Is it hard to come out of the 'atheist closet?'

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2006-11-13 12:09pm

Over here in my social circle,there is a stigma to atheism. Its ok to be an agnostic or in our context, a "free-thinker", but step over to the line of full blown atheist( there is no god) and ppl starts to get disturbed.

I think its partially because of the "don't fuck with religion and race" messages we get cramped down our throats from day 1 and because most Singaporeans are severely superstitious and follow a variant of Pascal wager.

At least I know that my belief in ghosts and the like is irrational, and I can reject my irrational behvariour. Many here can't.

Of course, that's also a result of MY social circle. With christians on one hand and muslims on the other, there's too thin a space for an atheist. My friends fully accept it, the problem comes from "friends of friends". Occasionally, I get into debates because I get tired of some bullshit someone or another is raising and that's the only form of friction I see overtly. Covertly, I have no idea.

Rekkon · Post by **Rekkon** » 2006-11-13 01:07pm

My 'coming out' was a bit nebulous. If I had to pick a point, it would be a conversation I had with my mom. She had kind of a subdued disapproval and ended on the 'respect others beliefs' note. Apart from a few snippy "going to church wouldn't kill you" comments during the holiday season in the year or so after that conversation, she has left it alone, even when I refused to come home for my brother's confirmation, so I assume she has accepted it, though she could just be too busy to care. When I was young, church was just one of those things your parents told you to do, and I did it without much thought. I remember questioning a few details that did not make sense, and that just intensified through high school until I entirely shrugged off the bullshit in college. I stopped going to church entirely a while ago. If someone does not like it, screw 'em. I am not going to waste an hour of my life listening to bullshit just to make someone happy. While I do not hide it, I do not trumpeted my atheism either since I A) live in freaking North Dakota, B) have been away at college and now grad school (see family less) and C) come from a small town (~200). While I would like to think it would not be an issue if everyone knew, I have no desire to find out. One set of grandparents knows. My grandmother is nice and just never brings up the subject, but my grandfather is set in his ways conservative if not an outright fundie. Had a few fights. I generally avoid him now, though I think he deliberately does little things to irk me whenever we are together, though that could just be his personality in general which has grated on my since I became more mature than he is. Not sure if my step-grandparents know or how far word has trickled through the rest of the immediate family. Reasonably sure the Catholic side of the extended family would throw a fit if they knew though.

The Spartan · Post by **The Spartan** » 2006-11-13 01:42pm

I'm still in it.

For me to reveal my atheism would result in more problems than it would solve. Fortunately I'm not being forced to go to church or to have long discussions on god or whatever, so not revealing doesn't really cause me any problems. The few times I'm forced to "pray" are when I'm in someone else's home for a special occasion or event, what have you. As a result I feel compelled to shutup and not do anything for a moment, out of courtesy if nothing else.

My dad, and by extension, myself, are the outcasts of his family because we're not church goers and my dad (super-conservative, old school Texas bigot that he is) was "horrible" enough to get a divorce (before me) and remarry. The result being, as I said, that I don't get hassled about religion. One of my brothers is super-fundie-angry-man, but I only see him occasionally and even then don't even bother because frankly, I'd have an easier time convincing the bricks in the wall that they're five year old girls who should practice braiding my hair.

I'm not terribly sure about my mom's side of the family. I rarely speak with or see them since they're across the pond in Scotland.

My friends and I don't really discuss religion with them and when pressed will generally stick to some semblance of Deism which I have do and do still occasionally flirt with, though if I'm honest with myself, it's more out of an old habit of belief and a fear of ending, than out of a logically deduced conclusion. If they were to know that I was atheist, I'm not sure how they'd react precisely but based upon the reaction of at least one of them regarding atheism, it would not be decidedly negative.

