Q vs. yoda and Palpatine

[Darth_Nader]

could yoda and palpatine defeat Q in a battle and can anyone or anything defeat Q in the Star Wars universe? and Q's are they gods if not they have to be destroyed by something (they cant be gods). and couldnt he be destroyed by a lethal Force Storm of some sort. Remember the force is like a god like form in the Star Wars galaxy, you can never kill it except for the pyhsical form.

[Robert Walper]

could yoda and palpatine defeat Q in a battle

I don't believe so, though that doesn't mean it is so. I suspect the probability is generally excepted as extremely low.

and can anyone or anything defeat Q in the Star Wars universe?

Not that I can think of.

and Q's are they gods

They demostrate "godlike" powers, but apparently aren't considered "gods" by most Federation personnel, just extremely powerful aliens of some sort.

if not they have to be destroyed by something (they cant be gods).

Apparently they can be killed by weapons they themselves create, although I don't think they'd give such weapons to enemies in a confrontation. Nor does it seem likely any foe could realistically capture or retrieve such weaponry without assistance from another Q entity.

and couldnt he be destroyed by a lethal Force Storm of some sort.

If a Q entity can toss a starship 7000 lightyears in under 30 seconds, it would seem more than likely one could remove itself from any position with similar ease, if it felt threatened by such an attack, which I personally doubt.

Remember the force is like a god like form in the Star Wars galaxy,

However, from all evidence known to myself, such Force powers are far exceeded by Q entities.

you can never kill it except for the pyhsical form.

I believe that it is generally excepted that it is " highly unlikely" Q could be defeated by Jedi or Sith. Some are outright convinced, others not.

I personally suspect Q would mop the floor with either. He's demostrated the capability to toss a starship 7000 lightyears in about 30 seconds, demostated what seems like practical time manipulation, can stand out in open space and enjoy the view with no apparent protection, has appeared as what could be described as an energy entity, created immense containements fields that imprison starships, apparently shrinks a starship to subatomic size, etc, etc.

So far, the limitations of Q's power is as of yet undetermined.

[Glocksman]

Remember that both the Emperor and Yoda are neither omnipotent nor immortal.

Q is both.

Q would wipe the floor with both Yoda and Palpatine.

Literally.

He'd snap his fingers and change Yoda into a mop bucket and Palpy into a stringy mop.

[Mr Bean]

As has been discussed before Q is either a Godlike extremtly powerful being or a real big faker with very advanced tecnology plus very powerful mind manipulation(VERY powerful without the Jedi
"only weak minds" thing)

Either options means easy victory for Q

[Zoink]

Remember that both the Emperor and Yoda are neither omnipotent nor immortal.

Q is both.

I know what you mean, but, the Q are not omnipotent and can die.

[Lord Pounder]

Gods forgive me for watching Voyager but i seem to remember Janeways crew putting several holes in quite a few Q. Omnipotent, Imortal people don't die.

[The Nomad]

Gods forgive me for watching Voyager but i seem to remember Janeways crew putting several holes in quite a few Q. Omnipotent, Imortal people don't die.

They had entered the Q Continuum, and were given the possibility to act like Qs within it, and since Qs can execute other Qs ( evidence : "Death Wish" ). I don't think Q would give Q powers to Palpy or Yoda, nor will he make them enter the continuum, unless he want to give them a chance to hurt him.
"Omnipotent" isn't appropriate, they're just "incredibly fuckin' powerful". ( see Quinn's comments in "Death Wish" ).

The mere word "immortal" doesn't truly refer to the ability to be eternal, but to the fact that you aren't a "mortal" ( Connor MacLeod was "immortal", the Elves are "immortal", and yet... ).

[Glocksman]

Gods forgive me for watching Voyager but i seem to remember Janeways crew putting several holes in quite a few Q. Omnipotent, Imortal people don't die.

I wasn't aware of that because I only watched about 4 episodes of Voyager before I decided it sucked ass..

Encounter at Farpoint Q is the one I'm thinking of.

[nightmare]

Gods forgive me for watching Voyager but i seem to remember Janeways crew putting several holes in quite a few Q. Omnipotent, Imortal people don't die.

