How similar are Islam and Christianity?

[ArmorPierce]

I mean besides running and blowing themselves up in Israeli restaurants in modern day which isn't exactly preying on them since they are in a weaker position.

[Big Orange]

I mean besides running and blowing themselves up in Israeli restaurants in modern day which isn't exactly preying on them since they are in a weaker position.

Well if blowing up women, children and elderly in a public space is not preying on them, then what is? It's true the Palestinians and neighbouring Arab states are mostly Israel's bitch and subjected to very ruthless reprisals, but when there are over one billion Muslims vs. less than twenty million Jews, then lets see who's in the weaker position in the long run (although the majority of the Muslim world has a highly intricate political and social landscape anyway).

And during the so-called "good ole' days" Jews living in Muslim dominated communities where classed as "Dhimmi", were regulated to second class citizes and were forced to pay a Muslim protection racket (although Christians were subjugated in the same manner as well).

But I don't what's worse - having a pompous, racist family next door that hold disgusting views on you, but mostly keep themselves to themselves and don't commit real trouble, or living next to a wild street clan that also hold similarly disgusting views on you, but also want to "convert" you into their fold and subject to you a protection racket at best or outright kill you at worst, if you refuse.

[Rye]

When has Islam preyed on Judaism?

Since it began, really. Much of the time it's been "oh, you can't wear what rich people wear" and the shit Big Orange referenced, though I'm pretty sure (though I'm just working on something I was told a while ago) both sides slaughtered civilian populations of jews during the Crusades. During World War 2, of course, there was a lot of alliances between islamic regimes and the axis; this is probably a big part of the antisemitism in the muslim world currently, not just israel and the zionists controlling the world as they often paint it.

[Big Orange]

During World War 2, of course, there was a lot of alliances between islamic regimes and the axis; this is probably a big part of the antisemitism in the muslim world currently, not just israel and the zionists controlling the world as they often paint it.

Isn't that an oxymoron? Anti-Semitic Semitic Arabs? I do not deny the intense religious bigotry involved and the violent Arab nationalism directed against Europeans colonials like the British Imperials or European Zionists during WWII, but is labelling a essentially Semitic populace "anti-Semitic" a big paradox in word usage? Do people fail to see the ironic absurdity?!

[ArmorPierce]

both sides slaughtered civilian populations of jews during the Crusades.

While I acknowledge that there is much killing today because of it, from what I've read, muslims and jews lived more or less peacefully besides isolated incidences up at the time of the Crusades. I couldn't find anything that said the contrary.

From what I've read, in Muslim lands, besides paying the taxes levied on them and Christians, Jews were pretty much left alone. In fact, Jews fled to Muslim held lands in order to flee the persecution that they were receiving by Christians. So I think that Jews co-existed with Muslims much better than they did with Christians.

[ArmorPierce]

Isn't that an oxymoron? Anti-Semitic Semitic Arabs? I do not deny the intense religious bigotry involved and the violent Arab nationalism directed against Europeans colonials like the British Imperials or European Zionists during WWII, but is labelling a essentially Semitic populace "anti-Semitic" a big paradox in word usage? Do people fail to see the ironic absurdity?!

The funny part is that the Arabs are probably far more semitic than most Jews are.

[Rye]

During World War 2, of course, there was a lot of alliances between islamic regimes and the axis; this is probably a big part of the antisemitism in the muslim world currently, not just israel and the zionists controlling the world as they often paint it.

Isn't that an oxymoron? Anti-Semitic Semitic Arabs?

No, since "antisemitic" means "antijewish" in that context, not "anti anyone descended from peoples that were part of the semitic language group of the past."

Do people fail to see the ironic absurdity?!

No, the definition of antisemitic applies specifically to jews, it is both understood to mean that in the vernacular and was coined to that end.

[Big Orange]

No, since "antisemitic" means "antijewish" in that context, not "anti anyone descended from peoples that were part of the semitic language group of the past."

Then that demonstrates clearly that the term "anti-Semite" is a brainbug at best and deliberate political doublespeak at worst. Especially if you take into account that most modern Arabs are fully Semitic and most modern Jews are fully Indo-European. And it gets even better when Jews who had converted into Islam or Christianity are also labelled "anti-Semites" if they persecuted Jews. The bottom line is that "anti-Semite" is a brainbug term with very little internal logic in terms of it's actual meaning and has it's roots in proto-Nazism during the 19th century (and Nazi ideology made very little sense anyway).

