Did einstein even say this?

[haard]

Einstein isn't an irrefutable authority for Christian fundamentalists. At my parents' church there's a guy who rejects the Theory of Relativity because "Einstein was morally bankrupt and helped create the atom bomb."

I only wish I was making that up. The fact that the guy's vote counts just as much as mine makes me feel very empty inside.

Ah, just like Ze Germans would not allow the use his theories because they were 'Jewish science'

[Gil Hamilton]

His Highschool diploma*
With 6 being the best grade and one being the worst.

1.German 6
2. French 3
3. English -
4. Italian 5
6. History 6
7. Geography 4
8. Algebra 6
9. Geometry 6
10. Descriptive geometry 6
11. Physics 6
12. Chemistry 5
13. Natural history 5
14. Drawing (Art) 4
15. Drawing (Technical) 4

He passed as the best in his class and actually jumped a class earlier in his life.

*Actually the Matura, the paper which grants permission to study at a university in Switzerland.[/list]

Clearly I bought into an urban myth. Thanks for the correction.

[Thinkmarble]

For completness sake:
He left school early at 15 without an diploma, the reason I remember being that he had some run ins with rather authoritian teacher, but I do not trust my memory in that regard. He then restarted school an year later to get his matura, which he managed quite successfully.


I suspect that the myth came up for two reasons, that he left school and that the swiss grading system is the inverse of the one used in germany and austria (1 best, 6 worst in germany).

[Darth Wong]

The thing that really pisses me off about the "Einstein flunked school" meme is that he was a fucking university professor. What kind of a retard can possibly believe that a man can be a university professor after flunking out of school? Do people think he worked in the patent office his whole life? Even if he had, do they really think the Swiss Patent Office was hiring high-school dropouts?

The whole "Einstein flunked school" brainbug was created by anti-intellectual liars who want to believe that the ability to perform well in school is virtually irrelevant, primarily because they themselves have no scholastic ability.

[Rye]

That reminds me of a "History of Darwin" I read from a fundamentalist christian once, he said that Darwin flunked school and then went to Oxford University because he couldn't make it in real school. The ignorance and bullshit these people can propagate is nothing short of distracting, like if you had one in the car with you who was saying this shit, you could blame him if you crashed.

[Darth Wong]

The problem with debates between intellectuals and anti-intellectuals is that anti-intellectuals, almost by definition, don't give a damn about intellectual integrity. So if the intellectual expects an honest debate, he's going to get a rude surprise.

[Gil Hamilton]

The thing that really pisses me off about the "Einstein flunked school" meme is that he was a fucking university professor. What kind of a retard can possibly believe that a man can be a university professor after flunking out of school? Do people think he worked in the patent office his whole life? Even if he had, do they really think the Swiss Patent Office was hiring high-school dropouts?

The whole "Einstein flunked school" brainbug was created by anti-intellectual liars who want to believe that the ability to perform well in school is virtually irrelevant, primarily because they themselves have no scholastic ability.

Well, not only that but his job in the Swiss Patent Office was reviewing technical patents to make sure they were kosher and he even made corrections to them.

I didn't think he flunked out, but I was lead to understand that early on he didn't do so hot, which as it turns out was obviously not true. I heard it enough times, you know, and it didn't seem like its inconsistant for someone to due poorly in grade school and still be a genius. After all, poor marks in school don't necessarily mean you are stupid. Especially since it was true that he was a very late speaker.

[Surlethe]

I didn't think he flunked out, but I was lead to understand that early on he didn't do so hot, which as it turns out was obviously not true. I heard it enough times, you know, and it didn't seem like its inconsistant for someone to due poorly in grade school and still be a genius. After all, poor marks in school don't necessarily mean you are stupid. Especially since it was true that he was a very late speaker.

Actually, I would think it much more likely that a genius does well in grade school, and does more and more poorly as he progresses through high school and into university. A very intelligent person will be able to breeze through elementary tasks, and won't develop the work ethic necessary to complete the development of his skills. One of the big problems in special education is to challenge brighter students so they don't become bored with classes and fail to develop their study skills and habits.