They had entered the Q Continuum, and were given the possibility to act like Qs within it, and since Qs can execute other Qs ( evidence : "Death Wish" ). I don't think Q would give Q powers to Palpy or Yoda, nor will he make them enter the continuum, unless he want to give them a chance to hurt him.
"Omnipotent" isn't appropriate, they're just "incredibly fuckin' powerful". ( see Quinn's comments in "Death Wish" ).

The mere word "immortal" doesn't truly refer to the ability to be eternal, but to the fact that you aren't a "mortal" ( Connor MacLeod was "immortal", the Elves are "immortal", and yet... ).

This is one of the Voyager episodes I actually watched, "The Q and the Grey."

Voyager's crew didn't get any Q powers. It was said "They're only humans, but they carry our weapons." (May not be exact quote, it's from memory only, but I'm positive it was said.) It significantly proves that Q's can be killed by weapons that create supernovas in the normal dimension, which in turn implies that any weapon or force with similar power can kill Q. Besides, the supernovae might not have been the result of Q "rifles", it could have been Q "cannons".

That and other events (Guinan, anyone? The Q that chose to die?) proves abundantly clear that the Q is overrated, and in fact seem to be exactly what the federation sees them as; powerful and disturbing aliens.

Several things in the EU reaches that level of power. Draw your own conclusions, nothing is certain.

[Slartibartfast]

Q makes Vader and Palpatine appear in a ring, and starts teasing them a lot. Palpatine hits Q with lightning and then Vader lights his saber and chops his arm off. Q looks at them, shocked, and says "Picard would have never done that!". Vader and Palpatine will say "We aren't that Picard fellow you talk about", and Q will make a sneering face and say "Then more fun for me" (implying that he will mess with them a lot because they aren't pushovers like Picard). That said, he will never bother either Vader or Palpatine ever again.

Proof: Deep Space 9 fight with Sisko.

[Admiral_K]

It may be that Q's powers would not work on Jedi/Sith if they were protected by the Force somehow.

As far as, nothing being able to fight them,

We also don't know what sort of powers Jedi that have "passed on" may possess. Obi Wan said he would become "more powerful" than Vader could possibly imagine. While he never directly interferes in any events, he may not do so because it is the will of the force that he not do so. We know he is not strictly bound to luke, because besides interaction with him he also interacts with Yoda actually having a conversation with him.

[Yogi]

Voyager's crew didn't get any Q powers. It was said "They're only humans, but they carry our weapons." (May not be exact quote, it's from memory only, but I'm positive it was said.) It significantly proves that Q's can be killed by weapons that create supernovas in the normal dimension, which in turn implies that any weapon or force with similar power can kill Q. Besides, the supernovae might not have been the result of Q "rifles", it could have been Q "cannons".

The supernovae was the result of the conflict going on in the continum. There is nothing that says the weapon actually causes the supernovae. In fact, it is implied that they are little rips in space-time that happen because the continum is "burning" according to Q. Voyager sailed though one of the supermovae to reach the Q continum. This is just a side effect of the war, not the primary effect.

[Yogi]

It may be that Q's powers would not work on Jedi/Sith if they were protected by the Force somehow.

In Death Wish, a Q was able to send Voyager and all it's inhabitents to the beginning of the universe, shrink it to a subatomic particle, and turns it into a Christmas orniment. The inhabitents include Kes, a being with VERY powerful latent psychic powers.

[Superman]

Look, as much as I like the Jedi, I would have to say that NONE are a match fo Q. I mean, compare the abilities that Q has demonstrated with that of the Jedi. The Jedi are warriors with a spiritual twist, while the Q are basically godlike beings that have few, if any, limitations.

No way any Jedi could take on a Q. The Q seem to be too damn powerful.

[Darth_Nader]

yeah but what to say if palpatine and yoda just drain the essence from Q, That is a Sith power.

[Yogi]

yeah but what to say if palpatine and yoda just drain the essence from Q, That is a Sith power.

Q responds by sending them both to the beginning of the universe, sans spaceship, and leaving them there.

