Marko Dash wrote:On the issue of the SD's 'firing solutions', can't a modern aegis cruiser keep track of a few hundred possible targets at once? Surely an ISD can keep a lock on at least this many?
Easily.
But why assume they have to be tracked by a single computer? Even if we uber-generously assume a targetting computer can only track, say, a dozen targets, why assume one targetting computer? IIRC, most turbolaser emplacements are self-contained, for maximum durability. Even have a small power supply, I think. So it'd be each gun emplacement able to track that many targets, and many, many gun emplacements.
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SirNitram wrote:But why assume they have to be tracked by a single computer? Even if we uber-generously assume a targetting computer can only track, say, a dozen targets, why assume one targetting computer?
Because thats the way its done on Trek and every good Trektard knows every other sci-fi series does things exactly the same way they are done on Trek but less powerful, effective, etc.
"everytime a person is born the Earth weighs just a little more."--DMJ on StarTrek.com
"You see now you are using your thinking and that is not a good thing!" DMJay on StarTrek.com
"Watching Sarli argue with Vympel, Stas, Schatten and the others is as bizarre as the idea of the 40-year-old Virgin telling Hugh Hefner that Hef knows nothing about pussy, and that he is the expert."--Elfdart
But why assume they have to be tracked by a single computer? Even if we uber-generously assume a targetting computer can only track, say, a dozen targets, why assume one targetting computer? IIRC, most turbolaser emplacements are self-contained, for maximum durability. Even have a small power supply, I think. So it'd be each gun emplacement able to track that many targets, and many, many gun emplacements.
But, but, the Computer is, The Computer! Trust The Computer, The Computer is your friend; 2 + 2 = 3.999999999999999999, doubleplus good!
Do you think the Orwell style state of the Federation would allow Star Fleet (or anyone else) to have non centralized computation or communications?
The interesting thing is that this has never occured to Trekkies.
But why assume they have to be tracked by a single computer? Even if we uber-generously assume a targetting computer can only track, say, a dozen targets, why assume one targetting computer? IIRC, most turbolaser emplacements are self-contained, for maximum durability. Even have a small power supply, I think. So it'd be each gun emplacement able to track that many targets, and many, many gun emplacements.
But, but, the Computer is, The Computer! Trust The Computer, The Computer is your friend; 2 + 2 = 3.999999999999999999, doubleplus good!
Do you think the Orwell style state of the Federation would allow Star Fleet (or anyone else) to have non centralized computation or communications?
The interesting thing is that this has never occured to Trekkies.
Quite interesting; most probably it's due to the Trekky's mindless love of the Federation. Personally, I'd feel that any space-faring society which has been so for more than 3-400 years would have built a computer/comm system with double redundancy at least, if not actual de-centralization in case of war.
Another interesting possibility is that Feds don't expect to need decentralization. Decentralization and redundancy are useful when enemy forces have destroyed the first section, and if the ship is destroyed altogether by a warp-core exploding, rather than just disabled by enemy fire, decentralization is worthless. Never give up the ship!
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SirNitram wrote:But why assume they have to be tracked by a single computer? Even if we uber-generously assume a targetting computer can only track, say, a dozen targets, why assume one targetting computer?
Because thats the way its done on Trek and every good Trektard knows every other sci-fi series does things exactly the same way they are done on Trek but less powerful, effective, etc.
Good point.
We know from ANH that there is a gun crew for even the light guns, and local control since the officer told the crew to 'hold your fire' on the escape pod.
Later we see even an even simpler gun crew on guns aboard the DS. Why assume a 'one computer' targeting system for all those guns?
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
I feel that a space-faring society should have Combined Arms tactics, not to mention basic combat tactics and strategies, as well as MGs, combat vehicles, and a navy with dedicated warships.
Darth Servo wrote:
Because thats the way its done on Trek and every good Trektard knows every other sci-fi series does things exactly the same way they are done on Trek but less powerful, effective, etc.
Good point.
We know from ANH that there is a gun crew for even the light guns, and local control since the officer told the crew to 'hold your fire' on the escape pod.
Later we see even an even simpler gun crew on guns aboard the DS. Why assume a 'one computer' targeting system for all those guns?
Because thats the way its done on Trek and every good Trektard knows every other sci-fi series does things exactly the same way
Seriously, I believe that's it. In TNG+ Trek everything is connected to everything else and controlled by a central facility, and hardcore Trektards really don't see how it can be done any other way, the fact that is HAS been done in the real world notwithstanding.
