Space battle comments

[Raxmei]

These are mostly just random. Feel free to contribute your own.

Romulans can now use both weapons and shields while under cloak. My sister commented, "What the Fuck?"

I expected the opening phaser spread to use wider beams. It would have been visually impressive to see those coruscating sheets of explodey death. Oh, well. At least they remembered to target that explosion and fire.

That boarding scene was completely pointless and stupid. They want Picard, so they beam a small team to deck 29. Yeah, you can fight your way up a couple dozen decks with ten men. Piece of cake. This confrontation is also notable in that it makes up the only Starfleet casualties to small arms throughout the entire film. All those firefights with the Empire's most feared shock troops and only two people get hit. And what were Riker and Worf doing there? They should be on the bridge. While the firefight was going on, I mumbled under my breath, "Computer, lights, 200%." The Remans somehow neglected to bring sunglasses. They make a big fuss about being vulnerable to light and nothing comes of it. Anyway, all this does is give Riker something to do while the battle is going on.

Data forgot to bring reaction mass with him when he boarded the Scimitar. If he missed he would have drifted for a long time.

Putting an end to a losing space battle, Picard rammed his ship into the Scimitar. I admired his tenacity, fighting to the last with whatever he had. When I heard the damage report on the Scimitar, I thought to myself "Ah ha! Now you've got them!" Picard had brilliantly managed to demolish his opponent's shields, disable his weapons, and, crucially, destroy his fighter craft. That ram took advantage of the Scimitar's exposed fighter bay while leaving intact the Enterprise's hangars. Now all he has to do is launch armed shuttles and the battle is his. And then... he went and did a completely different, suicidal course of action. Victory from the jaws of defeat from the jaws of victory.

[EmperorMing]

They should have boarded after the ram (and attached a tractor beam to keep them there). Then we could have seen a REAl boarding action...


Avast, ye scurvy dog!!!

[IRG CommandoJoe]

I was hoping somehow the Fed fleet would have caught on that the Enterprise was in trouble and that they went to help so we could see the Scimitar fight the entire fleet. That would have been much cooler.

[Captain Kruger]

Well, unfortunately, even bringing in an outside writer didn't save the Federation from being depicted ONCE AGAIN as the most incompetent spacefaring society in all of science fiction. Picard deciding to board the Scimitar BY HIMSELF?!?! WTF!!!!!!!!!!

[Wicked Pilot]

My wondering:

The Enterprise and the Romulan ships are dead in space, and the Scimitar has lost it's forward guns, but has 70% shields. Why not just turn the ship around and use aft weapons finish off the Enterprise?

As mentioned many times before, what is wrong with the Remans? Haven't they ever heard of Oaklies? Can't they defend their own ship from one man?

Where was the goddamn fed fleet? Couldn't they have come towards the Enterprise as opposed to staying put. Shouldn't they have known that area of space is comm resistant?

Where did the Remans get that ship from? They said they build it, but how the hell does a bunch of slave miners come up with a ship that is technologically more advanced than both the Federation and Romulan fleets?



As Obi Wan would say if he saw this movie, that's not a plot hole, it's a space station.

[Captain Kruger]

A plot hole you could fly the Scimitar through at Warp 9.

[EmperorMing]

Well, unfortunately, even bringing in an outside writer didn't save the Federation from being depicted ONCE AGAIN as the most incompetent spacefaring society in all of science fiction. Picard deciding to board the Scimitar BY HIMSELF?!?! WTF!!!!!!!!!!

He was playing Quake before the movie started...

[Graeme Dice]

Putting an end to a losing space battle, Picard rammed his ship into the Scimitar. I admired his tenacity, fighting to the last with whatever he had. When I heard the damage report on the Scimitar, I thought to myself "Ah ha! Now you've got them!" Picard had brilliantly managed to demolish his opponent's shields, disable his weapons, and, crucially, destroy his fighter craft. That ram took advantage of the Scimitar's exposed fighter bay while leaving intact the Enterprise's hangars. Now all he has to do is launch armed shuttles and the battle is his. And then... he went and did a completely different, suicidal course of action. Victory from the jaws of defeat from the jaws of victory.

What he should have done there was to separate the saucer section so that it would stay stuck in the Scimitar when it pulled away. Then, they have a nice big target to aim for if it manages to get its cloak fixed. Or, they could have used it to spray antimatter as in BOBW.

[Howedar]

What he should have done there was to separate the saucer section so that it would stay stuck in the Scimitar when it pulled away. Then, they have a nice big target to aim for if it manages to get its cloak fixed. Or, they could have used it to spray antimatter as in BOBW.

It would have stayed in just as easily if they hadn't seperated.



Considering how piss-poor the Remans were, if I'd been Picard I'd have gone in alone too. Besides, I thought the point was that their transporter could only handle a single person?

