Physics Goes Euro

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Ace Pace
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Physics Goes Euro

Post by Ace Pace »

Where has all the american money gone?
To europe!
GENEVA -- A year from now, scientists here will throw a switch sending protons smashing into each other at near the speed of light, bringing thousands of researchers from around the world to study the results.

With that action, the world's center of gravity for high-energy physics research will shift unambiguously to Europe for the first time, a prospect that is leaving American scientists and policy makers increasingly concerned. Already students and researchers are flocking to this side of the Atlantic to help design, build and test what will be the most powerful high-energy physics project ever built.

"Our best scientists will be doing their best work in laboratories overseas," said Robin Staffin, who directs the U.S. Department of Energy's high-energy physics division. "The frontier will be at this machine."

For a U.S. scientific community that has held a leading role in particle physics at least since the Manhattan Project, this is an unfamiliar, and potentially deeply disturbing, change.

Policy makers and educators are already worried about falling interest in math and sciences among U.S. students. Now, the prospect of seeing the world's leading high-energy physics laboratories move overseas is drawing strong calls for renewed investment, and even a few dire warnings of national decline.

"Support for particle physics in the United States has stagnated," warned a recent high-profile report from the National Research Council that argues for taking the lead in the field's next multibillion-dollar project. "A strong role in particle physics is necessary if the United States is to sustain its leadership in science and technology over the long term."

This call to arms is tempered both by scientific and economic realities, however. Projects on the scale of CERN's Large Hadron Collider, or LHC, cost billions of dollars, realistically putting them out of reach of even the richest nations acting alone.

This has been a painful lesson for the U.S. physics community to learn. In the late '80s, the country had launched an ambitious project dubbed the Superconducting Supercollider, or SSC, which would have been even more powerful than CERN's new accelerator and would have helped cement U.S. laboratories' leading position for years to come.

But in 1993, a deficit-shy Congress canceled the project after deep cost overruns, and after finding that other countries were reluctant to contribute financially to a project so dominated by the United States. That action helped open the door for the LHC, which was approved by CERN's European member states the following year.

Science officials say those scars remain fresh in the American political memory, but that any new venture would be handled differently.

"In discussions of large machines, the SSC is something like Caesar's ghost. It's definitely there," Staffin said. "But the LHC shows it can be done. We believe we have learned many of the lessons of SSC, such as the importance of internationalizing it, and the importance of strong oversight."

This complicated mix of international scientific goals and national ambition is now helping drive particle physics' next multibillion-dollar proposal, a cross-border collaboration dubbed the International Linear Collider, or ILC.
Looking Into the Future


Why is another hugely expensive project already needed if CERN's accelerator is viewed with such tremendous optimism? The answer requires a short trip through the guts of the accelerators themselves.

The LHC will reach unprecedented energies for physics experiments, smashing particles together in debris-scattering collisions that scientists hope will create never-before-seen particles. But this massive power comes at a cost.

The particles used in the LHC experiment will mostly be protons, which are themselves made up of three individual smaller particles called quarks. Because scientists won't know exactly how these individual quarks collided, their conclusions will necessarily carry some uncertainty.

The proposed ILC would instead smash together electrons and their antimatter counterparts, positrons. These are themselves fundamental particles, with no smaller components inside. Moreover, they can be tightly controlled in an accelerator beam, so information about their precise characteristics at the time of collision can be known with great confidence.

These two models have complemented each other well in previous generations of accelerators. Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory's Tevatron, today's most powerful machine, is similar to the LHC, smashing protons and their antimatter counterparts together. CERN's previous facility was based on the simpler particles, and thus able to make more precise measurements.

"This concept has worked extremely well over last 40 or 50 years," said Rolf-Dieter Heuer, director of Germany's DESY physics lab, which has played a key role in developing the ILC designs. "One alone is not enough. We would not be where we are today if we only had one model to work with."

All this is a far cry from the long-departed SSC, even if some Americans hope to bring it to U.S. soil. Researchers from around globe collectively identified the ILC as the field's logical next step, and governments around the world have contributed to early research and development.

But ultimately, this borderless collaboration will have to confront the tensions of the political world.

The cost alone will be a serious hurdle. The LHC is costing about $8 billion to build. CERN's European member states are chipping in about three-fifths of that. The rest comes from other countries, including about $500 million from the United States.

As yet, the ILC has no price tag attached, although some scientists say it is likely to be on the same rough scale as the LHC. An international committee tasked with drawing up an initial, provisional cost estimate is slated to report in early 2007, but as yet its early work has remained a closely guarded secret.

