Elton John points out the obvious

[Darth Wong]

From CNN:

Elton John: 'I would ban religion completely'
POSTED: 8:59 a.m. EST, November 13, 2006

LONDON, England (AP) -- Organized religion fuels anti-gay discrimination and other forms of bias, pop star Elton John said in an interview published Saturday.

"I think religion has always tried to turn hatred toward gay people," John said in the Observer newspaper's Music Monthly Magazine. "Religion promotes the hatred and spite against gays."

"But there are so many people I know who are gay and love their religion," he said. "From my point of view, I would ban religion completely. Organized religion doesn't seem to work. It turns people into really hateful lemmings and it's not really compassionate."

John also criticized religious leaders for failing to do anything about conflicts around the world.

"Why aren't they having a conclave? Why aren't they coming together?"

John said those in his own field have been similarly lax.

"It's like the peace movement in the '60s. Musicians got through to people by getting out there and doing peace concerts, but we don't seem to do them any more," he said. "If John Lennon were alive today, he'd be leading it with a vengeance."

Countdown to massively hypocritical self-righteous outrage from churches that would like to completely eliminate homosexuality in 5 ... 4 ... 3 ... 2 ... 1

Nice to see somebody famous having the guts to say the Emperor has no clothes, though. It's unbelievable how churches get away with hating certain minorities. Nobody ever blames organized religion itself in the Judeo-Christo-Muslim regions; it's alway just this particular leader or that one, and they're "misinterpreting" it ... what a load of bullshit.

[Admiral Valdemar]

This is great. It's obvious, yes, we all know that here. But to the masses, something as clear cut as that statement from a A-class celebrity is going to rattle a few cages.

I can't wait to hear the comments against this. I wonder how many will play the homophobe card?

[Ghost Rider]

This is great. It's obvious, yes, we all know that here. But to the masses, something as clear cut as that statement from a A-class celebrity is going to rattle a few cages.

I can't wait to hear the comments against this. I wonder how many will play the homophobe card?

Aside from it'll be the first thing on their mind? He's obviously a part of the homosexual contingent to destroy all good in the universe.

The article and the statement are excellent to hear, but I can smell the fuckers coming out telling every sheep about how bad Elton John and by extension homosexuals are evil, without ever once addressing his points.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Already I am finding comments about him being ignorant of other religions (as if he was going to talk about Taoism in the first place, sheesh) and that Xtians don't "hate" anybody. The love the sinner, hate the sin mantra is also propagating.

[Darth Lucifer]

It's unbelievable how churches get away with hating certain minorities. Nobody ever blames organized religion itself in the Judeo-Christo-Muslim regions; it's alway just this particular leader or that one, and they're "misinterpreting" it ... what a load of bullshit.

Bible Quotes:

Lev.18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Lev.20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

From the Quran:

7:80-1 "And Lot! (Remember) when he said unto his folk: Will ye commit abomination such as no creature ever did before you? Lo! ye come with lust unto men instead of women. Nay, but ye are wanton folk."

26:165-6 "What! Of all creatures do ye come unto the males, And leave the wives your Lord created for you ? Nay, but ye are froward folk."

27:54-55 "And Lot! when he said unto his folk: Will ye commit abomination knowingly? Must ye needs lust after men instead of women ? Nay, but ye are folk who act senselessly."

29:28-29 "And Lot! (Remember) when he said unto his folk: Lo! ye commit lewdness such as no creature did before you. For come ye not in unto males."

Bullshit verified.

Already I am finding comments...that Xtians don't "hate" anybody. The love the sinner, hate the sin mantra is also propagating.

This is known as "Having your cake and eating it too." I always ask fundies to quote me some scripture which substantiates this popular evangelism technique, but so far no luck.

[Admiral Valdemar]

No, no, see, that's all Old Testament stuff. Jesus was a far nicer chap and we're definitely meant to embrace everyone openly, using cherry picked verses to back that tactic up.

[Darth Lucifer]

No, no, see, that's all Old Testament stuff. Jesus was a far nicer chap and we're definitely meant to embrace everyone openly, using cherry picked verses to back that tactic up.

Right, I forgot the Old Testament is only to be used (and sparingly at that) for filling in the gaps when the NT doesn't quite cut it. I was absent the day they taught that one at Sunday School.

[The Spartan]

No, no, see, that's all Old Testament stuff. Jesus was a far nicer chap and we're definitely meant to embrace everyone openly, using cherry picked verses to back that tactic up.

But we still must post the Ten Commandments everywhere, insist upon literal creation, teach that the flood was not a myth and that the Jews were slaves in Egypt for 400 years even though history does not support this.

Oh, and we also can eat pork, swear, drink to excess and don't have to go to church except when we want to.

[Lost Soal]

I do have a few small concerns with the outcry and the enforcement.
Simply "insulting" religions has resulting in protests and outcries, some violent, by coming out and saying your beliefs are now banned, you pretty much guaranteeing there will be riots.

Then as I say there's the enforcement and what exactly you mean by banned.
Do we caution then lockup the annoying Christian running his mouth about Jesus at Newcastle Monument, does it mean banning public religious gatherings?
Would church services be allowed still or would all churches and mosques be closed?
Are we going to start acting like China and lock up someone for possessing a Bible?
What about holidays with religious links such as Easter and Christmas, are they banned, renamed or redesigned?

Eltons statement could get very messy if carried out without serious planning and considerations.

