Medieval 2 Battle Report & Strat Thread (Super pic hvy)

Lonestar · Post by **Lonestar** » 2006-11-26 07:21pm

InnocentBystander wrote:I don't think Venice gets longbowmen. I think they get Venian Archers.

Did everyone on the planet decide to play Britian....?

HRE FTW

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2006-11-26 07:23pm

InnocentBystander wrote:I don't think Venice gets longbowmen. I think they get Venian Archers.

Did everyone on the planet decide to play Britian....?

Don't worry, other nations do get archers with stakes as well. You just need to get yourself some better bowmen

NRS Guardian · Post by **NRS Guardian** » 2006-11-26 07:27pm

In RTW if you exited the battle with no enemies inside the city and without any active seige engines or artillery you could gain a draw or even a victory if you destroyed most of the enemy without very many casualties. Afterall if the enemy can't get inside the city they can't really be expected to win.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2006-11-26 07:36pm

What if the gates were already broken through?

GuppyShark · Post by **GuppyShark** » 2006-11-26 08:15pm

InnocentBystander wrote:I don't think Venice gets longbowmen. I think they get Venian Archers.

Did everyone on the planet decide to play Britian....?

Santiago y cierra España!

Spain is another faction that doesn't have longbowmen.

NRS Guardian · Post by **NRS Guardian** » 2006-11-26 10:20pm

InnocentBystander wrote:What if the gates were already broken through?

I don't know. You could always try it, the worst that would happen is having to reload the game. If these are reinforcements the game will probably call it a draw leaving the city in your hands. Afterall if the game can see the AI has no intention of attacking during the battle it probably won't penalize you.
I found this out while playing the Egyptians and the Numidians beseiged a weakly garrisoned town, I sallied to try to drive them off, but the General was the faction heir so he beat my Nubian Spearmen, but didn't follow them into the city when they fled. So I quit the battle and I kept the town, while suffering a close defeat. The next turn they left probably because I had a huge relief force only a turn away.

Pint0 Xtreme · Post by **Pint0 Xtreme** » 2006-11-26 11:43pm

Why is it that whenever the pope has called a crusade, I'm the only one that is willing to take it? None of the other states have even bothered to send a single army and I've found myself travelling to some god-forsaken piece of land all by myself twice already. For one thing, it's given me free brownie points with the pope considering there's been no competition but I don't think that's history played it out.

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2006-11-27 02:47am

Pint0 Xtreme wrote:Why is it that whenever the pope has called a crusade, I'm the only one that is willing to take it? None of the other states have even bothered to send a single army and I've found myself travelling to some god-forsaken piece of land all by myself twice already. For one thing, it's given me free brownie points with the pope considering there's been no competition but I don't think that's history played it out.

Lucky you. Some eastern european faction always manages to take the target settlement before I arrive

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2006-11-27 03:25am

Has anyone tried the VH/VH difficulty? Trying it right now and it's a really... pain in the ass.. The AI replenishes troops darn quickly.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2006-11-27 05:44am

NRS Guardian wrote:
InnocentBystander wrote:What if the gates were already broken through?
I don't know. You could always try it, the worst that would happen is having to reload the game. If these are reinforcements the game will probably call it a draw leaving the city in your hands. Afterall if the game can see the AI has no intention of attacking during the battle it probably won't penalize you.
I found this out while playing the Egyptians and the Numidians beseiged a weakly garrisoned town, I sallied to try to drive them off, but the General was the faction heir so he beat my Nubian Spearmen, but didn't follow them into the city when they fled. So I quit the battle and I kept the town, while suffering a close defeat. The next turn they left probably because I had a huge relief force only a turn away.

I ended up exiting the fight, and took losses which were just unacceptable. If they had charged in their reinforcements, they would have died even quicker than the far better equipped group which tried before them. Horse and foot archers just don't do well when you've got 1200 spears at the gate.

Would anyone know how to change the 'set on fire' probability? I don't accept that 300 archers couldn't set a single ram on fire while being wheeled to the city gate. I'm glad that they aren't as pitiful as they were in rome (though I feel oil is still needed!), but these things are almost unstoppable. It took 100 archers a third of their ammo at point blank range to finally set it on fire after the first enemy army was destroyed.

