A serious futurist links to Wong's site

[Rathark]

http://www.aeiveos.com/~bradbury/Matrio ... smbly.html

In one of many essays concering the possibilities of the far future, Robert Bradbury discusses the logistics of dismantling the planet Jupiter in order to create a Dyson shell. Click on the highlighted words "gravitational binding energy", and you'll find a link to Mike's "Death Star Firepower" page.

While we're at it, does anyone think this guy's ideas (planetary dissassembly, Dyson structures, planet-sized AIs) are plausible? Personally, I find them far more plausible than Star Trek. We should have a Dyson sphere and superintelligent AIs long before we have transporters and warp drive (assuming these ever come to fruition).

[The Duchess of Zeon]

http://www.aeiveos.com/~bradbury/Matrio ... smbly.html

In one of many essays concering the possibilities of the far future, Robert Bradbury discusses the logistics of dismantling the planet Jupiter in order to create a Dyson shell. Click on the highlighted words "gravitational binding energy", and you'll find a link to Mike's "Death Star Firepower" page.

While we're at it, does anyone think this guy's ideas (planetary dissassembly, Dyson structures, planet-sized AIs) are plausible? Personally, I find them far more plausible than Star Trek. We should have a Dyson sphere and superintelligent AIs long before we have transporters and warp drive (assuming these ever come to fruition).

We'll find some way to exceed the speed of light before we achieve an engineering project on that scale, I suspect. Not that humanity won't get around to doing it: Assuming we last that long we have a great ability at Megaprojects, and we'll probably find a way to overpopulate whatever we're habiting by that time, too. But I suspect our innovation is sufficiently heavily oriented towards how the universe works, rather than the sort of brute force engineering like that, that we'll get there first. We'd need that sort of knowledge to crack a planet, anyway.

[Sea Skimmer]

I don't think a gas giant would have even a tiny fraction of the material needed for a Dyson sphere.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I don't think a gas giant would have even a tiny fraction of the material needed for a Dyson sphere.

Rather, though the actual Dyson sphere was more like a "Semi-Dyson Ring".

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

I don't think a gas giant would have even a tiny fraction of the material needed for a Dyson sphere.

I believe Mike calculated the Dyson Sphere to mass a solar mass.

[XaLEv]

I believe Mike calculated the Dyson Sphere to mass a solar mass.

That Dyson was a solid structure, and not what Dyson originally envisioned, IIRC. The original idea was a large number of smaller structures orbitting a star at the same distance. Such a structure would require alot less mass than one which is a single solid object.

[Exonerate]

Erm, isn't Jupiter mostly gas? Not much minerals to work with...

[RedImperator]

If you can build a Dyson sphere, I'd assume you could transmute hydrogen and helium to iron (and power your equipment at the same time). You still wouldn't have enough mass for a solid Dyson sphere, though.

[Enlightenment]

We should have a Dyson sphere and superintelligent AIs long before we have transporters and warp drive (assuming these ever come to fruition).

His ideas are much more plausible than the technologies of Star Trek. Trek technologies would require a complete rewrite of most physics from relativity onwards. In contrast, Dyson spheres (the swarm definition proposed by Dyson, not the unbuildable solid shell definition from Trek) and hyperintellient AIs are merely questions of engineering.

[kojikun]

Dyson spheres are pointless. Mike I believe already made note of this when he said that the only gravity from rotation would come from the equatorial regions. granted, theres plenty of surface area for solar panels, but if you can build a dyson sphere you can easilly out power the sun, I have a feeling.

A far better idea is a Niven Ringworld or Banks Orbital. The ringworld was one solar diameter in width (from edge to edge of the band) and about 1 AU in diameter giving it some 2.6e19 square miles of surface area. The earth has about 2.6e11 square miles of surface area (i believe). Ringworld is, then, equal to ten MILLION earths. The earth is less then 1% covered by human constructions, so ringworld can hold a phenomenal number of people.

