Saruman vs. Count Dooku

[Crown]

Let's also not forget that in the DVD commentary it is stated that Gandalf isn't countering the storm but rather, urging the mountain to rest again. I.E. Sarauman didn't create the storm, he just woke the mountain with his voice. The mountain is the one who is thwarting the Fellowship. Also that explaination is the closest to tne book

[Crayz9000]

Let's also not forget that in the DVD commentary it is stated that Gandalf isn't countering the storm but rather, urging the mountain to rest again. I.E. Sarauman didn't create the storm, he just woke the mountain with his voice. The mountain is the one who is thwarting the Fellowship. Also that explaination is the closest to tne book

They should have just left Saruman out of that scene. It was completely unnecessary...

[Pcm979]

Let's also not forget that in the DVD commentary it is stated that Gandalf isn't countering the storm but rather, urging the mountain to rest again. I.E. Sarauman didn't create the storm, he just woke the mountain with his voice. The mountain is the one who is thwarting the Fellowship. Also that explaination is the closest to tne book

They should have just left Saruman out of that scene. It was completely unnecessary...

For people who'd read (and understood) the book.

[kojikun]

for shits and giggles and melted brains, who would be the dominant if saruman and dooku were to fuck twincest like? and would gandalf watch, since he IS gay?

[Pcm979]

*censored*

ARRGH! MY EYES! THE GOGGLES DO NOTHING!

[Gandalf]

One thing I noticed was that Dooku never seems to move people, just objects, Saruman throws Gandalf around a room then flies hin up to the roof.

Whats to stop Saruman from holding Dooku against a wall or something like that?, then levitating his weapon away?

[Pcm979]

One thing I noticed was that Dooku never seems to move people, just objects, Saruman throws Gandalf around a room then flies hin up to the roof.

Whats to stop Saruman from holding Dooku against a wall or something like that?, then levitating his weapon away?

He force-pushed Anakin.

[Gandalf]

Sorry, I've not seen the movie in a while, but my point retains some relevance.

[Darth Wong]

Actually, your point was completely demolished by somebody pointing out that the inability you subscribe to Dooku does not exist.

[Gandalf]

I didn't say he couldn't, I said he didn't do it much.

[Pcm979]

I didn't say he couldn't, I said he didn't do it much.

Because he didn't need to, apart from in the fight with Yoda. And that was only because Yoda had already proven supremacy.
And WTH makes you think there's a difference between throwing several a ton of rock and throwing people?

[Darth Wong]

I didn't say he couldn't, I said he didn't do it much.

No, you said he "never seems to" do it, which is basically a claim that he can't. There's a big difference between "never" and "not much".

[Morning Star]

I didn't say he couldn't, I said he didn't do it much.

No, you said he "never seems to" do it, which is basically a claim that he can't. There's a big difference between "never" and "not much".

I take it this is what the debate been about for the last page?

[Guest]

Clearing up What the Maiar can Do:

There are several factors that limit the Maiar we see in The Lord of the Rings (and the three we don't, the other Istari)

1. The longer a Maiar/Valar spends in one form, the harder it is for them to reshape themselves. This mainly applies to the Balrog, which would have been sealed under the moutains since the first wars on Middle Earth. When it was destroyed in that form, it would have been unable to reform itself. (This is what happened to Morgoth in the end, he was unable to take a new shape after he was finally overthrown)

No, Morgoth's physical body was never killed. He was simply cast out of the world into the Void outside of creation. After that, he couldn't physically and directly affect the world anymore. Same result, but not the same thing.

3. Sauron locked much of his power in the One Ring. Without it, he only has his minions to do most of the work.

Sauron still wasn't any weaker without the Ring (as long as it still existed). He was just even stronger when he wore it.

At the height of their power, the Maiar were capable of shaping themselves at will, in this state, killing them would do nothing of much use, as they could reform right behind you the next millisecond. Some of the Maiar never took corporeal form.

Never happened. Every time a balrog, for example, was killed, it was killed for good. When Morgoth was almost killed by Ungoliant, he was panicking. When Sauron was almost killed by Huan, he rather surrendered than gave up his physical form, as that would've ment eternal torment in front of Morgoth, without a body.

The only being ever capable of cheating death like that (without the aid of Mandos, the Death Vala), was Sauron himself, and even he could only do so because of the Ring.

As for the individual battle at hand, Saruman's biggest asset would be his ability to control others, through trickery and sheer force of will, The fight would never take place, as Dooku would be Chief Minion in no time flat.

True, Saruman's Voice was Force Suggestion amplified tenfold... but I'm still not sure if it's enough to simply dominate Dooku. After all, Jedi aren't exactly the most weak-willed people around, nor unfamiliar with such attacks.

And finally, about Wormtongue killing Saruman... I didn't see anyone point out that this was only after Gandalf had stripped Saruman of his Wizard status, leaving him little more than an ordinary, aged human man.