[Gil Hamilton]

Actually, I would think it much more likely that a genius does well in grade school, and does more and more poorly as he progresses through high school and into university. A very intelligent person will be able to breeze through elementary tasks, and won't develop the work ethic necessary to complete the development of his skills. One of the big problems in special education is to challenge brighter students so they don't become bored with classes and fail to develop their study skills and habits.

I've known people who it was the exact opposite. They get stuck in classes by age group and do completely shitty in those classes because they are so boring to them that they simply don't care to do the work because they don't care. Once they get to things that are actually new, they are actually engaged and do well.

It was like that with me. I did abysmally in grade school and middle school. Why? I didn't care, because there was nothing being taught that I wasn't familiar with except in math class, because due to advanced placement, they started me in algebra in 7th grade. I got an A in that but completely pissed off everything else, because I couldn't bring myself to give two shits when it was far more interesting to draw in my notebooks.

I'm certainly not a genius, of course, but I could understand why one would do completely awful in grade school. It can take alot more work ethic to actually do the pissant shit than to blow it off.

[Rye]

For me it was the same as Surlethe's example. In primary school my best friend and I raced ahead of everyone, especially in maths. There was a system where everyone could go at their own pace and just go up to the harder textbooks once you finished the one you were on, and you could go to the teacher when you had problems and they'd teach you how to do it. We got put in an accellerated class and did geometry and such way earlier than the rest of the kids.

When I got to secondary school, I was 3 or 4 years ahead of set 1 (the best class), so eventually I just stopped caring about the work, never did homework, grew more and more bored and eventually severely depressed and spent most of the final year getting dropped off in the morning then just walking home and sleeping. Did alright on the exams, got into sixth form, where I was fearsomely depressed, sort of fucked that up but then got into uni then stopped going.

So currently I'm just looking for a doable IT job while I throw my motivation into stuff I can manage to care about.

[Winston Blake]

If God is omnipotent, then he can be in all things and therefore eliminate evil by his very presence by being omnipresent. If he is omniscient, then he will know that this is what he has to do to get rid of evil. (It's not just a matter of knowing what to do; we know what God must do to eliminate evil in this case!) If he's omnibenevolent, then he will do this from his infinite goodness. That evil still exists means that he lacks one of these three qualities. Check and mate.

Wyrm... do you mind if I print that off to put in my billfold to show any person who wants to argue whether god is good or not?

It says "That evil still exists means that". They'd just 'refute' it by saying 'evil doesn't exist just like cold and darkness don't exist'. Honestly it's pointless. Even if you get them to admit that God created the human capacity for evil and does nothing about it, they'll still claim that it's a good thing, e.g. we're being 'tested'. Even then, the ultimate Wall of Ignorance is the 'we must consider God with the innocence of a child' argument, which is completely transparent to any and all logic. It's just pointless.

[Wyrm]

It says "That evil still exists means that". They'd just 'refute' it by saying 'evil doesn't exist just like cold and darkness don't exist'. Honestly it's pointless. Even if you get them to admit that God created the human capacity for evil and does nothing about it, they'll still claim that it's a good thing, e.g. we're being 'tested'. Even then, the ultimate Wall of Ignorance is the 'we must consider God with the innocence of a child' argument, which is completely transparent to any and all logic. It's just pointless.

Why would an omniscient Gad even need to test any of his creations? If he's omniscient, then God already knows how the test is going to resolve itself before it even begins. So why carry out the test at all? The only reason why to 'test' us is the sadistic glee of seeing the test carry itself to its (often horrible) conclusion. This is not the behavior of a innocent, cherub-like God; this is the behavior of a sadistic brat.

Also, anyone pulling the we must consider God with the innocence of a child' argument will be met with my 'if you trust a God with the innocence of a child to handle your life, then why not trust a not-so-innocent child to handle porn?' rebuttal.

[Winston Blake]

Also, anyone pulling the we must consider God with the innocence of a child' argument will be met with my 'if you trust a God with the innocence of a child to handle your life, then why not trust a not-so-innocent child to handle porn?' rebuttal.