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2006-11-27 05:55am

In a related question, is it possible to set fire to a siege tower once it reached the walls? It's been ages that I've managed to burn one down

Companion Cube · Post by **Companion Cube** » 2006-11-27 07:56am

wautd wrote:In a related question, is it possible to set fire to a siege tower once it reached the walls? It's been ages that I've managed to burn one down

I've had a unit of Sherwood archers and three units of archer militia exhaust half their ammo suppy on sending fire arrows at a docked siege tower, to no effect. On the other hand, this may be because they have an irritating tendency to fire their arrows straight up in an arc (with less accuracy as a result) instead of firing directly into a target at point-blank range.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2006-11-27 10:04am

3rd Impact wrote:
wautd wrote:In a related question, is it possible to set fire to a siege tower once it reached the walls? It's been ages that I've managed to burn one down
I've had a unit of Sherwood archers and three units of archer militia exhaust half their ammo suppy on sending fire arrows at a docked siege tower, to no effect. On the other hand, this may be because they have an irritating tendency to fire their arrows straight up in an arc (with less accuracy as a result) instead of firing directly into a target at point-blank range.

On a related note my siege towers and rams tend to go up after a few volleys from the computer player archer's arrows and its damned annoying since as some have noted here it is nearly impossible to do the same on your end when your archers are on the walls.

And these aren't high end archers either - we're talking peasant archers and only 1 or 2 units of them.

And I also think the archer units simply aren't as dangerous as they were in Rome. The AI parked a unit of spearmen in front of my lines and I decided to let my archers deal with them to see if I could get the unit to break or get down to a low enough number to make them combat ineffective.

The first few volleys from three stacks of Byzantine regular archers brought down the stack from 61 to 57. Hmmm. I decided on adding fire to see if the vaunted "bad for morale" effect would happen.

A few more volleys later and its down from 57 to 52. Damn. So much for that.

One caveat to my observation of nerfed archers is the longbowmen. Number one, their range is simply incredible. I was storming a castle and had taken the first set of gates and was charging head long towards the second set of gates when I see a formation of spearmen backed by dismounted knights forming up at the second gate.

I decided to whittle down their numbers a bit before I hit them head on and called on 2 units of longbowmen to go to work. Mind you the longbowmen were still camped outside the first set of walls where they had been providing fire support for my initial attack on the outer curtain wall.

I slow my men to a trot expecting the longbowmen to take some time to march through the gates to take up firing positions for this new attack. Lo and behold I see (and hear) the first volley of arrows arching high overhead and landing amongst the enemy troops more than a screen away! Wow. That's when I began to respect the range difference in the longbowmen and began to make sure all my English armies had at least 2 stacks with them.

Second on the longbowmen is power. I had a unit of swordsmen marching headlong towards 3 units of longbowmen, they had been overlooked by me during a rather chaotic battle at the foot of a fortress in Northern Italy. My cavalry was dispersed throughout the battlefield mopping up routing Milanese units (militia units Morale sucks at taking on a full fledged assault and I have taken great glee now in breaking Milanese and Venetian armies with some well timed blows) and my slow moving infantry was deep in the forest mopping up whatever pockets of resitance remained.

This lone unit of swordsmen were marching headlong towards my archers and I set them all to begin firing on the approaching unit while retreating back up the hill.

I expected my archers to get mauled as they have inevitably done whenever I get my missile units exposed like this.

Instead the longbowmen tore through those swordsmen like a hungry dog on a steak and within a few minutes had them down to a couple of dozen men from a full stack of 60. The longbowmen were never in any danger as the swordsmen did not seem to know what to do under all that fire, they would waver in one direction then another as I watched the little digital men collapse in heaps.

I'm currently playing as Byzantium and have knocked out the Egyptians and Turks are down to one city. I've killed Hungary and have expanded as far eastward as I ever have yet in this game. I've gotten the warning about the Mongol horde in a popup. When do they start appearing and in what provinces so I can be ready for them?

Also when one takes Rome (a requirement for Byzantine victory) do all CHrsitian nations immediately declare war and attack?

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-11-27 10:38am

It's likely the Papal States will call a Crusade on you if you enter open war with them. Who joins is up to them.

I'm still playing my England game- I'll play the Greeks after I finish and unlock everything. I've got over 30 regions, including Jerusalem. I really want to get to America though and kill some Aztecs. At this rate, I'll be finished the game by the 1400s (perhaps before, depending on what the soon-to-arrive Black Plague will do to me).

One thing that's a big issue on the forums- apart from the previously mentioned bug regarding Billmen, Dismounted English Knights, and other men equipped with two-handed weapons being incapable of attacking cavalry- is cavalry charges.

Anyone noticed a good charge hardly ever happens? When it does, it's awesome, but most of the time they'll never lower their lances, arrive in bits and pieces, or move so slowly as to make the charge worthless, taking unecessary casualties by acting like melee fighters. Objects in the way of their charge (a tree, a rock) will also fuck up the infinitely small chances of pulling off a good charge.

There's also the old issue of incompetent cavalry chasing routed units- they'll spread out halfway across the map for no reason, they'll be fucking slow- it's worse than Rome, really.