[Coalition]

Data forgot to bring reaction mass with him when he boarded the Scimitar. If he missed he would have drifted for a long time.

Here's another idea:

Geordi: "Data, instead of launching yourself at the Scimitar, let's go down to Engineering, and grab a couple dozen antimatter pods. We'll set them up in the passageway, and decompress the area. Repeat."

They should have boarded after the ram (and attached a tractor beam to keep them there). Then we could have seen a REAl boarding action...

Avast, ye scurvy dog!!!

Riker: "Worf, grab your Bat'leth. You're going Reman-hunting!"

Followed by scenes of Worf chasing the Remans through the ship with his Bat'leth, and he finally finds the bridge several minutes later, with blood covering him and making a puddle wherever he stands. When he walks, you can hear squishing sounds from his uniform shoes being soaked.

Repeat several scenes of Worf chasing Remans as comic relief (the cheesy movies where the people are being chased through several doors in a hall).

[Silver]

WHY beam ANYBODY over in the first place? Just beam over an ounce or so of antimatter. Hell, beam over an entire cannister to begin with! That woulda solved the problem fairly rapidly!

[Kamakazie Sith]

John Logan is obviously just a trekker, if he was a trekkie he would have known that the E-E carries shuttles.....with their OWN transporter systems.

I would have had Picard order an assault for to the shuttles and have the shuttles open fire on the Scimitar blowing holes in the hull and then use breaches as boarding points. They would board in suits and take the ship, and manage to disable the device without destroying the ship. They would then take the Scimitar back to UFP space under tractor beam for studying.

[Rob Wilson]

Riker: "Worf, grab your Bat'leth. You're going Reman-hunting!"

Followed by scenes of Worf chasing the Remans through the ship with his Bat'leth,

To the sound of the Benny Hill music no doubt.

and he finally finds the bridge several minutes later, with blood covering him and making a puddle wherever he stands. When he walks, you can hear squishing sounds from his uniform shoes being soaked.

I know the Remans are said to be pathetic, but even if they were seal pups, Worf would still never be a competent enough fighter to get his blade bloodied, let alone his uniform.

Repeat several scenes of Worf chasing Remans as comic relief (the cheesy movies where the people are being chased through several doors in a hall).

The only thing the moron is any use for.

[Rob Wilson]

John Logan is obviously just a trekker, if he was a trekkie he would have known that the E-E carries shuttles.....with their OWN transporter systems.

Runabouts have transporters, shuttles do not to the best of my knowledge.

I would have had Picard order an assault for to the shuttles and have the shuttles open fire on the Scimitar blowing holes in the hull and then use breaches as boarding points. They would board in suits and take the ship, and manage to disable the device without destroying the ship. They would then take the Scimitar back to UFP space under tractor beam for studying.

Or Alternatively, if the shields are down on the Scimitar (which they would have to be for the Shuttles to hurt it, or the crewmen to board through those holes) Why launch anything, just beam the Remans into space and Shinzon in the Brig. If the shields are up, your shuttles won't do a damned thing anyway.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Runabouts have transporters, shuttles do not to the best of my knowledge.

The shuttle that Data and Worf used in BOBW to bring back Picard was not a Runabout. However, I agree my statement that all shuttlecraft have transporters is a little hasty.

Or Alternatively, if the shields are down on the Scimitar (which they would have to be for the Shuttles to hurt it, or the crewmen to board through those holes) Why launch anything, just beam the Remans into space and Shinzon in the Brig. If the shields are up, your shuttles won't do a damned thing anyway.

Yes your right. With the shields up at 70% shuttles would be nothing.

I can't help but feel that they accidently cut the part that explains why the Scimitars shields didn't even flare when the E-E collided with her. 50 minutes of cut footage could explain a lot.

I was under the impression that they only had enough power to beam one person over.

[Rob Wilson]

Runabouts have transporters, shuttles do not to the best of my knowledge.

The shuttle that Data and Worf used in BOBW to bring back Picard was not a Runabout. However, I agree my statement that all shuttlecraft have transporters is a little hasty.

Forgot about that, plus I think Chakotay uses one in a Voyager episode to baord a Kazon ship and steal a Kazon brat (or something).

Or Alternatively, if the shields are down on the Scimitar (which they would have to be for the Shuttles to hurt it, or the crewmen to board through those holes) Why launch anything, just beam the Remans into space and Shinzon in the Brig. If the shields are up, your shuttles won't do a damned thing anyway.

Yes your right. With the shields up at 70% shuttles would be nothing.

I can't help but feel that they accidently cut the part that explains why the Scimitars shields didn't even flare when the E-E collided with her. 50 minutes of cut footage could explain a lot.

I was under the impression that they only had enough power to beam one person over.