Then will come the decision of where to put it. U.S. scientists and policy makers are pushing hard for the United States to make a bid, but Europe, Japan and perhaps others might seek the same role. Once a country wins a bid, retaining truly international funding might become difficult. That prospect triggers some pessimism from scientists, particularly those who lived through the SSC process.

"It has to be located somewhere," said University of Texas at Austin physicist Steven Weinberg. "That host country will be looking for support, and foreign countries will think they'd rather spend at home."

All of this remains in the hazy future of politics and funding, however. Today, CERN's project has brought international physics to the brink of genuinely new discoveries, in which the details of nationality fade quickly away. The cross-border nature of ILC's design process has underscored the field's increasingly collaborative nature, say participants such as Heuer.

"From now on it's going to be like this," said University of Wisconsin physicist Dick Loveless, who has spent the last few years shuttling across the Atlantic for work at the LHC. "When you speak of a machine of this size, you have to speak of coordination. There's no way you can go back to local projects."
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Post by RedImperator »

ShroomMan's content-free flamebait/spam post obliterated.
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Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Well, the Americans cancelled the SuperCollider so...
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Post by kheegster »

All of this remains in the hazy future of politics and funding, however. Today, CERN's project has brought international physics to the brink of genuinely new discoveries, in which the details of nationality fade quickly away. The cross-border nature of ILC's design process has underscored the field's increasingly collaborative nature, say participants such as Heuer.

"From now on it's going to be like this," said University of Wisconsin physicist Dick Loveless, who has spent the last few years shuttling across the Atlantic for work at the LHC. "When you speak of a machine of this size, you have to speak of coordination. There's no way you can go back to local projects."
I think this is the main point of the article, rather than '0H n03z t3h 3Ur0p34ns R t4k1nG 0v3R!!!'. The world community can only support one project like the LHC, and CERN is an obvious choice because the project can use the 27.5km tunnel built for the LEP project.

If and when the ILC gets approved, there's a good chance that the US will be selected as a site, which conversely doesn't have to mean that the Europeans are losing ground in particle physics.

Mind you, I do believe that US science is beginning to lose ground to other nations, but for the moment it's still dominant.
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Post by Ariphaos »

Didn't canceling the Supercollider end up costing more than what it would have taken to finish it?

Anyway, as these articles continue American policymakers will be hit on it more and more to reverse the situation, and really, I wouldn't hae it any other way.

There is nothing wrong with cooperating nations trying to outdo eachother in the research arena, in the dreams of another nation building a technological legacy in the 21st century comparable in scale and scope to America's in the 20th.
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Post by Patrick Degan »

Policy makers and educators are already worried about falling interest in math and sciences among U.S. students. Now, the prospect of seeing the world's leading high-energy physics laboratories move overseas is drawing strong calls for renewed investment, and even a few dire warnings of national decline.

"Support for particle physics in the United States has stagnated," warned a recent high-profile report from the National Research Council that argues for taking the lead in the field's next multibillion-dollar project. "A strong role in particle physics is necessary if the United States is to sustain its leadership in science and technology over the long term."
Ah, but that isn't so important in a nation where the big concern is to get right with Sgt. Jeebus before the Apocalypse comes.
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Post by phongn »

Xeriar wrote:Didn't canceling the Supercollider end up costing more than what it would have taken to finish it?
Yes. Cancellation of the SSC cost more than it would have to run the thing for a year but Congress thought that it could not afford both the ISS and the SSC. Idiotic, but that's Congress for you.
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Post by RedImperator »

phongn wrote:
Xeriar wrote:Didn't canceling the Supercollider end up costing more than what it would have taken to finish it?
Yes. Cancellation of the SSC cost more than it would have to run the thing for a year but Congress thought that it could not afford both the ISS and the SSC. Idiotic, but that's Congress for you.
Is that the ISS as in the Flying Space Boondoggle, or some other ISS?
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Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

RedImperator wrote:
phongn wrote:
Xeriar wrote:Didn't canceling the Supercollider end up costing more than what it would have taken to finish it?
Yes. Cancellation of the SSC cost more than it would have to run the thing for a year but Congress thought that it could not afford both the ISS and the SSC. Idiotic, but that's Congress for you.
Is that the ISS as in the Flying Space Boondoggle, or some other ISS?
International Space Station I think.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
International Space Station I think.
That's what Red meant. The orbital black hole for cash that is second only to Iraq in terms of lack of return on investment.
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Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
International Space Station I think.
That's what Red meant. The orbital black hole for cash that is second only to Iraq in terms of lack of return on investment.
Well, the project, unlike the SSC, was driven more for the sake of "international space cooperation". Though in my opinion, it's possible that they could have refitted the Mir for that purpose, since it has successfully stayed in orbit for so long.
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Post by K. A. Pital »