As for the Mongols- they appeared ages ago (it's 1330 in my game now) and only just last turn did I actually hear anything about them, apart from the rankings list repeatedly putting the Mongols at the top of the military pile (not anymore, my armies are greateR). Apparently they took Sofia region and settled there. WTF were they doing for a century? Nothing?

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2006-11-27 11:00am

Vympel wrote:Anyone noticed a good charge hardly ever happens? When it does, it's awesome, but most of the time they'll never lower their lances, arrive in bits and pieces, or move so slowly as to make the charge worthless, taking unecessary casualties by acting like melee fighters. Objects in the way of their charge (a tree, a rock) will also fuck up the infinitely small chances of pulling off a good charge.

I've most certainly noticed that. Playing France, by tactics are generally very simple: Mass mounted knight charge. And as my armies rarely contain any infantry beyond a few mercenaries recruited to lug around siege equipment, these anemic charges have been really screwing me over.

Alferd Packer · Post by **Alferd Packer** » 2006-11-27 12:08pm

So I got one of my Cardinals elected to the Papacy!

....now what? Aside from the huge boost to Papal relations (I'm maxed out), what else can I do when the Pope's on my side?

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2006-11-27 12:13pm

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:
Vympel wrote:Anyone noticed a good charge hardly ever happens? When it does, it's awesome, but most of the time they'll never lower their lances, arrive in bits and pieces, or move so slowly as to make the charge worthless, taking unecessary casualties by acting like melee fighters. Objects in the way of their charge (a tree, a rock) will also fuck up the infinitely small chances of pulling off a good charge.
I've most certainly noticed that. Playing France, by tactics are generally very simple: Mass mounted knight charge. And as my armies rarely contain any infantry beyond a few mercenaries recruited to lug around siege equipment, these anemic charges have been really screwing me over.

Same. Not to mention half of my cavalry tend to attack the wrong target (like going headon some pikemen while I targetted lone archers instead)

Ypoknons · Post by **Ypoknons** » 2006-11-27 01:50pm

Vympel wrote:Anyone noticed a good charge hardly ever happens? When it does, it's awesome, but most of the time they'll never lower their lances, arrive in bits and pieces, or move so slowly as to make the charge worthless, taking unecessary casualties by acting like melee fighters. Objects in the way of their charge (a tree, a rock) will also fuck up the infinitely small chances of pulling off a good charge.

Not entirely unrealistic there, but probably excessive.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2006-11-27 02:48pm

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:
Vympel wrote:Anyone noticed a good charge hardly ever happens? When it does, it's awesome, but most of the time they'll never lower their lances, arrive in bits and pieces, or move so slowly as to make the charge worthless, taking unecessary casualties by acting like melee fighters. Objects in the way of their charge (a tree, a rock) will also fuck up the infinitely small chances of pulling off a good charge.
I've most certainly noticed that. Playing France, by tactics are generally very simple: Mass mounted knight charge. And as my armies rarely contain any infantry beyond a few mercenaries recruited to lug around siege equipment, these anemic charges have been really screwing me over.

I thought I was doing something wrong myself because in Rome, you double-clicked on your target and voila a nice wedge shaped attack struck at full tilt. Now my cavary comes in drips and drabs, some half heartedly just cantering up to their targets.

And the pathfinding inside cities is absolutely attrocious. I once spent 10-15 minutes just guiding some cavalry through a single street to get to the townsquare. If I clicked too far down the street my forced would proceed to dutifully EXIT the city in good order. Christ that is annoying.

How can the pathfinding in this game be WORSE than Rome?? I remember being able to set up my cavalry on the oposite street of approach from my infanrty when hacking our way to the sqaure to get them between the hammer and the anvil. Can't do that anymore.

Oh and the announcements can be way off. I was assaulting a city and when my ram touched the door for the first time the announcement was "Our ram has done its work, now the butchery begins." Hold up their sparky, we'e not done yet. Or another one that really annoyed me "Our enemy has brought up reinforcements." I looked around concerned because I didn't recall reinforcements on the battle screen and our forces were already pretty evenly matched but no reinforcements in sight after a thorough scouring of the map.

I have yet to play until the discovery of the New World. ANyone get that far yet? I usually win before that point. Maybe I'll wait it out as Byzantium.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2006-11-27 04:22pm

Huh - shit is finally starting to happen. I had a nice, peaceful 50 turns, but now it's time to get involved.

I had a nice alliance with Venice going, good relations with Hungary (voted for their preferati, and even though he wasn't elected, it sure boosted my relations with Hungarians), and the Pope absolutely loves me and holds Poland as an example to all Christendom (even though I basically told him to get fucked with his little crusade, heh heh...PayPal States...)

Then Venice gets into a war with the HRE. The Pope does nothing, so they duke it out. Since I'm their ally, the Emperor decided to launch a surprise attack against me - too bad it wasn't a surprise at all. He besieged one of my castles with a full stack and got spanked hard by my King's brother.