At any rate, the point that I've been tip-toeing around is that it would solve few, if any, problems that are hardly problems at all and would cause far more trouble than it would solve. I wish it were otherwise, but well, you know the old saying about wishing in one hand...

mjn6172 · Post by **mjn6172** » 2006-11-13 02:25pm

I'm still in the closet as well, at least with regards to my family. My friends and co-workers know, and my girlfriend knows, but I haven't told my parents yet. My family is very religious (Southern Baptists, and my grandfather on Dad's side was a Baptist preacher.) I don't think they'd disown me, but it would lead to a LOT of strife within the family. They do know I'm not very religious, and basically the only times I go to church are Christmas and Easter (and really only then because DAd sings in the choir and that's when they put on their big musicals); but it would really upset Mom if she knew I was an atheist.

Frankly, I get enough hellfire and brimstone speeches. I don't need to look for more of them.

CarsonPalmer · Post by **CarsonPalmer** » 2006-11-13 06:46pm

To Rakkon:

I can sympathize with you wanting to come out as an atheist, but it seems rather selfish for you to refuse to come home for your brother's Confirmation. That is a pretty big Catholic sacrament, and I would be somewhat hurt if my brother refused to come for that, especially because most of the family gets together for that.

LeftWingExtremist · Post by **LeftWingExtremist** » 2006-11-13 07:47pm

Well I'm glad my family has always been secular family, heck sometimes my mother says more anti-religious stuff than I do. So luckily i've never been in a "closet" to come out of yet. That said I do admire the strenght of character of atheists who have to live with religious and especcially fanatical family members. I spose I'm very lucky to have such great parents.

The Spartan · Post by **The Spartan** » 2006-11-13 08:12pm

Editing stupid mistakes in this paragraph(Additions bolded):

The Spartan wrote:My friends and I don't really discuss religion with them and when pressed I will generally stick to some semblance of Deism which I have followed and do still occasionally flirt with, though if I'm honest with myself, it's more out of an old habit of belief and a fear of ending, than out of a logically deduced conclusion. If they were to know that I was atheist, I'm not sure how they'd react precisely but based upon the reaction of at least one of them regarding atheism, it would be decidedly negative.

CaptJodan · Post by **CaptJodan** » 2006-11-13 08:39pm

I'm pretty selective. My immediate family knows that I certainly don't believe in their God. My dad describes himself as agnostic being raised SDA, however he proclaims to believe in the flood, Jesus, and all that other stuff and doesn't investigate anything else, rejects all but the microest of evolution, believes the Earth is 10,000 years or less old yadda yadda...so he clearly is an idiot who doesn't know what agnostic means.

My mother is the same, but without claiming to be agnostic. She believes organized religion is bad, so she just believes what she believes and refuses to listen to anyone, be it some pastor or me or anyone else. Challenging her beliefs, whatever they are today, is frowned on.

Mom didn't like it much, but she also didn't verbally object. Just a look and brief discussion of disappointment before she dropped it. Dad seemed to be ok if I called myself agnostic but the moment I said Athiest suddenly it's like "Oh no, don't be that!".

My grandparents I have not told an likely won't unless they really....really piss me off (that's not a challenge for them, really). Or unless they ask or it comes up naturally. They're as fundie as it gets, and would likely react badly. Friends and co-workers are on a person by person basis. There are few people who don't look at you with contempt when you say you're an athiest and they're even moderately religious.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2006-11-13 08:46pm

I sympathize with those not able to be honest with their families. On the other hand, it's good you can spend time with them, even if it's in church.

For me, going to church is nothing short of torture. The moment I step foot in one is the day I need to be bound up in a straight jacket and committed.

God, I hated that shit. I had to go to an evangelical church (fundie-light, as I call it now) and endure the hours of droning... The song worship consisted of singing typical songs ('He's got the whole world in his hands," etc.) that must have been created for preschoolers, or maybe it's people on the same emotional and intellectual level. Ack those songs drove me nuts. Grow the fuck up, you bunch of dipshits.

Xess · Post by **Xess** » 2006-11-13 08:56pm

My family knows I am an athiest, I never really told them they just found figured it out. My friends know too and don't care.

I was worried for a while about my family but they are very accepting.