[rant]Sinking the Mir was one of the last-time political bullshit actions of Russia. Why the fuck do it? Many cosmonauts later said that the Mir was durable enough for years in orbit, and the Mir-2 project could've cost us less than this ISS idiocy. Fucking politicians, licking each other's ass in that nifty game called "international cooperation" and cashing out money - like we couldn't support our own station, with our reliant Soyuz fleet, and needed to take part in that bullshit ISS thing (even there, we brought up two of hte main modules).[/rant]
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Post by phongn »

The US could have supported its own station as well, for a fraction of the price ISS would have cost (see various Freedom proposals).
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Post by K. A. Pital »

That's why the ISS is a boondogle. I think everyone just lost any motivation aside from "hoard moneys from this new, but not my, space project". And didn't even think about, like, finishing it.
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Post by RedImperator »

It's a Goddamn disgrace that in the year 2006, the best we can do as a species to get off this planet is one shitty little LEO space hovel that's going to cost one tenth of one trillion dollars. All they need is to put a car on blocks outside and you could have a hundred billion dollar trailer park.
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Post by Patrick Degan »

ISS wasn't necessary to achieve the hallowed goal of international space cooperation. That could easily have been possible with a string of orbital stations put up by the U.S. and Russia, which would doubtless have incorporated components from other nations into the construction, and there would have been more platforms to support missions, space science, or even, if it came to it, rescue efforts.
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Post by Sikon »

RedImperator wrote:It's a Goddamn disgrace that in the year 2006, the best we can do as a species to get off this planet is one shitty little LEO space hovel that's going to cost one tenth of one trillion dollars. All they need is to put a car on blocks outside and you could have a hundred billion dollar trailer park.
Yes. The problem is too many think of the current space program as an acceptable success.

International space cooperation is okay if it works out, but it shouldn't distract from more important goals. Considering proposals like the Sea Dragon, terrestrial mass drivers, or even just how existing rockets could be better used leads to one conclusion:

The fundamental reason space hardware still costs so much more than its mass in gold and so many orders of magnitude above energy costs is because governments don't really see anything wrong with mainly continuing the status quo indefinitely. To the U.S. Congress, the space program is mostly about keeping the public satisfied by looking like one is doing something, like building the ISS, enhancing relations with other nations through space cooperation, etc.

With such "false success," avoiding real change is totally acceptable. For example, the fundamental reason Congress didn't fund the Sea Dragon after NASA's study verified that it would reduce launch costs a number of times was not really because of the development costs. Development cost would have been one to two orders of magnitude less than the $100+ billion ISS expense. The reason was because Congress isn't much interested in doing more than sending up and down a handful of astronauts at a time.

If only NASA was actually told that their absolute primary goal was to follow a plan like that outlined in NASA's 1976 Space Station Summer Study, they would manage it. That involved a 10-million-ton spacestation completed after 22 years of average annual expenses equivalent to $33 billion per year in today's dollars, including funds for development costs. More importantly, it included massive space construction capability, lunar mass drivers, etc. For perspective, NASA's current budget is $17 billion, only a bit more than 1/1000th of GDP.

That space station study plan wasn't perfect. It was sub-optimal for various reasons that one could discuss in depth. However, it did have the right basic idea of creating real space industrial capability, allowing an astronaut to eat a meal without its launch cost being the equivalent of the annual wages of a person on earth. Also, the preceding costs would be less if done differently. For example, the equivalent of $400/lb in today's dollars to orbit was assumed in the study, but terrestrial mass drivers or even the Sea Dragon could actually obtain much lower costs.

What is missing is the recognition that the space program should be about building a massive infrastructure. With that, even exploration would be far cheaper in the long run. For example, there would be no issues with zero-gravity exposure for a Mars mission if the spaceship could have the extra mass of artificial gravity rotating segments, nor would radiation shielding be so troublesome.

Without it, the result is superficial gestures like international cooperation on the ISS that politicians can talk about, not actually accomplishing as much. One of the main purposes of the ISS was to study the negative effects of prolonged zero-gravity exposure for months or longer, but the same $100+ billion allocated right could have indirectly mostly eliminated the entire issue.
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