darkside question: If you could live in a barbaric era?

Pelranius · Post by **Pelranius** » 2006-11-20 07:50pm

A unqualified No.

It'd be a little more helpful if the OP told us exactly what social station I would be getting.

wilfulton · Post by **wilfulton** » 2006-11-20 10:17pm

The middle ages as it was romanticised? Certainly I would. The gleaming white castles, knights in shiny armor, and cobblestoned streets would be a wonderful place to live, along with the clean air, free of pollution, and food that doesn't give you cancer because of all the preservatives they put in it.

The middle ages as it was really? When you consider that the indoor john consists of a bucket, and "flushing" consists of hurling its contents out the window into the street, and you didn't live long enough for cancer to ever become a concern, and those knights in shining armor smelled as bad as the bottom of that same bucket, you couldn't maroon me on that same planet.

(heh, and with all the filth that armor constantly came in contact with...how do you suppose they kept it shiny?...)

Short answer, no.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2006-11-20 11:23pm

wilfulton wrote:The middle ages as it was romanticised? Certainly I would. The gleaming white castles, knights in shiny armor, and cobblestoned streets would be a wonderful place to live, along with the clean air, free of pollution, and food that doesn't give you cancer because of all the preservatives they put in it.

The middle ages as it was really? When you consider that the indoor john consists of a bucket, and "flushing" consists of hurling its contents out the window into the street, and you didn't live long enough for cancer to ever become a concern, and those knights in shining armor smelled as bad as the bottom of that same bucket, you couldn't maroon me on that same planet.

(heh, and with all the filth that armor constantly came in contact with...how do you suppose they kept it shiny?...)

Short answer, no.

This little surmise —and the whole SCA fantasy ethos— was once viciously parodied in an episode of Mystery Science Theatre 3000 more than a decade ago during a link sketch when Joel, Crow, and Gypsy pretended to be knights and ladies and a king of court while Tom Servo appeared in the guise of a serf: "I was 90% of the population back in the Middle Ages" and went on to detail the nasty, brutish, and short lives of the peasantry. I think it was during the show featuring The Magic Sword.

Sorry, but I'd never want to live in the Dark Ages. It's so-called attractions hold no sway for me.

ray245 · Post by **ray245** » 2006-11-21 09:56am

Just a question. Is there any civilization that's no heavily affected by the dark age? How about ancient china? I can't remember which dynasty it is in, but ancient china is often considered civilized compared to europe during that era? Am I right?

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2006-11-21 10:23am

Count Dooku wrote:If I had the choice? No. But if I had to pick somewhere and some time to live, it would probably be during the Roman Republic's hieght, or if I were a little more ambitious, I'd go with Sparta, during it's golden age. I also wouldn't mind being an Athenian - there's just something so appealing about living somewhere, like Athens during it's own golden age, where real democracy is considered to be one of the crowning acheivements of humanity, and what you say and do actually makes a difference in your community. I'd still much rather live now, though...

Why the hell would you choose Sparta?

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2006-11-21 11:03am

ray245 wrote:Just a question. Is there any civilization that's no heavily affected by the dark age? How about ancient china? I can't remember which dynasty it is in, but ancient china is often considered civilized compared to europe during that era? Am I right?

China was isolated enough that they weren't really affected the same way Europe was, but if you're not Chinese or Asian, well, you're going to stick out like a sore thumb.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2006-11-21 06:05pm

Well since I'm Indian, I couldn't possibly survive in Europe, so Medieval India would be my only option. Which is slightly better, as I'm quite sure we bathed more than the Europeans.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2006-11-21 09:39pm

No! Classical Rome? Maybe. But Medieval Europe? No fucking way. It would be like California, interesting to visit but I don't want to live there.

wilfulton · Post by **wilfulton** » 2006-11-22 12:18am

Patrick Degan wrote:

This little surmise —and the whole SCA fantasy ethos— was once viciously parodied in an episode of Mystery Science Theatre 3000 more than a decade ago during a link sketch when Joel, Crow, and Gypsy pretended to be knights and ladies and a king of court while Tom Servo appeared in the guise of a serf: "I was 90% of the population back in the Middle Ages" and went on to detail the nasty, brutish, and short lives of the peasantry. I think it was during the show featuring The Magic Sword.

I love MST3K! Is that what the episode is called, because I haven't seen that one. Joel was my favorite character anyway, but I most admire how he keeps his sanity up there on the SOL.

More on topic, I don't think any sane person would really want to live in the middle ages, knowing how they were really. There is, after all a reason why it has crept into the vernacular that whenever you see something you find particularly distasteful, you say "what the hell is this, the middle ages?"

And it was also referred to as the "Dark Ages" for a reason. I really think Mike put it best. We really are lucky bastards.

Well, actually, I do know who my father is

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2006-11-22 12:25pm

PeZook wrote: cally. Similarily important would be the place you get to live in. DEATH mentioned attitutes towards Jews - it wasn't nearly as bad, since Jews performed a major, important role in Medieval society ever since the Church forbid lending money - There was tension, but it's just untrue that Jews were regularly murdered and raped and whatnot. Location would be crucial here: the Eastern Roman Empire, for example, was pretty tolerant of religious minorities, as was Poland (only in the later periods, though).

I know how important jews were for the medieval economy, this didn't stop the various "Lenders" from organizing progroms in order to "Remove" the debt holders, or for various armies on their way to the crusades to slaughter any of the jews in their way.