War is in full swing now, even though I don't want it. The Pope, amazingly enough, does shit all to stop it, even though the HRE hasn't been excommunicated and isn't exactly on best terms with the Papal States.

It may have something to do with the fact that excommunicated Sicilians have taken control of Rome and are spanking the Pope right now like a little bitch.

Russians (my other ally) are starting to act up too, on the other side of the realm, sending priests into my provinces to stir shit up. My assasins have their hands full, and will for some time to come.

It seems some dark times await my kingdom. I should steel myself.

P.S.

Early Polish cavalry sucks dick. Most rebels have better stuff than me.

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2006-11-27 05:20pm

Well this sucks. I was defending a citadel against a superior force. I made a nice killzone with stakes and longbowmen shooting from every direction once they passed the first wall. I think the battle took more then half an hour but eventually the enemy army retreats after taking massive losses. Then 2 of his units get stuck at the border of the map, which I couldn't possible attack. I had to exit battle to get a close defeat on my screen

GuppyShark · Post by **GuppyShark** » 2006-11-27 06:09pm

The game IS supposed to be played with timed battles. It's a long time - I don't know why anyone would turn it off, since it forces a resolution.

Why couldn't you shoot/attack them?

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2006-11-27 06:32pm

What is the time duration? In old Rome it was some absurdly low amount of time... 20 minutes or so. In a *real* siege, I'll spend 15-20 minutes just pouding the city with my artillary before I even start moving the siege engines.

And time delays for combat in the open is just stupid (except in that case where I was on a mountain and the enemy reinforcements couldn't get to me, so I had to accept a huge loss for no reason).

D.Turtle · Post by **D.Turtle** » 2006-11-27 08:25pm

A few new notes of random stuff:

1) I am on the way to the New World! A fwe turns after the Timurids first appear, you get a message that apparently some people got this great idea that the world just might be round. After that you can build the largest Docks in order to build ships capable of going to the new world.

2) As others have mentioned, Mongols are crazy, Timurids are Mongols on crack. Their Elefant units cause all your cavalry to be pretty much useless (I have had units flee without having suffered any casualties, simply because of elefants being near them).

I defeated the first wave quite quickly, in one battle defeating most of his armies - 5000 men (3 stacks) of his vs 6000 (4 stacks) of mine - pretty much the whole map was covered with bodies). I then disbanded the armies I had trained, and waited for the next wave - I wanted some city sieges against fullly built up towns.

So the first army attacks one city - and after shooting one volley with their elefants, just stood there and were blasted to bits by the towers - with new units being moved forward after enough were killed. The second army charged against all my units waiting in the city square (because of elefants), I killed them but lost almost all defending troops. The third army attacked immediately, and charged through the broken walls and utterly crushed the defenders.

3) The single most effective unit you have are your spies. Why?

Plagues.

When a spy moves into a city where a plague is raging, he is ALWAYS infected, but does not necessarily die - and even when he does it takes several turns for that to happen.
When an infected spy moves into a city, the city is ALWAYS infected - meaning population loss, no trade, loss of soldiers, rise in unrest, etc.
So simply have a large spy association, completely committed to spreading the plague to all your enemies, and making sure that they never stop.
This is also the reason why some of your own cities have long plagues, because they are being infected by enemy spies (except the AI doesn't do it on purpose). You need several spies in your frontier cities to detect and eliminate enemy spies.
In my game, I pretty much CAUSED the Black plague, and made certain that it kept on raging for decades. The largest city the Danes had (controlling almost all of middle and northern Europe), had a popultaion of 10k. They had UNDEFENDED cities. They were unable to muster any army larger than maybe a quarter stack. Similar for the spaniards (controlling all of western Europe, except for their vvassal states and the Scottish Isles (The English were driven out of England).

If you want to win cheap, use your spies. (I stopped, because it was too easy)

4) The AI is weird. Not only battlefield AI, but also strategic AI.
In my game, I was ALLIED to the papal states, allied to the premier catholic states (that 50k or so surplus has to go somewhere

), had peace with all european countries, stopped any westward expansion (I don't want to win the game yet, because I want to get to the new world). At the same time the Moors (is that what they are called - the other islamic empire in Africa) had started gobbling up plague-wracked Spain from behind.
So what happens?
A crusade is called out against - JERUSALEM, my capital...
How nice of me to have financed their crusade against me...

Well, as soon as I have reached the New world, I'll try the game on very hard/very hard with a weaker power, maybe the game will be challenging then

Master of Cards · Post by **Master of Cards** » 2006-11-27 09:03pm

I made a game to kill the pope I have killed about 6 of them they spawn in the Rome Region