What I meant was, if the shuttles have transporters then why bother wasting time and energy launching them, just do the dirty with all them and the E-E's transporters. You could at least steal and imprison the Reman bridge crew and Shinzon in the first minute and in the confusion keep on beaming the rest into space.

As to the missing footage. Unless it contained the plot, character work and some semblance of logic, there's little chance it could repair the damage.

Just once I'd like modern Trek to do something right. It's not asking that much

[Kamakazie Sith]

Runabouts have transporters, shuttles do not to the best of my knowledge.

The shuttle that Data and Worf used in BOBW to bring back Picard was not a Runabout. However, I agree my statement that all shuttlecraft have transporters is a little hasty.

Forgot about that, plus I think Chakotay uses one in a Voyager episode to baord a Kazon ship and steal a Kazon brat (or something).

Or Alternatively, if the shields are down on the Scimitar (which they would have to be for the Shuttles to hurt it, or the crewmen to board through those holes) Why launch anything, just beam the Remans into space and Shinzon in the Brig. If the shields are up, your shuttles won't do a damned thing anyway.

Yes your right. With the shields up at 70% shuttles would be nothing.

I can't help but feel that they accidently cut the part that explains why the Scimitars shields didn't even flare when the E-E collided with her. 50 minutes of cut footage could explain a lot.

I was under the impression that they only had enough power to beam one person over.

What I meant was, if the shuttles have transporters then why bother wasting time and energy launching them, just do the dirty with all them and the E-E's transporters. You could at least steal and imprison the Reman bridge crew and Shinzon in the first minute and in the confusion keep on beaming the rest into space.

As to the missing footage. Unless it contained the plot, character work and some semblance of logic, there's little chance it could repair the damage.

Just once I'd like modern Trek to do something right. It's not asking that much

Because it would have been cool to see all of the E-E shuttles launch and attack the Scimitar!!!

I just realized that I like the recent ST movies(First Contact, and Nemesis) for the battles and not the story...that is just sad.

[Raxmei]

Because it would have been cool to see all of the E-E shuttles launch and attack the Scimitar!!!

I just realized that I like the recent ST movies(First Contact, and Nemesis) for the battles and not the story...that is just sad.

Yes, finally a real fighter battle. They might even have brought out that captured scorpion, give it more than one scene to be useful. Trouble is, they'd need to give the Scimitar back some of its armaments in order to make the battle more exciting. Which would you prefer, a surviving scorpion hangar or some surface disruptors? And if we can get the thalaron weapon powering up while the fighter battle is going on we get to add Star Wars to the list of influences.

[Rob Wilson]

Because it would have been cool to see all of the E-E shuttles launch and attack the Scimitar!!!

I have to agree with Raxmei, a shuttle/ Scorpion battle would have been better cinematically (unfortunately it would play hell with the pacing which was a mess to start with). But if you had to have something, then small ships giving each other a twatting would have been a better adrenaline booster.

I just realized that I like the recent ST movies(First Contact, and Nemesis) for the battles and not the story...that is just sad.

I know Mike has touched on this in another thread in a way, but there was a bigger story to all th TOS movies (even ST:V, though I cringe at the ineptitude of it). In the latest films it's been lip-service to story, just get to the SFX and Fight scenes. once those start, the story gets binned. It's sad to think that "All Good things" made a better movie than Insurrection.

TPM and AOTC didn't make that mistake per se, it's just that the story wasn't exactly the worlds most gripping one (plus there were occassions in both where everything stopped to show off an SFX, then hastily restarted.), but at least they tried to get a story across and increase and expand the mythos of the SW universe. ST just treads water and makes the Film and continuity equivalent of Bottle Shows, which is a wasted opportunity. Give the fans some depth and breadth of story, let them know that there is something important happening!
On the local radio morning show the DJ's were discussing New films and were talking about TTT, and one of them mentioned seeing the Nemesis trailer (the only smart marketing idea so far, having that preface TTT ready for the January launch) and asked if anyone knew the exact date of the opening(obviously not that good at marketing though ), the other Dj's promptly replied "Who really cares?" and that's been the attitude of most people here. There's no compelling reason to go see the story, so who cares. Nemesis could be still-born here in the UK, which is a shame as if the damned thing made enough money there would always be the hope they would make a decent one next time.

[Rob Wilson]

Because it would have been cool to see all of the E-E shuttles launch and attack the Scimitar!!!

I just realized that I like the recent ST movies(First Contact, and Nemesis) for the battles and not the story...that is just sad.

Yes, finally a real fighter battle. They might even have brought out that captured scorpion, give it more than one scene to be useful. Trouble is, they'd need to give the Scimitar back some of its armaments in order to make the battle more exciting. Which would you prefer, a surviving scorpion hangar or some surface disruptors? And if we can get the thalaron weapon powering up while the fighter battle is going on we get to add Star Wars to the list of influences.