The presence of gun crews on Wars weapons is obviously proof of the backwardsness of Wars technology, it has nothing to do with those guns being able to operate independently.
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'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
I think I was involved in both these debates at one point.. or at least the Retribution one. Though watching all the 40K fans dogpile onto the lone idiot was only funny for so long and I eventually just quit bothering and let people with more patience continue the struggle. Some of the conclusions he tried to come up with in there were just plain goofy.
Oh and just for 'nostalgia'.. does it count as nostalgia? I haven't seen this oldie crop up in a long time:
Several orders of magnitude above their own? Thats debatable considering that the Empire has ships that uses switches and levers rather than the advance interfaces we see in ST.
SylasGaunt wrote:Oh and just for 'nostalgia'.. does it count as nostalgia? I haven't seen this oldie crop up in a long time:
Several orders of magnitude above their own? Thats debatable considering that the Empire has ships that uses switches and levers rather than the advance interfaces we see in ST.
What kind of imbecile assumes that a switch on a control panel is actually a lever, which would mean that is connected with a mechanical linkage to the actual equipment being controlled? Does he think that the buttons on a wireless mouse are levers too, by virtue of physically moving when you push them?
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
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If SW vehicles are lever-operated, then the pilots and crews must have ridiculously powerful arms. Two AT-AT drivers moving their walker with one hand each? I doubt the Incredible Hulk could do that! This should put to rest any of the hand-to-hand combat scenarios.
Trektards must also have tremendous strength in their wrists...
SylasGaunt wrote:Oh and just for 'nostalgia'.. does it count as nostalgia? I haven't seen this oldie crop up in a long time:
Several orders of magnitude above their own? Thats debatable considering that the Empire has ships that uses switches and levers rather than the advance interfaces we see in ST.
What kind of imbecile assumes that a switch on a control panel is actually a lever, which would mean that is connected with a mechanical linkage to the actual equipment being controlled? Does he think that the buttons on a wireless mouse are levers too, by virtue of physically moving when you push them?
SB does seem to be having a rather depressing upswing in moron noobs and/or retarded posts lately.
Elfdart wrote:I liked the one where the asshole claims the Borg can "adapt" to getting clubbed in the head.
Thats the standard "the Borg can adapt to anything" bullshit.
"everytime a person is born the Earth weighs just a little more."--DMJ on StarTrek.com
"You see now you are using your thinking and that is not a good thing!" DMJay on StarTrek.com
"Watching Sarli argue with Vympel, Stas, Schatten and the others is as bizarre as the idea of the 40-year-old Virgin telling Hugh Hefner that Hef knows nothing about pussy, and that he is the expert."--Elfdart
I liked the part where Necronlord pointed out that the stormtroopers could dump their blasters and beat the borg to death with the plumbing and still win.
SylasGaunt wrote:Oh and just for 'nostalgia'.. does it count as nostalgia? I haven't seen this oldie crop up in a long time:
What kind of imbecile assumes that a switch on a control panel is actually a lever, which would mean that is connected with a mechanical linkage to the actual equipment being controlled? Does he think that the buttons on a wireless mouse are levers too, by virtue of physically moving when you push them?
SB does seem to be having a rather depressing upswing in moron noobs and/or retarded posts lately.
Noticed that to, sad for a while I thought it was getting better for a while. I'm begining to get pissed off by mith's one sided threads, I don't know how long it is before it's "clone trooper with a toothpick vs borg collective".
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but the sun is eclipsed by the moon." - eclipse, Pink Floyd.
This reminds me of an argument I had with someone over at the ST.com boards. I don't remember who it was, though. (I want to say "DMJ," and this does sound like something he'd say, but I just can't recall.) Anyway, it tried proving that Wars technology was at the most on par with Federation technology and at the least inferior. How did he "prove" this? Well, remember how people say that the Millenium Falcon helped in the fight with the Borg cube in FC? Well, this guys says, "If the Falcon was there, and it wasn't having any more luck against the cube than all the Fed ships, then obviously Wars technology isn't better than Fed technology."
Darth Judas wrote:This reminds me of an argument I had with someone over at the ST.com boards. I don't remember who it was, though. (I want to say "DMJ," and this does sound like something he'd say, but I just can't recall.) Anyway, it tried proving that Wars technology was at the most on par with Federation technology and at the least inferior. How did he "prove" this? Well, remember how people say that the Millenium Falcon helped in the fight with the Borg cube in FC? Well, this guys says, "If the Falcon was there, and it wasn't having any more luck against the cube than all the Fed ships, then obviously Wars technology isn't better than Fed technology."
