Anyone notice how fundies are prone to conspiracy BS?

[Superman]

I have often hear fundies, like Hovind, Gish, etc., spout off about how HIV does not cause AIDS, how 911 was a conspiracy, how the government is hiding everything from UFO's to Bigfoot...

Am I wrong here? Is this just more evidence of their prevailing thought disorder?

[General Zod]

Because if they can't explain it, then there must be something greater and more ominous going on behind the scenes beyond their comprehension. Instead of them, you know, simply being too stupid to understand what's actually happening.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

I have often hear fundies, like Hovind, Gish, etc., spout off about how HIV does not cause AIDS, how 911 was a conspiracy, how the government is hiding everything from UFO's to Bigfoot...

Am I wrong here? Is this just more evidence of their prevailing thought disorder?

This is symptomatic of the fundamentalist mindset. After all, to be a fundamentalist requires that one be capable of accepting things on authority and faith alone. This breeds a lot of ignorance and general lack of education, which also puts them in direct opposition to traditional authority and the things which support traditional authority, such as the natural sciences.

As a result, they tend to take to various tinfoil hat conspiracy-theories like ducks to water. Likewise, tinfoil hat conspiracy theories pander to the poorly educated people who are apt to accept things at face-value, or on faith and authority alone. Not to mention as they generally flaunt traditional authority or science, it is pounced upon by fundamentalists as another prop to support their world-view.

[Frank Hipper]

When everything you publicly support furthers your own conspiratorial agenda, of course you're going to find conspiracies everywhere:

Shriek about "Activist Judges" in while placing true activist judges on the bench.

Condemn science as unproven in order to place theology in classroom.

Belittle and poison the well on evidence for the human contribution to global warming in order to maintain the corporate status quo.

Of course fundies are conspiracy loons; "We do it, therefore everyone else does it too!"

[dworkin]

When you believe that the entire universe is being manipulated by shadowy supernatural entites, the idea that they have shadowy mortal agents manipulating things is not that big a jump.

[Wicked Pilot]

Every wacho group has their different conspiracies. Fundies have the Jews and UN running the world, hippies have the 9/11 conspiracies, libertarians have big brother related myths, blacks have conspiracies about 'the man' and KFC, whites have UFOs, ghosts, and Elvis, and Canadians have the abominable snowman. Frankly the stupidity goes all around, but when it comes to believing the earth is 6000 years old one particular group dwarfs the rest by quite a large number. At least the Raliens and the Scientologist haven't managed to get UFOs in science class.

[Pelranius]

Fortunately, only 8% (I might be misquoting the number) of Americans have a favorable view of scientology. I hope it stays that way.

[Superman]

I have often hear fundies, like Hovind, Gish, etc., spout off about how HIV does not cause AIDS, how 911 was a conspiracy, how the government is hiding everything from UFO's to Bigfoot...

Am I wrong here? Is this just more evidence of their prevailing thought disorder?

This is symptomatic of the fundamentalist mindset. After all, to be a fundamentalist requires that one be capable of accepting things on authority and faith alone. This breeds a lot of ignorance and general lack of education, which also puts them in direct opposition to traditional authority and the things which support traditional authority, such as the natural sciences.

As a result, they tend to take to various tinfoil hat conspiracy-theories like ducks to water. Likewise, tinfoil hat conspiracy theories pander to the poorly educated people who are apt to accept things at face-value, or on faith and authority alone. Not to mention as they generally flaunt traditional authority or science, it is pounced upon by fundamentalists as another prop to support their world-view.

I agree. It just seems like fundies have a drive to spew off about this crap. They spend an awful lot of time and energy going into this kind of stuff, explaining it, etc... They have a lot more energy than most people have for getting into it.

Here's an interesting sidebar; I do know of a person admitted into a psychiatric hospital for threatening suicide while in a psychotic state. He has a history of conspiracy driven thinking, paranoid delusions, etc. When he started medication, these thoughts 'magically' disappeared and he is doing pretty well in his treatment. I just wonder how close the fundies are to a situation like this.

[Ariphaos]

I have often hear fundies, like Hovind, Gish, etc., spout off about how HIV does not cause AIDS, how 911 was a conspiracy, how the government is hiding everything from UFO's to Bigfoot...

Am I wrong here? Is this just more evidence of their prevailing thought disorder?