Huh? I've never run into that one. I'm talking about being told that you should accept religious 'mysteries' with the innocence of a child, i.e. by assuming that anything that doesn't make sense actually does, it's just that you're not enlightened enough to see how.

[Wyrm]

Also, anyone pulling the we must consider God with the innocence of a child' argument will be met with my 'if you trust a God with the innocence of a child to handle your life, then why not trust a not-so-innocent child to handle porn?' rebuttal.

Huh? I've never run into that one. I'm talking about being told that you should accept religious 'mysteries' with the innocence of a child, i.e. by assuming that anything that doesn't make sense actually does, it's just that you're not enlightened enough to see how.

Oh. I guess I misparsed that one...

Then I change the way to counter it: 'we must consider God with the innocence of a child' is countered by 'I guess you believe that the bunny really did appear out of thin air from the magician's tophat, then'.

[Magus]

But then, there is that quote commonly attributed to Einstein (and outside the typical urban legend circles):

Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater.

Perhaps he did poorly in mathematics in grammar school? Alternatively, maybe he had a strong enough work ethic to pull a good grade in high school math, but still found it difficult?

[Jason]

Is it true that Einstein worked with a mathematician who proved, mathematically, all (or some/most) of his theories, because Einstein wasn't proficient with that advanced level of math? I even recall being told a name, but it escapes me. Thanks.

[Winston Blake]

But then, there is that quote commonly attributed to Einstein (and outside the typical urban legend circles):

Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater.

Perhaps he did poorly in mathematics in grammar school? Alternatively, maybe he had a strong enough work ethic to pull a good grade in high school math, but still found it difficult?

I'm pretty sure he was referring to the fact that his job was to mathematically describe gravitation and the universe at the cutting edge, rather than any difficulties in early life.

Is it true that Einstein worked with a mathematician who proved, mathematically, all (or some/most) of his theories, because Einstein wasn't proficient with that advanced level of math? I even recall being told a name, but it escapes me. Thanks.

Sounds like bullshit. Although he did have a close intellectual relationship with his wife, Mileva, with conspiracy theories that he stole the credit for Relativity from her.

[Magus]

Sounds like bullshit. Although he did have a close intellectual relationship with his wife, Mileva, with conspiracy theories that he stole the credit for Relativity from her.

Wow...people actually develop conspiracy theories about this? It's not like it really matters...we don't revere Einstein as a god or something...he's just another link in the chain, like every other scientist.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Einstein's brilliant came from the fact that he used some pretty advanced Math at that time and applied it to physical reality. He used Lorentz's coordinate transformations and also used Riemann Geometry for General Relativity.

To Lorentz's credit, the transformations Einstein's used are still called Lorentz transformations. On Einstein's math ability, it's safe to say that he's no pure mathematician. Then again, most Physicists are not Pure Mathematicians, though there were a rare few like Dirac, who incidentally was an atheist.

That said, there is a Belgian Jesuit Lemaitre who was quite well regarded, though not well publicised as one of the fathers of Big Bang theory. I believe that there was a biography of him that said that he had a disdain for those who took Genesis too literally.

[Superman]

"The idea of a personal god is quite alien to me and seems even naive..."

-Albert Einstein in a letter to Beatrice Frohlich, December 17, 1952

[drachefly]

A recent exchange in the letters of Physics Today noted that though Einstein was able to produce the content of General Relativity, he came up with mathematical derivations of very few of the consequences of the theory himself; that work was mostly left to others.

The distinction there was drawn between "mountain climbers", i.e. mathematically inclined theorists who can tackle a model and tease out the implications; and 'valley crossers' who devise entirely different models.

[PainRack]

Einstein isn't an irrefutable authority for Christian fundamentalists. At my parents' church there's a guy who rejects the Theory of Relativity because "Einstein was morally bankrupt and helped create the atom bomb."

I only wish I was making that up. The fact that the guy's vote counts just as much as mine makes me feel very empty inside.

Don't remind me of these morons........... I had ppl saying that he didn't believe that homo sapiens came from Africia, because Adam and Eve couldn't be black..........