Macs: Only cool enough for your granny

[Dominus Atheos]

Actual article title

In its latest batch of adverts, Apple painted the Mac as the young, cool face of desktop computing. But now research has found it's the silver surfers who have a yen for Cupertino's goods - while the kids are opting for cheap Windows machines.

According to a report from industry watchers MetaFacts, nearly half of Mac owners are 55 and older - that's almost double the share for average home-PC users.

For the digital youth, high-street box shifter Gateway is the brand of choice, taking the number-one slot among PC buyers aged between 18 and 25.

Dan Ness, principal at MetaFacts, said in a statement: "Apple can claim long-time loyalists but its future among the young technoliterati is an interesting dynamic."

Apple has in past ad campaigns hoped to trade on the cachet and cool of the iPod to persuade Windows users to switch to Macs, explicitly marketing the device as from the people behind the iPod.

The Mac maker is also reportedly investigating the true nature of the so-called iPod halo effect, where owning an iPod causes users to switch from PC to Mac. While the Mac's market share remains in single figures, Apple has said that it is seeing more first-time buyers picking up its kit.

The halo effect is given credence by MetaFacts' research, which reports that more than two-thirds of Macs in current use were bought since 2004. By comparison, when looking at all computers in current use, only half were bought since 2004. The iPod was first introduced in 2001.

The report did find Apple users are ahead of the curve in mobility, with a far higher percentage of users who prefer laptops to desktops. More than half of Apple households have laptops, compared to the 30 per cent of computer users as a whole who use a notebook as their primary computer.

I never really got the point of Macs. It seems like Linux can do everything Macs can, if not better, and for free.

[Admiral Valdemar]

You'd better don some asbestos, because I hear Durandal and a whole load of Mac fanboys ready to let rip.

Sayonara!

[Edward Yee]

Heh! I'm actually not surprised; at least around my school, what I've seen is that Windows is in the by-far majority (all student computers I've seen were laptops), and all school desktops I've seen were Windows -- either 2000 or XP. I'm guessing that compatibility with either school, home or friends is that much a factor.

(Incidentally, the school library's laptop rental program has Mac iBooks or PowerBooks for "due back at 8pm today," but Dells or Panasonics for "3 hours" or "72 hours." Also, it seems that all of the library-catalog-site-only computers there were Macs.)

[Praxis]

I never really got the point of Macs. It seems like Linux can do everything Macs can, if not better, and for free.

You could say the same thing about Windows.

Thing is, Mac OS X is basically like Linux, except easy to use with little set up difficulties, and it runs on some very well engineered hardware. Much better for, say, grannies mentioned in the article.

In all honesty, while I get a lot of college students buying Macs the majority of first-time buyers (switchers) at CompUSA are older people.

The local CompUSA is getting TONS of first-time buyers. We get some longtime users, but most buyers are switching over.

[Elaro]

Can I install OS X on the computer (non-Mac) I built this summer? No?

Unrestrained OSs >> Mac

[phongn]

I never really got the point of Macs. It seems like Linux can do everything Macs can, if not better, and for free.

You mean how Macs can run applications people want to use or have a consistent user interface?

[atg]

Can I install OS X on the computer (non-Mac) I built this summer? No?

Unrestrained OSs >> Mac

From a technical perspective you can, and I personally have had OSX runnng on a Athlon64 based system. Legally you can't do so.

[RedImperator]

I switched for three reasons:

1. I was tired of Windows. I have a policy regarding buying products: if a company takes my money and gives me shit, I don't reward them by giving them more of my money when they come out with a "new and improved" version. Microsoft took my money and gave me shit for years, so the fact that XP SP2 or Vista eliminate most of the bullshit I had to deal with with Win98 in no way makes me forgive them for all the wasted time and frustration I put up with thanks to their slipshod engineering and abysmal quality control.

2. The above applies to Dell and Gateway, who both sold me a laptop which sucked. That basically put me out of the under-$1000 laptop market anyway (and no, my previous laptops from them were not under a thousand dollars, and they still performed so badly that I refuse to deal with either company anymore).