No, there is a very strong correlation between fundamentalism and schizophrenia. Seeing patterns where their aren't any is one of the signs of the disorder. The same goes with having conversations with aliens/imaginary friends/Jesus/whatever, and a general feel of paranoia.

[Darth Wong]

All you need in order to simultaneously subscribe to fundamentalism and conspiracy theories is a really poor grasp of logic. It's not like it's a big leap to go from one to the other, because they rely on a lot of the same fallacies, particularly dismissing scientific knowledge because it is not perfect and dismissing "official explanations" because they are accepted.

[Superman]

All you need in order to simultaneously subscribe to fundamentalism and conspiracy theories is a really poor grasp of logic. It's not like it's a big leap to go from one to the other, because they rely on a lot of the same fallacies, particularly dismissing scientific knowledge because it is not perfect and dismissing "official explanations" because they are accepted.

Totally agree, but, at least in my experience, it's more than just ignorance. They seem to have a drive to make this kind of shit their life's mission. It's like they have a ton of energy behind it.

[Darth Wong]

All you need in order to simultaneously subscribe to fundamentalism and conspiracy theories is a really poor grasp of logic. It's not like it's a big leap to go from one to the other, because they rely on a lot of the same fallacies, particularly dismissing scientific knowledge because it is not perfect and dismissing "official explanations" because they are accepted.

Totally agree, but, at least in my experience, it's more than just ignorance. They seem to have a drive to make this kind of shit their life's mission. It's like they have a ton of energy behind it.

Sure there is. They dislike the experts. Whether this is due to intellectual jealousy or some other psychological neurosis is not important; the point is that they harbour an active dislike of qualified experts, and take great pride in being able to humiliate them in their minds by putting words in their mouths and then triumphantly showing them in absentia how they're wrong.

Look at the Chick Tract, which exists primarily to humiliate experts in absentia by portraying them as the blundering idiots that the fundies so desperately wish they were. When the experts explain something, the fundie is driven to prove how superior he is by dismissing the experts and then concocting his own "superior" theory. That's why one of the warning signs of pseudoscience, conspiracy theory bullshit, or fundie stupidity is always the tendency to attack the experts.

[wautd]

I have often hear fundies, like Hovind, Gish, etc., spout off about how HIV does not cause AIDS, how 911 was a conspiracy, how the government is hiding everything from UFO's to Bigfoot...

Oh yes. I could give plenty of examples but the forum is in dutch

[wautd]

I have often hear fundies, like Hovind, Gish, etc., spout off about how HIV does not cause AIDS, how 911 was a conspiracy, how the government is hiding everything from UFO's to Bigfoot...

Oh yes. I could give plenty of examples but the forum is in dutch

To elaborate further: the scientists are either:

- not open minded enough
- in some kind of conspiracy
- are unknowingly mind-controlled slaves from the illuminati (oh yes, I'm not joking)

[K. A. Pital]

Come on! Fundies believe all scientists in the world are in a grand atheist conspiracy to cover up the falseness of the theory of evolution... that's a 1000-times more retarded than a conspiracy theory involving the government, that's just fucking insane...

And you're saying "prone to"? Conspiracy theories are required for fundie dogmas to stand in the eyes of the followers, so they're simply a by-definition attribute!

[Darth Wong]

Fundie conspiracy theorists basically approach things from the mindset of assuming that scientific education is just like religious indoctrination, hence it is a form of brainwashing (ironically, they do not realize what they are inadvertently saying about religion). Their opinion is not shaken at all by the fact that science has a formal methodology for establishing the accuracy of its ideas (unlike religion, which has no such methodology) and relies on observations for its premises (unlike religion, which relies on dreams and visions).

Once they've dismissed all of science and all of its experts in this manner, they are free to basically make up whatever they want. The really odd thing, however, is that they accept parts of science anyway, and they will usually (and clumsily) try to use parts of science to disprove other parts. They generally make horrendous mistakes while doing so, but anybody who points out these mistakes can be ignored because he obviously had too much scientific education, hence he is part of the system.

