Do "Deleted Scenes" Count as Canon?

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2002-08-01 09:01pm

This is something I have been thinking about recently. Say for example that their was a scene of the Acclamators showing off a real BDZ or thier 200 Gigaton TL's and it just happened to be a deleted scene. If it was included with other Deleted scenes as part of the DVD release would it count as Canon even though its still technically seperate from the actual movie? (ie, the deleted scene would be on the extras DVD that comes with the movie)

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-08-01 09:09pm

My thought is that it would be considered canon because we actually have the visual evidence onscreen, it just wasn't in the original release but it was filmed, there it is on screen and if we take the documentary view on canon visual evidence if you had a deleted scene of a lion attacking a zebra on your nature documentary but it wasn't shown in the original cut of the documentary, does that mean that lions don't attack zebras? (Kind of a hasty example.)

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-01 09:15pm

Its Cannon it was still flimed but could not be included though the script(Which is cannon) calls for it, it was just cut for time sake and will from all indications be on the DVD

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2002-08-01 09:25pm

You would probably consider it canon or not based upon the reasons it was deleted.

For example, there is a deleted scene in Alien that conflicts with Aliens. This scene is near the end of the film, where Ripley is making her way to the life boat. She comes across two of her crew who are "plastered" to the wall and are slowly mutating into a facehugger egg. This shows that Ridley Scott origionally envisioned the alien life cycle in a different way that what James Cameroon eventually showed on screen. I could be wrong, but I believe this deleted scene isn't available on the Alien DVD because of this conflict. But it does exist, you can find pictures of it.

Another example, in the origional Aliens, there are no sentry guns. However, in the special edition, they are shown. There isn't a single person here that would argue that the guns aren't canon. Their screen time was cut because of time constraints, not continuety problems.

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-08-01 09:40pm

There is a nasty turn to this....

If we are to accept the deleted scenes as face value as canon, then we must confront the TPM deleted scene of R2 flying. While R2 does fly, it shows a different rocket system. Essentially as the same as that talked about Alien and Aliens, and the reason why I would be hesitant to accept deleted scenes unless, say for example GL says its canon.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2002-08-01 09:52pm

We could always take the 10 year time frame skip between TPM and AOTC as sufficent time for upgrades to be made and added on.

LordChaos · Post by **LordChaos** » 2002-08-01 10:00pm

If the deleted scene is in the script or novelization, it's canon.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-08-01 10:02pm

USAF Ace wrote:You would probably consider it canon or not based upon the reasons it was deleted.

For example, there is a deleted scene in Alien that conflicts with Aliens. This scene is near the end of the film, where Ripley is making her way to the life boat. She comes across two of her crew who are "plastered" to the wall and are slowly mutating into a facehugger egg. This shows that Ridley Scott origionally envisioned the alien life cycle in a different way that what James Cameroon eventually showed on screen. I could be wrong, but I believe this deleted scene isn't available on the Alien DVD because of this conflict. But it does exist, you can find pictures of it.

Just so you know, that scene is on the DVD.

I think as long as the deleted scenes in question don't contradict anything in the film (ie, they aren't scenes that were filmed differently or have plot differences) they're canon.

So all of the deleted scenes on the E1 DVD (and the upcoming E2 DVD) are canon as they don't contradict anything in the film.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-08-01 10:02pm

I agree that any deleted footage thats in the script should be considered canon.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-08-01 10:08pm

RayCav of ASVS wrote:There is a nasty turn to this....

If we are to accept the deleted scenes as face value as canon, then we must confront the TPM deleted scene of R2 flying. While R2 does fly, it shows a different rocket system. Essentially as the same as that talked about Alien and Aliens, and the reason why I would be hesitant to accept deleted scenes unless, say for example GL says its canon.

The thing is that that specific scene was never actually finished, and isn't on the DVD, so it doesn't really count, I think.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2002-08-01 10:52pm

Are deleted scenes lower on the canon hiearchy? Anyway, if a deleted scene doesn't contradict something else in the movie, it's canon.

David · Post by **David** » 2002-08-01 11:08pm

Deleated scenes are deleated for a reason. If they sre not put in the final cut they might be neat to see, but they are not cannon.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-01 11:10pm

I think that deleted scenes are canon. Many of the ones from EPI were talked about in the book, anyway, so they would be canon, but if there is a contradiction there then I think that what is seen in the deleted shots is overrules what was written in the book.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2002-08-01 11:24pm

I'm very divided on this. On the one hand, deleted scenes can give info on the creator's original intent. However, in the rare cases that they are used, they should be considered supplemental information only, as additional evidence to support an argument for which other information exists. Beyond that, they are not part of what the creator considers the final outcome.... the latest version of the story is the "true canon".

For example, it is currently canon that Greedo shot first (unfortunately). Ten years ago, it was canon that Han shot first, but this canon was deleted in favor of the final canon. Now, if deleted scenes are ever added to the final product, they would become part of the new canon, but until that happens, they're mere curiosities.

Subnormal · Post by **Subnormal** » 2002-08-01 11:28pm

That means the Sarlacc has a big Pacman type head, and more tenacles, and at the end of ROTJ, thousands people are dancing and celebrating on Tatooine, but wasn't this planet still under imperial control?

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2002-08-02 03:52am

Nah, Tatooine really was never under Imperial "control". They just had a garrison stationed there, but it was a figurehead presence that the Hutt's tolerated.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-08-02 01:04pm

countdooku wrote:That means the Sarlacc has a big Pacman type head, and more tenacles, and at the end of ROTJ, thousands people are dancing and celebrating on Tatooine, but wasn't this planet still under imperial control?

IIRC, the people celebrating on Coruscant got smacked down by a bunch of Stormtroopers that came in shortly after. I can't remember the novel reference, though.

Lord Edam · Post by **Lord Edam** » 2002-08-02 02:30pm

IIRC, the people celebrating on Coruscant got smacked down by a bunch of Stormtroopers that came in shortly after. I can't remember the novel reference, though.

Iron Fist, p33. Castin Donn (resident of coruscant, new pilot in rogue squadron) tells Face what he was doing when he found out the emperor died - dancing around in a plaza with 100,000 other people, getting shot at by imperial stormtroopers who's weapons weren't on stun[/i]