3. I found Linux's blizzard of different versions confusing and I didn't want to have to start at the bottom of a steep learning curve. I bought my current laptop in July 2005, which is when I was starting grad school. At that point, I didn't need to deal with being a n00b all over again.

Apple had a laptop in my price range with a stable, easy to use operating system. I asked around, got generally positive reviews of their machines, bought one, picked up OSX in a few hours, and never looked back. I don't use specialized Windows only applications and I'm not a gamer, so the more limited software selection has never been an issue. The machine still runs like it's brand new and OSX has never given me a problem. I'll probably stay loyal to Apple from now on unless they really fuck something up.

[Captain Cyran]

The Mac maker is also reportedly investigating the true nature of the so-called iPod halo effect, where owning an iPod causes users to switch from PC to Mac. While the Mac's market share remains in single figures, Apple has said that it is seeing more first-time buyers picking up its kit.

The halo effect is given credence by MetaFacts' research, which reports that more than two-thirds of Macs in current use were bought since 2004. By comparison, when looking at all computers in current use, only half were bought since 2004. The iPod was first introduced in 2001.

What? Am I the only person that thinks this only proves people to be absolutely retarded?

It's like only buying Nintendo consoles, and then you buy a SONY TV and you like it so you switch to PlayStation. It makes no sense.

[Covenant]

I'm an avid PC user, but now that Mac has made some efforts to close the divide it's mostly an aesthetic and comfort choice for most people. Being able to dual boot has even attracted some interest from me, since I can't really easily boot into OSX on an intel as it stands right now, and there's software that macs have that I want. Just not enough to make it worth a real switch though.

It's wrong to say they have no point. Computers, by and large, are used for a lot of things that aren't their point at all. If all you want is internet surfing, word processing, and data storage with some minor entertainment functionality (IE, MP3 storage and such) then it really won't matter what OS you use, and a Mac's stripped down interface makes it simpler and easier. I'd recommend them to anyone who didn't want to fuck around and just get what they're looking for. Windows is pretty accessible too, but I know all the tricks by now, so it's hardly a fair comparison. Using a windows machine blind, without the tricks, is probably a lot harder than using a Mac for the first time--and not harder as in it takes more skill, but harder in the sense that you're more likely to get frustrated by something that is genuinely frustrating.

If you want a gaming rig, it's pretty obvious a PC set is going to be your first pick. If you think of it as an appliance, like a toaster that stores music, helps you make movies, and prints shit, then get a Mac. If you want to control every single piece of your computer optimally, something like Linux might be your cup of tea. The real enemy in finding out what computer flavor to use is the bunch who feel there's some sort of status affixed to the OS's, or that any of them are incapable of being usable. Even Linux can be idiot-proof if it's installed for you.

[Praxis]

The Mac maker is also reportedly investigating the true nature of the so-called iPod halo effect, where owning an iPod causes users to switch from PC to Mac. While the Mac's market share remains in single figures, Apple has said that it is seeing more first-time buyers picking up its kit.

The halo effect is given credence by MetaFacts' research, which reports that more than two-thirds of Macs in current use were bought since 2004. By comparison, when looking at all computers in current use, only half were bought since 2004. The iPod was first introduced in 2001.

What? Am I the only person that thinks this only proves people to be absolutely retarded?

It's like only buying Nintendo consoles, and then you buy a SONY TV and you like it so you switch to PlayStation. It makes no sense.

Well, the fact is that a lot of people completely overlook Apple. A lot of people have the "Macs suck" mentality and others don't even realize Apple is still in the market. The Apple logo on the iPod gets people interested in Apple's hardware design.

And it doesn't prove anything; we've known for a while that people are absolutely retarded

[Uraniun235]

I think part of the problem is that a lot of people who use Windows and argue in favor of Windows on internet message boards typically don't have many problems with Windows so they think "What's the big fucking deal?"