Yes it would have been very cool, but it would ahve played havok with some already patchy pacing.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Because it would have been cool to see all of the E-E shuttles launch and attack the Scimitar!!!

I just realized that I like the recent ST movies(First Contact, and Nemesis) for the battles and not the story...that is just sad.

Yes, finally a real fighter battle. They might even have brought out that captured scorpion, give it more than one scene to be useful. Trouble is, they'd need to give the Scimitar back some of its armaments in order to make the battle more exciting. Which would you prefer, a surviving scorpion hangar or some surface disruptors? And if we can get the thalaron weapon powering up while the fighter battle is going on we get to add Star Wars to the list of influences.

For the most part it would have been smart! Check out the pattern, does Picard think he is Rambo?

Generations...by himself (Yes, part of the story)
First Contact.....by himself to go and rescue Data, probably could have used some help.
Insurrection....by himself and a few of his bridge officers, why not some "marines"
Nemesis.....by himself and Data happens to save his ass and the entire crew of the E-E, if he would have brought a true assault force Data may not have died.

Mostly I'm tired of the writers sacrificing intelligence for some stupid plot device. Like the self destruct being offline....WTF.

[Kamakazie Sith]

I have to agree with Raxmei, a shuttle/ Scorpion battle would have been better cinematically (unfortunately it would play hell with the pacing which was a mess to start with). But if you had to have something, then small ships giving each other a twatting would have been a better adrenaline booster.

In a way I felt it would have done something for the movie. They show this decent size hangar bay with lots of fighters and then drop it. That's another thing I'm tired of them doing. If you show something like that then damnit USE IT!

I know Mike has touched on this in another thread in a way, but there was a bigger story to all th TOS movies (even ST:V, though I cringe at the ineptitude of it). In the latest films it's been lip-service to story, just get to the SFX and Fight scenes. once those start, the story gets binned. It's sad to think that "All Good things" made a better movie than Insurrection.

The truly sad thing is given some real research into the TNG movies one could come up with a really interesting story line.

TPM and AOTC didn't make that mistake per se, it's just that the story wasn't exactly the worlds most gripping one (plus there were occassions in both where everything stopped to show off an SFX, then hastily restarted.), but at least they tried to get a story across and increase and expand the mythos of the SW universe. ST just treads water and makes the Film and continuity equivalent of Bottle Shows, which is a wasted opportunity. Give the fans some depth and breadth of story, let them know that there is something important happening!
On the local radio morning show the DJ's were discussing New films and were talking about TTT, and one of them mentioned seeing the Nemesis trailer (the only smart marketing idea so far, having that preface TTT ready for the January launch) and asked if anyone knew the exact date of the opening(obviously not that good at marketing though ), the other Dj's promptly replied "Who really cares?" and that's been the attitude of most people here. There's no compelling reason to go see the story, so who cares. Nemesis could be still-born here in the UK, which is a shame as if the damned thing made enough money there would always be the hope they would make a decent one next time.

Agreed

[Rob Wilson]

I have to agree with Raxmei, a shuttle/ Scorpion battle would have been better cinematically (unfortunately it would play hell with the pacing which was a mess to start with). But if you had to have something, then small ships giving each other a twatting would have been a better adrenaline booster.

In a way I felt it would have done something for the movie. They show this decent size hangar bay with lots of fighters and then drop it. That's another thing I'm tired of them doing. If you show something like that then damnit USE IT!

It still raises the question brought up eslewhere of where the hell they built them all. How did second-class citizens, doomed to work in mines and doomed to live out their lives on one planet in the Empire, manage to build a ship that was not only bigger than anything else it was technologically light-years ahewad of anything else th Empire had?
It's like someone writing a film about how 1950's Siberia manages to assassinate Stalin and his politburo, take over the USSR and strike against the US with the Backfire C and SU-35's they built in secret! It makes no sense. What the hell was Logan thinking?

[Uraniun235]

Fifty minutes of cut footage?

Has the entirety of Paramount become incompetent now? If they hadn't blown so much on all that footage, they might have been able to pay for a better space battle.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Fifty minutes of cut footage?

Has the entirety of Paramount become incompetent now? If they hadn't blown so much on all that footage, they might have been able to pay for a better space battle.

It's hard to say if they are incomptent. I think it is pretty much accepted that B&B, and probably Paramount in general, see the Star Trek franchise as a cash cow. Hopefully now with STN box office failure Paramount will see that most people aren't going to go and see a movie just because it is named Star Trek.

Hopefully they will see that you need a decent story, with realistic people and actions. No more plot devices......

Hopefully they will see that in order to make money you have to spend it.