In a way, they are approaching science the same way they approach the Bible; they simply pick and choose the parts of it that they want to accept. Fundies angrily accuse religious moderates of doing this but they do it too; they simply pick different things to accept or reject. Even the most rabid fundie will inevitably come upon a passage of the Bible that he doesn't really obey or accept, so he'll just make up bullshit reasons why he doesn't have to. Probably the best example is Jesus' attitudes about generosity to the poor and the sinfulness of wealth (not to mention "turn the other cheek"), which are broadly rejected in the American fundamentalist movement. "Oh, but the parable of the talents means that Jesus wants me to invest in the stock market!"

[FTeik]

It is logical from the fundie-POV, that there is a great, sinister conspiracy at work:

They have god on their side, but the world is still different from the way it should be (translated: how they want the world to be). So somebody has to be working against gods will.

[Surlethe]

The greatest fundie conspiracy theory is the idea that everything in the universe is part of a great struggle between good and evil: the assertion that there exists a malevolent force whose sole purpose is to cause trouble, pain, and suffering for humans. Once you subscribe to the hypothesis that anything with which you disagree is inspired (directly or indirectly) by Satan in order to cause trouble for you, it's not difficult to assert that events which appear to conspire were, in fact, orchestrated. Whether they were orchestrated supernaturally or naturally is often beside the point; the fact is, they appear (and thus were) purposeful.

[Darth Wong]

Interestingly enough, American dietary fads also reflect Judeo-Christian thinking. Rather than view food intake as a matter of proportion and balance, the pathological behaviour of the overweight American is to try and figure out which foods are "good" and which ones are "bad", and then completely cut the "bad" ones out of their diet while figuring that it's OK to go to town on the "good" foods.

Proportion and balance are a very Buddhist way of thinking, but dividing everything up in good vs evil? That's Biblical all the way, baby. And yes, the Bible literally did that with food, so anybody accusing me of drawing an untenable parallel has his work cut out for him.

[Admiral Valdemar]

How about the still abundant interest in astrology and the rise in "alternative" medicine involving quackery? We certainly see both around the globe, so I expect that's mainly down to masses of humans simply disliking there being a rational, scientific reasoning behind how events pan out or how to remedy ailments.

Far nicer to imagine there's a fate, of sorts to absolve one of responsibility and that if modern medicine fails, you can rely on millenia old techniques that, obviously, could cure everything if only those damn M.D.s and Big Pharma allowed it to thrive.

[Setesh]

Strangly this came up on a differant forum. One of the webcomics I read has the occasional 'author rant' strip. (found Here ) This set off a massive discussion in the comicgenesis forum and led to this post

But, let us take a step back. We see that in the absence of democracy, a majority can certainly be oppressed by a minority. That fact is plainly expressed in the discarded systems of feudalism and monarchy, wherein a few lords and kings rule over serfs and peasants. What insight does this offer into the question at hand? Merely to illustrate a historical precedent for the oppression of a majority by a minority. Where it applies in our modern society is what I propose to examine next.

So, in a democracy, to oppress the majority, you must simply find away around democracy. You must, in short, resort to some less than democratic means to achieve your goals. I contend that such means are exactly those employed against Christians. The methods are much the same as they were in the days of feudalism.

First, if you want to set an elite minority above the majority, then seek for yourself special protections and special status under the law, using whatever pretense you can find. Because most people are not inclined to raise the black flag and start slitting throats at the first sign of tyranny, they are likely to accept injustice so long as it's official, legal injustice.

Second, manipulate cultural expression to make yourself seem better than the majority. Portray the majority as destructive buffoons in fiction, and slant news coverage of them the same way. It's all the more effective if you can create sympathy on the part of the majority, or in other words get the very people you're trying to suppress on board with your propaganda against them.

Finally, it's rather hard to get any legislation against a majority, even using the above methods, so focus on the least accountable authority to secure the legal clout you need. In the case of the USA, that's the judicial branch. It's much easier to pack the courts with your shills and idealogical cronies than to pack the legislature with the same, at least for any length of time.

The above comprises the recipe of various anti-Christian organizations for doing an end-run around democracy, and forcing the world view of a minority upon the majority. They may not always command the government, but they don't need to -- commanding education and the media (which they do in spades) is a surer bet in the long run. After all, the philosophy of the schoolroom in one generation will be the philosophy of government in the next. They are smart enough to know that if they can control what people see and hear and learn, then the political battle is secondary, and will be won in due time anyway.

In a perfect democracy, an elite minority cannot oppress a majority. But our democracy, while great, is not perfect.