I don't have problems with Windows; I have no spyware whatsoever, I've never had a virus, I never got buttfucked by the Blaster worm, my hardware is compatible so I don't get screwy intermittent crashes, and ever since I switched to Win2K things stayed fairly stable.

BUT

I know that not all is peaches and cream for others. I have seen machines which simply refuse to cooperate and seem less stable than RSA's grasp on reality... sometimes because they've been garbaged-up by a clueless user who likes to PUNCH THE MONKEY, sometimes because of a bad driver or because of faulty or incompatible hardware. Sometimes I've thunked my head against the wall trying to figure out why my friend's computer refuses to cooperate. And I know that a lot of people out there are not interested in playing games on their computer.

That is why I am quite willing to concede that Apple makes very good computers and that a Mac is a better computer for a lot of people. It's not better for me - I love the games and I am addicted to the thrill of upgrading my computer myself every so often and Apple hardware is a touch more expensive - but it's better for a lot of people, and generally if someone older than me comes to me and asks "what sort of computer should I buy?" I have asked and will ask in the future "Have you considered a Mac?"

[ThatGuyFromThatPlace]

pffft macs. After losing months of work on a project for Film class on a Mac G4 last year (I never understood why macs are considered 'artsy' computers anyway, one mouse button seriously cut into my video editing skillz)
This year I lost an entire class period jumping from empty power-mac to empty power-mac in my schools Mac-lab only to have every single one of them crash hard.
stable my left ass cheek I've seen more Mac crashes than Window's ones and I don't own a Mac.

And that doesn't even cover that as a (beginner) Computer Enthusiast, under-clocked hardware for high-quality prices pisses me off when I could go knock together a better computer than any Mac for much less of the green.

I'll take Linux any day, hell I'll even take windows Vista over Apple.

[phongn]

pffft macs. After losing months of work on a project for Film class on a Mac G4 last year (I never understood why macs are considered 'artsy' computers anyway, one mouse button seriously cut into my video editing skillz)

Two button mice are widely available and most professional video editors use ones with even more (or trackballs). As for why they are 'artsy' - the combination of the Macintosh and the original LaserWriter - with PostScript support - was a killer one. Additional innovations in color management kept the Mac at the forefront of media work and it was not seriously challenged until Microsoft Windows caught up and IA32 processors began their speed race to outpace PPC.

This year I lost an entire class period jumping from empty power-mac to empty power-mac in my schools Mac-lab only to have every single one of them crash hard. stable my left ass cheek I've seen more Mac crashes than Window's ones and I don't own a Mac.

Yes, because school lab computers are such a representative set. You also fail to consider that the crashes might not be indicative of the Mac but rather of shoddy maintenance, administration or hardware.

And that doesn't even cover that as a (beginner) Computer Enthusiast, under-clocked hardware for high-quality prices pisses me off when I could go knock together a better computer than any Mac for much less of the green.

I was unaware that Apple underclocked their computers (hint: they don't). You could build a faster computer, yes. It would also be unsupported (bad for industry purposes) and would not support OS X (part of the Mac platform, which might not be useful for you).

Incidentally, you might not save that much money trying to compete with the professional Macs. Multiple-socket Xeon or Opteron motherboards are not cheap.

I'll take Linux any day, hell I'll even take windows Vista over Apple.

Fortunately, Macs can run Linux, Windows and OS X.

[Sikon]

The easiest way to see the relative popularity of Macs versus Windows PCs is in a computer lab which has a large number of each. Even when there is motivation due to all of the other computers being occupied, it seems like typically under 10% of college students will use Macs.

That may not be Apple's fault so much as just a matter of people not wanting to trouble themselves with learning a new operating system, without the advantage of free Linux, but the effect is the same.

[Stark]

The easiest way to see the relative popularity of Macs versus Windows PCs is in a computer lab which has a large number of each. Even when there is motivation due to all of the other computers being occupied, it seems like typically under 10% of college students will use Macs.

That may not be Apple's fault so much as just a matter of people not wanting to trouble themselves with learning a new operating system, without the advantage of free Linux, but the effect is the same.