[Big Orange]

GHETTO EDIT: Can a mod kindly fix my and ArmorPierce's quote tags, thank you.

[Bronx]

Islam and Christianity are just ripoffs of Judaism.

[wolveraptor]

Islam and Christianity are just ripoffs of Judaism.

That's an overly simplistic explanation. Christianity and Islam absorbed much from the beliefs of the surrounding population. For example, modern Islam has more to do with Bedouin tribal customs than Jewish beliefs, and mainstream Christianity is more the brainchild of Paul than Jesus.

[Big Orange]

That's an overly simplistic explanation. Christianity and Islam absorbed much from the beliefs of the surrounding population. For example, modern Islam has more to do with Bedouin tribal customs than Jewish beliefs, and mainstream Christianity is more the brainchild of Paul than Jesus.

Yeah, Saul may have done a few ground up "improvements" with Jesus' main thesis on his version Judaism, like editing out the overt Jewish chauvinism that Rye sometimes insinuates at and making it easier to swallow for "the masses" (and Greek writers were also involved with writing up on the Bible, centuries after Jesus' death).

Also again: Can a mod kindly fix my and ArmorPierce's quote tags, thank you.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Islam and Christianity are just ripoffs of Judaism.

That's an overly simplistic explanation. Christianity and Islam absorbed much from the beliefs of the surrounding population. For example, modern Islam has more to do with Bedouin tribal customs than Jewish beliefs, and mainstream Christianity is more the brainchild of Paul than Jesus.

It may be overly simplistic, but it does hold a great deal of truth. Mohammed learned a great deal about Judaism from rabbis in the area, and had a great deal of respect for the Jews and Judaism. He also picked up fragments of Christianity, mostly from Syrian and Coptic sources which had achieved widespread dispersion into the Arab world at the time he lived. He borrowed extensively from the Torah when formulating early Islam (but not very well, since he got a lot of his timelines, people, and details mixed up. For example, the Qu'ran states that Noah was 950 years old at the time of the Deluge, when Pentateuch states that 950 years was the length of Noah's entire lifetime.) He even borrowed Hebrew and Aramaic vocabulary in writing the Qu'ran, since his native Arabic lacked adequate words for describing the Jewish and Christian concepts found in Islam.

However, he did synthesize this with the Arab superstitions and mythology of the time. Allah was one of a number of local gods, and the account of being dictated to by the Archangel Gabriel closely parallels tales of men interacting with the djinn (spirits, malevolent and otherwise that made up a significant part of the local Arab beliefs. In fact djinn were adopted into Islam.)

[Rye]

However, he did synthesize this with the Arab superstitions and mythology of the time. Allah was one of a number of local gods

No and yes, it was just the arabic way of saying "the God," the preislamic "Allah" in the meccan area was not the one portrayed in the Quran. Islam's Allah didn't descend from the preislamic Allah, he was a reiteration of the judeo-christian god, and it's a popular myth amongst evangelical christians that Allah is a different deity based on Meccan Allah, but they're really pretty different apart from their names which are general anyway ("the god").

[Big Orange]

It may be overly simplistic, but it does hold a great deal of truth. Mohammed learned a great deal about Judaism from rabbis in the area, and had a great deal of respect for the Jews and Judaism.

Then how did that lead to the oxymoron of anti-Semitic Arabs? Why did the Islamic world's boderline Nazi disdain for Judaism in the last seven decades occur? Maybe Muslim Arabs treated Jews relatively benignly in comparison to more traditional anti-Semites like Christian Europeans, but there is hard evidence of Jews being essentially second class citizens in Muslim communities and occasional pogroms occuring (many Israeli Jews fled from Muslim countries when the foundation of Israel made Jewish-Muslim relations more sour).

I get the impression that Abrahamic religions always need permanent enemies to keep themselves more cohesive.

[Darth Wong]

One can incorporate Jewish ideas without necessarily being nice to Jews. Western nations often pride ourselves on our "Judeo-Christian" heritage, but there's historically been no shortage of anti-Semitism here.

[Big Orange]

Well Abrahamic religions are not driven by real logic anyway and appeal to domination. And I still the find the notion of labelling Semitic Arabs as "anti-Semites" to be hilarious.