[Rye]

No, no, see, that's all Old Testament stuff. Jesus was a far nicer chap and we're definitely meant to embrace everyone openly, using cherry picked verses to back that tactic up.

Yes, Jesus is well known for speaking out in defence of people that indulged in sexual practises not in line with old jewish biblical opinion.

[Darth Wong]

I do have a few small concerns with the outcry and the enforcement.
Simply "insulting" religions has resulting in protests and outcries, some violent, by coming out and saying your beliefs are now banned, you pretty much guaranteeing there will be riots.

Then as I say there's the enforcement and what exactly you mean by banned.
Do we caution then lockup the annoying Christian running his mouth about Jesus at Newcastle Monument, does it mean banning public religious gatherings?
Would church services be allowed still or would all churches and mosques be closed?
Are we going to start acting like China and lock up someone for possessing a Bible?
What about holidays with religious links such as Easter and Christmas, are they banned, renamed or redesigned?

Eltons statement could get very messy if carried out without serious planning and considerations.

Oh for fuck's sake, you're treating it as if it's supposed to be a carefully thought out political action plan or something. He's just griping about how organized religion pisses all over certain minorities, and how we'd be better off if there was no such thing.

As for the Christofascists, all of that "love the sinner, hate the sin" rhetoric sounds pretty good until it's thrown back in your face, doesn't it? Love the Christian, hate Christianity.

[Ryushikaze]

This is going to raise a shitstorm, and I applaud Elton for raising it.

Also, it's amusing that when I read this thread, Mike's sig was switched over the Pat Roberson/ family values one. I imagine the look on his face after this will be almost exactly the same as the photo in the sig.

[CaptJodan]

As absolutely spot on as Elton is, I can't imagine his words will sway many people at all. He's lived his life in sin, and this is just more proof of the Evil Atheist/Evil Homosexual Conspiracy attempting to destroy our rights to our faith which grants us the right to hate homosexuality.

It also doesn't adhere to the Golden Mean Fallacy that Americans in particular love so much. You're likely not even going to sway moderates with that kind of statement.

Having said that, I support what he's said. It's not like he isn't right or anything.

[Haruko]

He's lived his life in sin, and this is just more proof of the Evil Atheist/Evil Homosexual Conspiracy attempting to destroy our rights to our faith which grants us the right to hate homosexuality.

Yeah, if only his life were as "clean" as that of American agnostic orator Robert Ingersoll giving clergy a hard time trying to say, "see! He's a sinner! There is no reason to take him seriously!"

Even taking that into account, and regardless of the fact that he's stating the obvious, I give him some kudos for having the ca hones to say what he did on record.

[Admiral Valdemar]

The irony of discrediting Elton John for speaking out against religiously motivated homophobia because he's gay is so thick with irony, I'd need a chainsaw to cut it.

"Hey, hear this? Elton John says us religious folks persecute people of his lifestyle."

"What? Bullshit. Don't listen to him, he's just a junked up fag."

[Frank Hipper]

As for the Christofascists, all of that "love the sinner, hate the sin" rhetoric sounds pretty good until it's thrown back in your face, doesn't it? Love the Christian, hate Christianity.

While I get your point, and I know you've also made the point I'm about to make, so I'm going to say this for everyone else:
That's not entirely valid: a Christian can change their mind about their belief, I cannot change my mind about my orientation.

"Hate the sin" is "Hate the sinner", when that sin is an inherant part of a person.

[Darth Wong]

As for the Christofascists, all of that "love the sinner, hate the sin" rhetoric sounds pretty good until it's thrown back in your face, doesn't it? Love the Christian, hate Christianity.

While I get your point, and I know you've also made the point I'm about to make, so I'm going to say this for everyone else:
That's not entirely valid: a Christian can change their mind about their belief, I cannot change my mind about my orientation.

"Hate the sin" is "Hate the sinner", when that sin is an inherant part of a person.

True; it's not quite equivalent. But Christofascists think it's not equivalent going the opposite way, ie- it's somehow more acceptable to discriminate against homosexuality than religion. So throwing their own rhetoric back in their face in a manner that implies moral equivalence may not be technically correct but it's still quite a shock to them.

[Molyneux]

Bible Quotes:

Lev.18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Lev.20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Keep in mind that in another Leviticus verse, the eating of shellfish is described using the exact same Hebrew word, translated to 'abomination'.

[2000AD]

Do we caution then lockup the annoying Christian running his mouth about Jesus at Newcastle Monument, does it mean banning public religious gatherings?

That guy was really annoying. I remember when he asked my best friend "Have you found Christ?" and he said "Yes, all my life, but i still don't agree with what your doing." Shut him up for a few seconds, but the best time was when he bumped into the hindu/bhuddist-cross meditation guy handing out pamhlets. Angry oratory vs mellowed out never ending patience.

[CaptJodan]

Keep in mind that in another Leviticus verse, the eating of shellfish is described using the exact same Hebrew word, translated to 'abomination'.

I know you can nail most Christian religious people on this one, but sadly you can't nail where my religious background came from on this one. Creatures such as "bottom feeders"...pigs...any kind of seafood other than fish pretty much, that kind of thing, is always frowned upon in the SDA school of thought. They follow that rule, I can assure you.

In addition:
Water in to Wine? Nope, Jesus just made grape juice.
Jewlery is evil (I think they allow wedding rings, but not much else).
Saturday service, of course.

They're like Jews who believe in Jesus.