Call me nuts, but I'd say this has more to do with the realities of assignment work than anything else. In labs, you're either doing something specific or group work or both: it's a pain in the ass running a cross-platform project, and most courses rely on software only available on one platform.

Nah, the free advantage of Linux is a real draw in a free computer lab, right? It couldn't be practical concerns at all.

At my university, the labs are Linux/windows, and getting stuck with a windows box sucks for an IT student, as most of the environments and apps you need for postgrad are only available on Linux. So, does this mean people prefer Linux boxes? Ridiculous - you have to use what you have to use, the end.

[atg]

The easiest way to see the relative popularity of Macs versus Windows PCs is in a computer lab which has a large number of each. Even when there is motivation due to all of the other computers being occupied, it seems like typically under 10% of college students will use Macs.

That may not be Apple's fault so much as just a matter of people not wanting to trouble themselves with learning a new operating system, without the advantage of free Linux, but the effect is the same.

Call me nuts, but I'd say this has more to do with the realities of assignment work than anything else. In labs, you're either doing something specific or group work or both: it's a pain in the ass running a cross-platform project, and most courses rely on software only available on one platform.

Nah, the free advantage of Linux is a real draw in a free computer lab, right? It couldn't be practical concerns at all.

At my university, the labs are Linux/windows, and getting stuck with a windows box sucks for an IT student, as most of the environments and apps you need for postgrad are only available on Linux. So, does this mean people prefer Linux boxes? Ridiculous - you have to use what you have to use, the end.

Imagine trying to bring logic into a Windows/Mac/Linux arguement. Shame on you Stark

[Praxis]

pffft macs. After losing months of work on a project for Film class on a Mac G4 last year (I never understood why macs are considered 'artsy' computers anyway, one mouse button seriously cut into my video editing skillz)

Then you're a retard. Plug in a two button mouse. Right click works just fine.
And..."skillz"?

And that doesn't even cover that as a (beginner) Computer Enthusiast, under-clocked hardware for high-quality prices pisses me off when I could go knock together a better computer than any Mac for much less of the green.

I'll take Linux any day, hell I'll even take windows Vista over Apple.

Underclocked hardware?

I'm not even going to bother refuting this idiotic comment.

Actually, maybe I will. Find me better hardware than a Mac Pro at a significantly lower price. I dare you.

There is a level of markup on the lower end Macs, which comes down to hardware engineering (Sony's ultrathin desktops have similar markup to the iMac and Mac Mini, probably worse IIRC).

[salm]

I´ve been using Photoshop on Windows at home and uni and Photoshop at work at a job I had couple of years ago.

The Mac version is a lot better. For example, if you drawing a selection with the lasso tool and want to scroll the image the mac version will scroll in an adequat speed while the windows version will scroll with fucking light speed making it impossible to work porperly.
I´ve been wonderíng for a while if this is Microsofts of Adobes fuckup.

And the Apple button is cool. You have four buttons (Shift, ctrl, alt and apple button) to get alternate functions from keys. On the other hand the Mac Keyboard lacks a bunch of useful buttons such as "pos1" and "end".

Otherwise i´ve not found any advantages a Mac has over a PC.
Lots of software isn´t available for Macs, the UI is annoying to me, The stylish buttons and overall design is beginning to get on my nerves.

[Sikon]

<snip>

Call me nuts, but I'd say this has more to do with the realities of assignment work than anything else. In labs, you're either doing something specific or group work or both: it's a pain in the ass running a cross-platform project, and most courses rely on software only available on one platform.

There is some truth in that, but the situation seems to apply even when a lot of people are just browsing the internet, playing computer games, or writing papers. It applies even to the vast majority of humanities students. Like I said, people tend to use what is familiar to them, which puts Macs relatively at a competitive disadvantage compared to Windows. Still, another factor for many is the available programs, as you implied.

Nah, the free advantage of Linux is a real draw in a free computer lab, right?

Not directly. But many learned Linux with it on their home computers.

It couldn't be practical concerns at all.