Rekkon · Post by **Rekkon** » 2006-11-13 09:15pm

CarsonPalmer wrote:To Rakkon:

I can sympathize with you wanting to come out as an atheist, but it seems rather selfish for you to refuse to come home for your brother's Confirmation. That is a pretty big Catholic sacrament, and I would be somewhat hurt if my brother refused to come for that, especially because most of the family gets together for that.

*smack*
Rekkon! With an 'e!'

"Refused" is perhaps a bit misleading. I had not been planning to go home that weekend, but I said I would for anything that might be planned after the actual church service. However, do to various people being extremely busy (shift work sucks), there was no separate family gathering. I am perhaps a bit militant on the issue, but I never want to set foot in a church again. My not attending has never come up in conversation with my brother since, so I cannot be entirely sure, though I think he really does/did not care. My impression of his take on the event is about what I had at that age 'ya whatever, I did this thing (cake and presents!) can I go do (insert preferred activity) now?' Also it was Luthern (as is most of the family). I guess I do not know the relative importance placed on confirmation between the two, though I assume Luthern is lower (i.e less fanatic).

So selfish? I suppose, but the irrationality has consumed too many of my life-hours already for me to want to spend another (plus driving and gas money) to witness the culmination of my brother's indoctrination. Perhaps if I did not care or was borderline it would be different, but I actively disapprove.

I actually feel a bit guilty that I have not provided more of an atheistic counterpoint in my brother's upbringing (he is eight years younger). Part of it was not wanting to spark a fight and part was just being away at college. I do not think he is very religious, but I will feel bad if he eventually mutates into an uber fundie or something.

Singular Intellect · Post by **Singular Intellect** » 2006-11-13 10:51pm

I used to think I was agnostic, but then after experience and learning here at SDN, I consider myself a complete atheist.

I'll never hide that fact, online or elsewhere, and I tend to find I will attack religion mercilessly for it's faults and crimes against humanity if the subject comes up.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2006-11-13 11:50pm

mjn6172 wrote:I'm still in the closet as well, at least with regards to my family. My friends and co-workers know, and my girlfriend knows, but I haven't told my parents yet. My family is very religious (Southern Baptists, and my grandfather on Dad's side was a Baptist preacher.) I don't think they'd disown me, but it would lead to a LOT of strife within the family. They do know I'm not very religious, and basically the only times I go to church are Christmas and Easter (and really only then because DAd sings in the choir and that's when they put on their big musicals); but it would really upset Mom if she knew I was an atheist.

Frankly, I get enough hellfire and brimstone speeches. I don't need to look for more of them.

I'm in very much the same situation. If I owned up, I would come VERY close to being disowned at the very least. It's a good thing I'm not totally atheistic at least; more deist than anything really. It's simply my mother's continual preaching at me that really gets to me...

Maraxus · Post by **Maraxus** » 2006-11-14 12:13am

It wasn't very difficult for me. I thought the biggest problem was going to be my devout catholic grandparents. We were driving back to my house one day, and I got on the subject of science somehow. After saying that I didn't think that there was a divine guidence behind any of it, my grandfather asked me if I was an atheist, to which I replied 'Yes'. He then said 'Oh.' and continued driving and talking as if nothing had happened.

Very strange, actually.

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2006-11-14 02:54am

Coming out? Heh. As I've mentioned elsewhere, most of my extended family members are what someone else here called "Holiday Catholics." They mostly, but not all, go to mass on Christmas and Easter, and on the anniversary of my paternal grandparents' deaths, as well as the occasional wedding. But no one really talks about religion or his or her beliefs (or lack therof). I have no idea how religious, say, my cousins are, and I don't care. Those with children of their own have gotten their children baptized but it's just as likely for traditional reasons as for any real "belief." Most of my family probably does believe in a god, but beyond that it isn't all that important to them, from, what I can tell.

I've never told anyone in my family that I'm a non-believer. In fact, I don't use the term "atheist" because unless I am discussing religion, I never even think about it. I would no more identify myself as "atheist" to the people in my life than I would say I'm "heterosexual" or "male" or "white" (which I am). It's so obvious to anyone who knows me that it is pointless to even mention it. Religion is so far removed from my own life that I don't even discuss the the fact that it isn't in my life.

