist thing was terribly dark, depressing, and superstious and thus rather refreshing. The whole thing had a very high level of entropy - everything was decayed, very little new stuff was built. The marines were the only thing standing between humanity and complete collapse..

It seems to have become much more Buck Rogers now, which is somehow less satisfying.[/quote]

Sorry to have sounded doubtful. I agree with you; there was a time where humanity in the 40k universe seemed inhuman and alien, by our standards. That's gone, largely; granted, the Marines are still bastards and there are new and frightening enemies like the Necrons, but increasingly the 40k universe looks like one which would be just about bearable as a place to live. Which seems a bit... wrong.
Where there is overt sinsterness in today's 40k, it's of the X-Files, "everything you thought you knew is wrong" variety; like Inquisitor, with its warring factions of the Emperor's most trusted servants.
I get the impression that there are still two trains of thought at GW, though; a new school of brighter, flashier design and fiction in 40k, and an older school advocating primitive decay and depression. The contrast between the pictures of an Imperial cruiser's torpedo room in the BFG literature is interesting. The comic strip in the Getting Started booklet shows engineers in cool spacesuits, using an powered overhead gantry to lift a massive torpedo into its tube; an illustration in the manual shows a team of 150 or more habited servants, pulling a torpedo into readiness with ropes, musclepower and the threat of the lash. Bit of a contrast, there.

Luke Hares · Post by **Luke Hares** » 2002-08-02 11:11am

Yep - thats the what I meant. Somehow there was an element of hopelessness in the 1st edition, combined with a will to keep on struggling even though you know its hopeless. It gave the universe a colour and distinctiveness that seems lacking.

Glad its not just me who noticed it

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2002-08-02 03:44pm

THe Yosemite Bear wrote:
Actually I was refering to the First Edition Harliquins, with GrandHarliquien and Death Jesters. The few people who with Holofields, and insane dodging skills CAN dodge lasers. Also I have seen 1 squad (Or troop) of Harlies go through several[\u] squads of SM.

Forgot about the Harliquins. I still think they are a bunch of pansy's like the rest of the Eldar though. But they do have one of the coolest weapons ever, The Harliquins Kiss.

Luke Hares · Post by **Luke Hares** » 2002-08-05 06:33am

1st edition Harlequins were nasty (nasty pansies, but still nasty)- last proper old style Eldar units to be released -new style Eldar army lists were the beginning of the end as far as I'm concerned.

Nasty, but perfectly stoppable if you knew how of course, which is how it should be.

Pendragon · Post by **Pendragon** » 2002-08-05 07:51am

Not a lot of 3ed fans here it seems.
I prefer a game were the one-man armies dont rule and the games is more about tactics than dirty tricks and rulebending.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2002-08-05 03:48pm

2nd ed rules were for smaller battles and was generally longer to play.

3rd ed is aimed at larger battles and is also quicker to play, but some rules are just pure annoyance, eg. all models move the same distance

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2002-08-05 04:06pm

i personally don't have a preference, but i do dislike the afore mentioned movement rule

Jack Lain · Post by **Jack Lain** » 2002-08-05 10:02pm

This thread brings back so many memories. I still have my models. Terms, Marines, Eldar, Orks, Tyranids, etc... Ah man, I gotta make a trip out to the garage and look at all that stuff again. I spent so many hours painting, modeling and creating scenes. Hard to believe that was almost 10 years ago. I played two diff chapters, the Ultra Marines, and a chapter I made up.
Shit, I even built a special case out of an old shoe shine kit just to carry my Marines to battle. Ah recollections of a drunken game playing college life. ;)

-Jack "Shit I'm old" Lain.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2002-08-06 01:34am

I just remember the time my parents siamese interupted a battle and proceed to decimate both sides. So what Choas power does a cat jumping into the middel of the battle and knocking everything over, cutting marines, Tryanids, and Orks to piecies in the process represent?

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Spacemarines from WH40K

imperium of man vs galactic empire