At my university, the labs are Linux/windows, and getting stuck with a windows box sucks for an IT student, as most of the environments and apps you need for postgrad are only available on Linux. So, does this mean people prefer Linux boxes? Ridiculous - you have to use what you have to use, the end.

I am fairly sure more computer science types do prefer Linux over Macs, perhaps partially because of the available software. A lot probably haven't even tried Macs much anyway. One certainly can't prefer something one has not used. Some substantial percentage prefer Linux over Windows.

[Stark]

I'm just going to point out that a big part of 'IT types' liking or using Linux is that they're constantly exposed to it. My uni has no Macs: does that mean everyone in my course 'prefers' Linux to OSX? No, it means they use what they have to use to finish the course. Many of them have probably never even used a Mac.

My course isn't full of IT-stereotype home tinkerers, it's career people looking for skills, not a hobby. Further, you don't NEED to 'learn' OSX at home; my cripplingly computer-illiterate family can use Macs with no instruction, Windows with HEAPS of instruction, and I shudder at the fucking THOUGHT of them trying to use Linux. Do they 'prefer' Macs? For their needs, yes they do.

Frankly, you say in your post that the people you're talking about have probably never used Macs. This is also my experience. So why the hell do you think they are qualified to judge jack or shit?

[GuppyShark]

I find it more interesting that people have been so sown up by Apple's marketing department that they're surprised that young people, who are traditionally early adopters of technology, are less of a dominant faction in Apple's demographics than the elderly, to whom learning to use a computer represents an obstacle, not an opportunity.

Apples are designed to be simple, and older users prefer simple. I'm not talking completely out of my ass - I've used Macs in education and employment. People grumbled at first when we replaced the Macs in my workplace with PCs, but it was the old workers who did - and now you don't hear a word of complaint, because the PCs are better and they've gotten used to them.

And despite this, Apple retain some sort of 'hip' status because they're not the 'mundane' Windows system.

[ray245]

The problem is not many people would care if it's windows is better or Mac. Both are OS, both can work and open up basic functions like internet, PowerPoint’s and etcs.

Another thing that makes people buy windows because it comes together at times with the desk top or lap top, making them save money for the OS. These are typical people, and not willing to invest so much for computer when they only need the basic function.

Also, people are more used to the windows interface rather than Mac, hence not many would even bother about learning or getting used to mac.
More games are designed on the Windows OS rather than Mac, hence Microsoft basically cover the gamer's market. Are there more games on windows or Mac?

So to sum it up, most people don't really care which OS is better, neither do they really look into that many bugs and wanted it fixed. Hence, the younger people, with less money would still rely on windows and care less.
.

[Sikon]

I'm just going to point out that a big part of 'IT types' liking or using Linux is that they're constantly exposed to it. My uni has no Macs: does that mean everyone in my course 'prefers' Linux to OSX? No, it means they use what they have to use to finish the course. Many of them have probably never even used a Mac.

My course isn't full of IT-stereotype home tinkerers, it's career people looking for skills, not a hobby. Further, you don't NEED to 'learn' OSX at home; my cripplingly computer-illiterate family can use Macs with no instruction, Windows with HEAPS of instruction, and I shudder at the fucking THOUGHT of them trying to use Linux. Do they 'prefer' Macs? For their needs, yes they do.

Frankly, you say in your post that the people you're talking about have probably never used Macs. This is also my experience. So why the hell do you think they are qualified to judge jack or shit?

Actually I am not suggesting people without experience on both are qualified to judge. I wasn't trying to get into a debate about whether OS X or Windows is better. I was just making an observation on why Macs aren't preferred by much of the total population.

I think we agree that one factor is because fewer people have used Macs.

That is often combined with other factors, like how I wouldn't have much interest in a Mac myself particularly because I know it wouldn't run my software. Like many other people, I am not particularly qualified to judge the overall differences between OS X and Windows XP, but I know I personally wouldn't benefit from switching.

[GuppyShark]

Mac OS comes with Macs. Windows comes with PCs. I don't quite see your point, ray. It's not like old people are buying PCs and then installing MacOS on them