I am not afraid to criticize religion, especially Catholicism, being as I was baptized a Catholic and confirmed during 12 years of Catholic school and know a little about its absurdities. On the odd occasion that I fid myself in a church, I will sit and stand at the right times, but that's it. I don't take communion, sing, kneel, recite prayers or partipate in any part of the mass (aside from the "peace be with you" handshake, which is a nice enough sentiment to share). During ggrade school I beleived in the idea of a "God" but was never all that interested in praying or really even thinking about it when I wasn't forced to attend mass. I stopped believing in it all sometime before entering high school, or perhaps shortly after when I decided it was all nonsensical and that was it.

Strangely enough, most of my friends are non-believers, as far as I know. At least one is an "atheist" and when we first met we were talking about what we were, but beyond that we've never discussed religion. One of my friends is possibly a Buddhist or some such, but I don't care to ask, so I don't know for sure. I tend to socialize with people who share my political views and this is no different.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2006-11-14 03:04am

My parents know; I think my dad (Who is Buddhist) disapproved, but didn't really press the issue and just implied that I'd find something to believe in in the future. My mother hasn't really mentioned it, and I'm fairly sure she's agnostic herself.

My close friends know, and most of my friends are fairly aware that I'm not exactly a religious person, since I am fairly critical of it. It's not something I advertise, but when people ask me, I reply honestly. Luckily, I live in a fairly liberal area and haven't really received any backlash for my (lack of) beliefs.

McC · Post by **McC** » 2006-11-14 09:34am

Dawkins addressed this issue recently in a lecture in Lynchburg, VA. For the video, see here.

ImpishAngel · Post by **ImpishAngel** » 2006-11-14 11:58am

I'm not an *atheist*... but I did recently share with my mother and father that I no longer want to be methodist and wish to become wiccan...

It was *not* a dinner time conversation. It ended with my mother calling me ungreatful, and my father asking me what ''Gad had done that was so wrong for me"

-shrugs- Then again, it's not the first thing we dissagree on... but at least they have the decency to support me in the fact I don't need all the ''Jesus loves you'' crap shoved down my throat any more...

Losonti Tokash · Post by **Losonti Tokash** » 2006-11-14 12:13pm

My mother is the only family member who knows I'm atheist. She disapproves but while I was going through a phase of "shopping" for religions she helped me do research and drove me to various temple-type places around town.

My friends all know, but none of their parents do. I've got enough parents disliking me for irrational reasons without that one added on top.

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2006-11-14 01:04pm

We, my brothers and I, where probably quite lucky, my Dads an technically an anglican who doesn't give much of a shit (but I suspect he believes in a deity) & my Mum gave up trying to get us to go to church after she realisd that she didn't particularly want to go every sunday after all.

drachefly · Post by **drachefly** » 2006-11-14 02:08pm

I had it very easy. I could name things close to home, but to give an idea of how it was in the church itself...

my youth pastor described the miracle of the loaves and the fishes as those who had thought to bring lunch providing for the others anonymously... which was a miracle in the sense that it was an important illustration of the principles of Christianity, and it was caused by the holy spirit within those present.

Now, that, for proper definitions of 'holy spirit', I'll buy.

Turin · Post by **Turin** » 2006-11-14 02:21pm

There wasn't much of a need for me to "come out" to my family as an atheist, as it was a progression over a period of time starting at around 11 yrs old when I told my father (an agnostic) that I didn't want to go to Sunday school anymore because I didn't believe in God and thought it was silly... much to my Catholic stepmother's dismay.

Fortunately my family feels like we can pretty much discuss whatever we want with each other (except for the Big Not-Really-Secret of all the closeted bisexuals in the family, but that's a different story

). So it's not like I stood up at dinner one day and had to say "mom, dad... I'm an atheist." Amusingly enough, earlier this year my stepmother told us at a family get-together that she doesn't believe in God anymore... what was amusing was that she said it like she was telling a dirty joke in a nice restaurant. Pretty much everyone there was like "well, duh," and we had a good laugh.