[Eleas]

If you can build a Dyson sphere, I'd assume you could transmute hydrogen and helium to iron (and power your equipment at the same time). You still wouldn't have enough mass for a solid Dyson sphere, though.

I see no problem physics wise in performing that operation. After all, the default lowest energy state (bar matter-antimatter annihilation) would seem to be iron.

[Howedar]

A far better idea is a Niven Ringworld or Banks Orbital. The ringworld was one solar diameter in width (from edge to edge of the band) and about 1 AU in diameter giving it some 2.6e19 square miles of surface area. The earth has about 2.6e11 square miles of surface area (i believe). Ringworld is, then, equal to ten MILLION earths. The earth is less then 1% covered by human constructions, so ringworld can hold a phenomenal number of people.

Width is 997,000 miles, for a survace area of 6e14 square miles. The Ringworld Engineers, page 355

[Enlightenment]

Dyson spheres are pointless. Mike I believe already made note of this when he said that the only gravity from rotation would come from the equatorial regions. granted, theres plenty of surface area for solar panels, but if you can build a dyson sphere you can easilly out power the sun, I have a feeling.

Solid Dyson spheres are an SF brainbug and are very much unbuildable under the laws of physics as we know them. Freeman Dyson's original concept, however, was not for a solid shell but rather for a very large swarm of independantly orbiting collectors--worldlets--packed densely enough to capture a majority of the star's radiated energy.

It's not possible to out-power the sun over the long term without finding either a power source more energetic than fusion (antimatter will not work--think about it) and/or a supply of hydrogen larger than the sun.

See the Dyson sphere FAQ for more details.

[Pablo Sanchez]

We'll find some way to exceed the speed of light before we achieve an engineering project on that scale, I suspect.

Assuming that such a thing is even possible.

[Coyote]

It was never to clear to me why anyone would want a Dyson sphere in the first place-- is there supposed to be some great advantage to them, beyond collecting 100% of the sun's energy? What could someone do with that much energy?

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Dyson spheres are pointless. Mike I believe already made note of this when he said that the only gravity from rotation would come from the equatorial regions. granted, theres plenty of surface area for solar panels, but if you can build a dyson sphere you can easilly out power the sun, I have a feeling.

A far better idea is a Niven Ringworld or Banks Orbital. The ringworld was one solar diameter in width (from edge to edge of the band) and about 1 AU in diameter giving it some 2.6e19 square miles of surface area. The earth has about 2.6e11 square miles of surface area (i believe). Ringworld is, then, equal to ten MILLION earths. The earth is less then 1% covered by human constructions, so ringworld can hold a phenomenal number of people. :)

Unfortunately, both structures are also SF brain-bugs. Granted it's not the giant cerebrum-muncher that is the Dyson Sphere, more like a modest (more like fairly large) irritation wrapped about the medulla. Both structures require incredible amounts of material, and material with astonishing tensile strength. A Dyson swarm is a much better idea than any solid structure. And it's actually doable with materials that don't violate physical principles.

[Enlightenment]

What could someone do with that much energy?

The answer is as unforseeable to us now as the use for 1GB of RAM would be to someone who had only ever used a computer with 1KB.

640K is not enough for anybody.

[Coyote]

I suppose "If you build it... they will find a way to waste the power"... Probably uber-video games, the way the tech is being pushed now...

[russellb6666]

It was never to clear to me why anyone would want a Dyson sphere in the first place-- is there supposed to be some great advantage to them, beyond collecting 100% of the sun's energy? What could someone do with that much energy?

Make some really good marshmellows i expect

[XaLEv]

It was never to clear to me why anyone would want a Dyson sphere in the first place-- is there supposed to be some great advantage to them, beyond collecting 100% of the sun's energy? What could someone do with that much energy?

You could mess with the aliens; They'd see the relevant star's brightness drop in the visual wavelengths but rise in infrared. They'd be all like, "WTF?"