Um, okay... Riiight...
Probably not DMJ. That idiot isn't that creative. Most of the time he can't get past the "no laser" crap.
"everytime a person is born the Earth weighs just a little more."--DMJ on StarTrek.com
"You see now you are using your thinking and that is not a good thing!" DMJay on StarTrek.com
"Watching Sarli argue with Vympel, Stas, Schatten and the others is as bizarre as the idea of the 40-year-old Virgin telling Hugh Hefner that Hef knows nothing about pussy, and that he is the expert."--Elfdart
Darth Judas wrote:This reminds me of an argument I had with someone over at the ST.com boards. I don't remember who it was, though. (I want to say "DMJ," and this does sound like something he'd say, but I just can't recall.) Anyway, it tried proving that Wars technology was at the most on par with Federation technology and at the least inferior. How did he "prove" this? Well, remember how people say that the Millenium Falcon helped in the fight with the Borg cube in FC? Well, this guys says, "If the Falcon was there, and it wasn't having any more luck against the cube than all the Fed ships, then obviously Wars technology isn't better than Fed technology."
Um, okay... Riiight...
Probably not DMJ. That idiot isn't that creative. Most of the time he can't get past the "no laser" crap.
Eh, he could've ripped it from someone else. Oh, well, no matter who said it, it's one of the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
SylasGaunt wrote:Oh and just for 'nostalgia'.. does it count as nostalgia? I haven't seen this oldie crop up in a long time:
Several orders of magnitude above their own? Thats debatable considering that the Empire has ships that uses switches and levers rather than the advance interfaces we see in ST.
heh, that guy obviously never read the Lensman series. I wonder what he'd call the firing operation of a primary beam
Darth Judas wrote:This reminds me of an argument I had with someone over at the ST.com boards. I don't remember who it was, though. (I want to say "DMJ," and this does sound like something he'd say, but I just can't recall.) Anyway, it tried proving that Wars technology was at the most on par with Federation technology and at the least inferior. How did he "prove" this? Well, remember how people say that the Millenium Falcon helped in the fight with the Borg cube in FC? Well, this guys says, "If the Falcon was there, and it wasn't having any more luck against the cube than all the Fed ships, then obviously Wars technology isn't better than Fed technology."
Um, okay... Riiight...
Probably not DMJ. That idiot isn't that creative. Most of the time he can't get past the "no laser" crap.
Eh, he could've ripped it from someone else. Oh, well, no matter who said it, it's one of the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
I read somewhere that a CG model of the MF was supposedly there at Sector 001, but I can't find it on FC (A bit of trivia for those who don't already know, the reason that the Norway Class of ship only appears in FC is because they lost the CG model of the Norway, supposedly).
As for the Borg 'adapting' to being clubbed, maybe they're thinking of FC where some redshirt clubs a drone in the chest with the butt of his rifle, to no effect and then the drone sends him crashing into the wall. In which case the Borg have 'adapted' as much as they need to. They'd need to put stronger plating around the drone's head or something to 'adapt'.
I remember that dumbshit argument. He hits the guy in the chest rather than the head so he doesn't go down, and the idiot Trekkies say "Aha! They Borg drone adapted, because he didn't go down from a hit to the chest while the previous guy went down from a rifle-butt to the face!" It's really pathetic what that crowd considers to be a logical argument.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
To be fair, only Worf and Data could fight the Borg hand to hand, and even they found it tough going at times.
The only case I recall of the Borg adapting to anything other than energy weapons was in 'Drone', but of course, that was a 29th century Borg Drone. Why the Voyager crew didnt analyse the advanced Borg tech when they retrieved the Doctor's mobile emitter from the drone after he was killed is just plain stupid.
Darth Judas wrote:This reminds me of an argument I had with someone over at the ST.com boards. I don't remember who it was, though. (I want to say "DMJ," and this does sound like something he'd say, but I just can't recall.) Anyway, it tried proving that Wars technology was at the most on par with Federation technology and at the least inferior. How did he "prove" this? Well, remember how people say that the Millenium Falcon helped in the fight with the Borg cube in FC? Well, this guys says, "If the Falcon was there, and it wasn't having any more luck against the cube than all the Fed ships, then obviously Wars technology isn't better than Fed technology."
Um, okay... Riiight...
Big Hairy Mountain Pussy tried that one over at Darkstar's site.