In my social circle, we're pretty much all non-religious or at least tolerantly religious. Not to say we don't get into a few fierce debates from time to time. But there's no pressure there to keep quiet about it.

The one that's always a bit more tricky is the office. We're mostly design professionals who are rather sensitive about avoiding the ol' Career Limiting Move. So there's a lot of Golden Mean bullshit floating around in the office social circles, which probably contributes to very few direct personality clashes... but at the same time there are a few devout Christians who will cause you subtle grief if you're not careful about who you talk about your lack of faith with. Unfortunately, this is far more poisonous (in my mind) that having the occassional sharp-tounged debate at the local watering hole with some colleages.

Medic · Post by **Medic** » 2006-11-14 02:26pm

McC wrote:Dawkins addressed this issue recently in a lecture in Lynchburg, VA. For the video, see here.

I really should've mentioned my mother earlier: she is an atheist and so naturally, she knows what I am. We've even talked about it in depth and the only belief she was is that God is something inside us -- somewhat different than even the Einsteinian religion or God but definitely not the Christian God, and she'll tell you that. It's because of her lack of belief that my brother, sister and I were spared from going to Catholic church [much to the chagrin of my devoutly Catholic grandmother whom doesn't know]

She doesn't know too because most of my childhood I was agnostic, at one point [for a few months in 8th grade] I went to church with my best friend but that only solidified my lack of belief. I went, I prayed, I felt. But what I felt during prayer was nothing and never having been conditioned positively towards religion, this was a very strong knock against my mere agnosticism, it only took an SDN to assert my atheism-by-birth. I was only agnostic as long as I was by virtue of falling in with Right-Wing talking heads after 9/11 [and their ideology presents a unified, unbreakable set of beliefs, religion couldn't be taken out of the equation]. I've only been as I am now since my senior year of high school.

Amusingly, my brother's been atheist since at least middle school, but I've never been able to get him to take a look at stuff like logic, the nitty-gritty of evolution debates, and the stuff you'll find in SLAM and on the main site. He's seemed always less inquisitive than me and headstrong so at least he fell on the right side.

Trogdor · Post by **Trogdor** » 2006-11-14 02:52pm

I guess I'm still more or less in the closet. My mother knows that I'm "not into religion" but I suspect she believes that it's more apathy and an unwillingness to get up early in the morning on Sundays to attend church than me truly being an atheist. I never made any secret of how boring I found church or how much I hated Sunday school when I was growing up. She may also still believe that I'll find my way back to religion. I know she once did.

The rest of my family's a different story. Several of the people on my father's side are borderline fundies. One of my aunts often tries to "save" my mother, and my mother's only in a different sect of Christianity.

Another of my aunts once ranted for about twenty minutes about how she knew God would save her ex-boyfriend's dog, because whenever she thought about it and flipped through her bible, whatever page she randomly stopped on had the word "heal" on it somewhere.

Oh, and my father's retired parents fill their days by going to church.

So, yeah, I keep my non-believer status quiet for the most part. I don't consider it to be some horrible, oppresive secret, though. I didn't wear my beliefs on my sleeve when I was a Catholic; I see no reason to do so now. And honestly, what would it change? I'd still attend chruch on X-mas and Easter with my family, I'd still go to my sister's confirmation like I went to her first holy communion. I've been doing those things because my family wants me there with them, not because I feel the need to maintain any sort of deception. Really, the only foreseeable effect is that my already annoying relatives would probably try and "save" me.

Honorable Mention · Post by **Honorable Mention** » 2006-11-14 03:35pm

Technically, I'm Catholic. I've my doubts, and have only just recently begun considering atheism as a definite possibility. If I go for it, I'll likely not tell my family. Even if I didn't end up "crossing the line", I would probably still be quiet about it.

My father and I have had multiple discussions about it so I suppose I could tell him, I'd just rather not.