[Darth_Nader]

how can he do that when ne is no more

[nightmare]

Voyager's crew didn't get any Q powers. It was said "They're only humans, but they carry our weapons." (May not be exact quote, it's from memory only, but I'm positive it was said.) It significantly proves that Q's can be killed by weapons that create supernovas in the normal dimension, which in turn implies that any weapon or force with similar power can kill Q. Besides, the supernovae might not have been the result of Q "rifles", it could have been Q "cannons".

The supernovae was the result of the conflict going on in the continum. There is nothing that says the weapon actually causes the supernovae. In fact, it is implied that they are little rips in space-time that happen because the continum is "burning" according to Q. Voyager sailed though one of the supermovae to reach the Q continum. This is just a side effect of the war, not the primary effect.

Your opinion, and I respect that, but it's just opinion.

What caused the "burning in the continuum", if not the use of Q weapons. It's a typical war paraphrase. The primary intention of the weapons are to kill Q, we see in the "real" world stars blowing up because of the war. I think we definitely can say the weapons employed caused it.

If they didn't need the weapons, they wouldn't use them. Obviously the Q are no where near what some people claim them to be, gods.

As I mentioned before, this is further illustrated by Q being intimidated by Guinan, who'se race was nearly wiped out by the Borg.. personally, I think what Q feared in her was her ability to look into alternative timelimes.. that's most likely the real power of the Q, and I say it is an effect of thier living in the "continuum", since Q can be surprised outside of it.

Plus of course, the Q fearing that humanity may surpass them one day.. for a race where time has no meaning, that would count as an immediate threat.

Again, they're powerful aliens, but that's it. I for one is certain that mere humans can kill them with powerful enough weapons.. and those weapons exhibit the strenght of supernovae as far as we can tell.

[Darth Yoshi]

yeah but what to say if palpatine and yoda just drain the essence from Q, That is a Sith power.

Do you have any idea how long that would take? Q won't just sit there and let the essence be drained from him, you know.

[Yogi]

Your opinion, and I respect that, but it's just opinion.

What caused the "burning in the continuum", if not the use of Q weapons. It's a typical war paraphrase. The primary intention of the weapons are to kill Q, we see in the "real" world stars blowing up because of the war. I think we definitely can say the weapons employed caused it.

Q stated that the Continum was being ripped apart by the conflict, and the "representation" that was shown was of fire and burning. Of course, the chaos was caused by the war, fought by weapons. However, it's not the direct cause of the weapon itself.

Even if the weapons DID cause it, so what? When we hear a people shooting guns in the distance, the sound waves that reach our ears are caused by the weapons. However, it is foolish to compare the strength of the bullet to the strength of the sound that reaches our ears.

If they didn't need the weapons, they wouldn't use them. Obviously the Q are no where near what some people claim them to be, gods.

The Q made the weapons. Why wouldn't gods need weapons when fighting other weually powerful beings?

Plus of course, the Q fearing that humanity may surpass them one day.. for a race where time has no meaning, that would count as an immediate threat.

Where did you get that from? Q was going to destroy humanity twice, and could have done so easily.

Again, they're powerful aliens, but that's it. I for one is certain that mere humans can kill them with powerful enough weapons.. and those weapons exhibit the strenght of supernovae as far as we can tell.

I shoot someone with a gun. Fifty feet away, someone heard it. He concludes that the strength of the bullet was equal to the strength of the sound wave hitting his ear.

Q shoots Q with a Q-gun. Several dimensions away, a star goes supernova. Nightmare concludes that the gun is as powerful as a supernova.

[nightmare]

Your opinion, and I respect that, but it's just opinion.

What caused the "burning in the continuum", if not the use of Q weapons. It's a typical war paraphrase. The primary intention of the weapons are to kill Q, we see in the "real" world stars blowing up because of the war. I think we definitely can say the weapons employed caused it.

Q stated that the Continum was being ripped apart by the conflict, and the "representation" that was shown was of fire and burning. Of course, the chaos was caused by the war, fought by weapons. However, it's not the direct cause of the weapon itself.

Even if the weapons DID cause it, so what? When we hear a people shooting guns in the distance, the sound waves that reach our ears are caused by the weapons. However, it is foolish to compare the strength of the bullet to the strength of the sound that reaches our ears.