Thanas · Post by **Thanas** » 2006-11-22 07:32pm

General Zod wrote:
ray245 wrote:Just a question. Is there any civilization that's no heavily affected by the dark age? How about ancient china? I can't remember which dynasty it is in, but ancient china is often considered civilized compared to europe during that era? Am I right?
China was isolated enough that they weren't really affected the same way Europe was, but if you're not Chinese or Asian, well, you're going to stick out like a sore thumb.

Don't forget the byzantine empire. If you lived in Constantinople, you might be able to live in a civilized city during the dark ages, which was never taken during that period.

So yes, living in Constantinople would be swell, especially since it is a place where you could put the technology to use without turning into a dictator/fascist/thug etc.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2006-11-23 02:39am

DEATH wrote: I know how important jews were for the medieval economy, this didn't stop the various "Lenders" from organizing progroms in order to "Remove" the debt holders, or for various armies on their way to the crusades to slaughter any of the jews in their way.

Which is why you'd want to live in Poland around the XIV-XV century. You'd enjoy personal protection from the King, a large degree of autonomy in Jewish communities, and all crusading armies full of fanatics would pass far to the south.

Of course, that is if you had to choose where to live in the middle ages. I am not trying to argue that the period was all nice and peachy and civilized and can't blame anyone for not wanting to live back then

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2006-11-23 05:29am

If I was going back 'SDN goes to Middle Earth' style with guns, machine tools, books and a bunch of people for backup I'd gladly go. Uplift ahoy. But if I was just gonna go and be all "Look at the lovely muck" ala the peasants out of the holy grail, then It'd have to be a resounding "FUCK NO!".

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2006-11-23 08:51am

Thanas wrote:
General Zod wrote:
ray245 wrote:Just a question. Is there any civilization that's no heavily affected by the dark age? How about ancient china? I can't remember which dynasty it is in, but ancient china is often considered civilized compared to europe during that era? Am I right?
China was isolated enough that they weren't really affected the same way Europe was, but if you're not Chinese or Asian, well, you're going to stick out like a sore thumb.
Don't forget the byzantine empire. If you lived in Constantinople, you might be able to live in a civilized city during the dark ages, which was never taken during that period.

So yes, living in Constantinople would be swell, especially since it is a place where you could put the technology to use without turning into a dictator/fascist/thug etc.

I'd never thought of that. Still, there'd be no travel, few good books, and I can't speak Greek. Still, I could probably uplift them far enough to hand the Turks their asses. Tempting, certainlt.

Ypoknons · Post by **Ypoknons** » 2006-11-23 01:53pm

Living at the height of the Roman Republic could be fun too, with Senate roof tiles being thrown around, bloodthirsty mobs etc... etc... Seriously, political process aside, quality of life was probably higher in the early Imperial era, and they had bigger baths, some peace and quiet in Rome when succession wasn't a problem etc...

Gunface · Post by **Gunface** » 2006-11-23 03:06pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote:would you?

say that civilization isn't nearly up to stuff, it's the classical period, or the dark ages, and your alive. and since slavery and waring states is rampant your best chance of survival is at someone else's expense.

Never. I wouldn't want to live in any time but this one. I don't know how I'd survive. I don't know what it'll be like in the future, and I know too much about what it was like in the past.
There's no way I could survive in any time in the past, save for maybe 50 years back. Before that there's world wars and depressions and other such things.

I think that often, the bad parts of ancient life are severely glossed over. Sure, there's culture galore, but in the majority of civilizations, you'd be far too busy scrounging for food (or perhaps farming for the lord) to really appreciate anything. Even if you happened to not be working all the time, you'd spend your spare time sleeping, and you'd likely not be able to read.

Even times like a couple hundred years ago were amazingly rough. Anyway, no.

I'm quite content to be.. here. I wouldn't want to risk my safety here for whatever it was like in the past.

Thanas · Post by **Thanas** » 2006-11-23 04:13pm

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba wrote:
Thanas wrote: Don't forget the byzantine empire. If you lived in Constantinople, you might be able to live in a civilized city during the dark ages, which was never taken during that period.

So yes, living in Constantinople would be swell, especially since it is a place where you could put the technology to use without turning into a dictator/fascist/thug etc.
I'd never thought of that. Still, there'd be no travel, few good books, and I can't speak Greek. Still, I could probably uplift them far enough to hand the Turks their asses. Tempting, certainlt.

Actually, you would have access to most of the lost books of that period...there would be tons of great books to read. The huge libraries...historians today would gladly donate a body part to get a peek at them. No fragmenting western monks, and original writings of such great writers as Ammianus Marcellinus, Arrian etc....more than worth it.

And as for culture and travel....Travel would be worthless anyway - where would you go?

SWPIGWANG · Post by **SWPIGWANG** » 2006-11-23 04:19pm

It depends on greatly, WHO I AM when I'm placed there.

If I'm picked up from my current life and randomly inserted into the past, no, no way. It would have been horrible to do on any time period (including the future) to begin with, unless it is being put into somewhere ridiciously utopian.

Now the question is different if I was born into it, with family, support and the rest while growing up. Then it would be the question of whether I am safe in my status and do I have the power to ensure a resonable standard of living and to effect the things I (would) care about in a sistuation like that.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

darkside question: If you could live in a barbaric era?

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