Incidentally, I do not blame the anti-Christians for this state of affairs -- I blame Christians. The elites and their followers mistakenly believe we want to play the victim -- they complain about that because as far as they are concerned that's their little schtick, and it's no fair of us to steal it. This is part of why we will win -- because the other side does not even begin to understand us. We don't want to be victims, because unlike them we don't buy this silly aristocracy of failure, weakness, and mediocrity where victimhood is some kind of twisted nobility. We want to cultivate a culture of victors, not a culture of victims.

But we have been lax, we have been apathetic. In spite of everything, we have more capability than we are using, far more. We let this happen. Fortunately, the trend is shifting. You see, the "whining" you hear is actually a yawn -- unfortunately for our enemies, we are waking up from our too-long sleep. We are about to get to work, and we have a lot of lost time to make up for.

Yay for vast conspiracies of unconnected people to 'oppress' the majority in this country.

[cadbrowser]

I have been trying to figure out if this statement is true, or if it is just one of those "conspiricy theories".

The statement is:

For all of the synthesized (or artificial) medication out on the market, there is a something similiar in nature without side effects. The reason the big drug companies won't go to "nature" is because you cannot patent a natural process. So they would lose money.

Any help with this would be wonderfu.

Something else with regards to the whole good vs evil thing. If there is only one true God, then what is up with Satan? That would be another god...right? What about the angels and demons? Those would be lesser gods, but still gods nonetheless.

More logic that convinces me that this whole God, gods, goddesses, fairies, elves, and etc is all superstitious crap.

[Superman]

I have been trying to figure out if this statement is true, or if it is just one of those "conspiricy theories".

The statement is:

For all of the synthesized (or artificial) medication out on the market, there is a something similiar in nature without side effects. The reason the big drug companies won't go to "nature" is because you cannot patent a natural process. So they would lose money.

Any help with this would be wonderfu.

Something else with regards to the whole good vs evil thing. If there is only one true God, then what is up with Satan? That would be another god...right? What about the angels and demons? Those would be lesser gods, but still gods nonetheless.

More logic that convinces me that this whole God, gods, goddesses, fairies, elves, and etc is all superstitious crap.

Conspiracy theory bullshit. Let's see: how many people today die of plagues that wiped out huge chunks of entire populations before vaccines were invented? Chewing on some root or eating a mushroom isn't going to do what antibiotics do, either.

There's a reason why people today are reaching 100 in age. Monks praying over a sick person, using some kind of 'natural' cure, etc., doesn't compare to what clinicians use today.

By the way, bird shit is natural, so does that mean it's healthy? I'm so tired of this "it's natural therefore it's good for you" bullshit. Try drinking snake venom or eating poisonous mushrooms. They're natural too.

I'm not saying that the pharmaceutical industry isn't out for money. Don't get me wrong. I'm just saying to do the research and find out for yourself. Read the studies. Look at each disease/pathology separately and find out about treatment. Watch the "South Park" episode on alternative medicine, too.

And about Satan... Yeah, you're basically correct. And how about this? He must be the stupidest being ever created to revolt against a god of unlimited power. What the hell was he thinking? And can he be forgiven? Is that a limit to god's forgiveness? Did got predetermine these events to be a dick?

[Superman]

By the way cad, you might want to read this. It seems that 'alternative medicine' (which is a 15+ billion dollar per year business) isn't quite as altruistic as they might have you believe.

Here

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

I have been trying to figure out if this statement is true, or if it is just one of those "conspiricy theories".

The statement is:

For all of the synthesized (or artificial) medication out on the market, there is a something similiar in nature without side effects. The reason the big drug companies won't go to "nature" is because you cannot patent a natural process. So they would lose money.

By and large, most so-called "alternative"-medicine is complete quackery. Sure, a naturopath or homeopath might give you a treatment which might make you feel better, and carries no side-effects, but that's because his or her treatment isn't actually doing anything. The perception of wellness is due to the well-documented placebo effect, and the underlying cause of your problems isn't actually being treated.

And the statement about drug-companies not going to nature is patently wrong and intentionally misleading. Pharmeceutical companies employ hordes of biochemists who extensively research chemical or biological processes from nature which may have salutory effects on people. And one can generate many patents from nature, be they from patenting the process by which one extracts the medicinal substances from natural sources, or by figuring out how to synthesize it in a lab, and patenting that method.