If they didn't need the weapons, they wouldn't use them. Obviously the Q are no where near what some people claim them to be, gods.

The Q made the weapons. Why wouldn't gods need weapons when fighting other weually powerful beings?

Plus of course, the Q fearing that humanity may surpass them one day.. for a race where time has no meaning, that would count as an immediate threat.

Where did you get that from? Q was going to destroy humanity twice, and could have done so easily.

Again, they're powerful aliens, but that's it. I for one is certain that mere humans can kill them with powerful enough weapons.. and those weapons exhibit the strenght of supernovae as far as we can tell.

I shoot someone with a gun. Fifty feet away, someone heard it. He concludes that the strength of the bullet was equal to the strength of the sound wave hitting his ear.

Q shoots Q with a Q-gun. Several dimensions away, a star goes supernova. Nightmare concludes that the gun is as powerful as a supernova.

1 & 3: You're saying "but they could be much more powerful than that." in the "real world" dimension, they display no more power than supernovae. If you fired a Q-gun in the "real world", it might not cause any damage at all! I don't invent stuff out of thin air.

Besides, you wouldn't consider the sound of a bullet actual damage, would you? Exploding stars, however..

2: It's from TNG. Picard accused the Q of being fearful that humanity could eventually surpass the Q, and Q didn't deny it convincingly. Yes, Q was about to wipe out humanity twice. Maybe you should stop to think about why the Q seriously considered that. It is in itself positive proof that the Q considered humanity a potential threat.

Absolutely nothing proves the Q to be of anything near god-like stature. Join the Dark Side instead, we have more fun. [/i]

[Yogi]

1 & 3: You're saying "but they could be much more powerful than that." in the "real world" dimension, they display no more power than supernovae. If you fired a Q-gun in the "real world", it might not cause any damage at all! I don't invent stuff out of thin air.

Besides, you wouldn't consider the sound of a bullet actual damage, would you? Exploding stars, however..

I'm saying that the weapons cause various effects, one of them is hurting other Q, another are stars going Nova. Now what type of weapon would deal as much damage to something several dimensions away, rather than at it's current target?

Perhaps you will next try to claim that hearing a gun go off and being hit by the bullet is the same thing.

2: It's from TNG. Picard accused the Q of being fearful that humanity could eventually surpass the Q, and Q didn't deny it convincingly. Yes, Q was about to wipe out humanity twice. Maybe you should stop to think about why the Q seriously considered that. It is in itself positive proof that the Q considered humanity a potential threat.

Q SAID why they wanted to wipe out humanity, because of their inferior moral character.

Absolutely nothing proves the Q to be of anything near god-like stature. Join the Dark Side instead, we have more fun.

Yeah, and Vader doesn't REALLY force choke. He, uh, hace a bunch of hidden miniature tractor beams built into his glove, yeah!
Please, you're taking on screen and spoken evidence and twisting it around every which way to try and de-power the Q. The thing known as "burden of proof" has just dropped onto your lap.

[TheDarkling]

I doubt Q trying to destroy humanity was out of fear or else they would have just gone through with it and had done with us, it was probably something to do with their judgement ego trip.

On the issue of humanity surpassing Q.

RIKER

Eons! Have you any idea how far
we'll advance?

"Q" (COMMANDER)
Perhaps in a future you cannot
yet conceive...
even beyond us.
And so, we must know more about
the human condition. We have
selected you, Riker, to become
part of the "Q"... to bring that
human need and hunger to us so
that we may understand it.

[jegs2]

I place Q in with what I call the Enigma Demigod Super Races. He and his ilk are the Trekkies version of the Ace in the hole. When a SW debater is laying down sound arguments for the vast superiority of the SW universe over the Trek universe, a Trekkie will invaribly whip out the Enigma Demigod Super Race of choice and say, "And thus the ST galaxy will easily whip the SW galaxy..."

A more fair comparison would be Q or another member of the Enigma Demigod Super Race's versus the Culture. There, I think even the mighty Q would meet his match (or demise).

[Darth Wong]

Q was afraid of Whoopi Goldberg.