Dark Jedi

[Darth Judas]

I have some questions about Dark Jedi. (I've only read a couple of the SW novels, so I really don't know much about what's occured in the EU. I never was a big fan of reading novels based on a visual series.)

1. Where did Dark Jedi come from?

2. Are they inherintly evil, like the Sith? (For that matter, is "Dark Jedi" just another term for "Sith?")

3. What are some notable Dark Jedi, and what have they done?

4. Are there "Grey" Jedi? If yes, what is the differences and relationships between Dark, Grey, and regular Jedi?

I'm sorry if there's already a topic about this. I tried doing a search, but my search skills suck.

[AK_Jedi]

1. Most, if not all are fallen jedi, jedi that have gone to the dark side and left the order.

2. They are all evil, though a few have redeemed themselves. Dark Jedi are not inherently sith, since the sith are more like an organization than just a morality and way of using the force.

4. There are a few "Grey" Jedi, Quinlon Vos springs to mind as the most obvious. Grey usually stay with the Jedi. The Jedi seem to be fairly lenient about Greys, hoping that they will come back fully to the light side.

[Darth Judas]

Okay, thanks.

Well, that leads to another question... Is their any type of Jedi (or, simply, "force user") that utilizes the Dark Side, but uses it for good?

[Sarevok]

Kyle Katarn uses the dark side of the force. He also asks his students like Jaden to do the same. His idea is a force power is not dark or light by itself. How a power is used is what matters in his way of thinking.

[Darth Judas]

Ah, yes, I'm familiar with that. I have Jedi Academy I. That's kinda the mind-set I'm looking for... One that regards the Force as a tool, a tool which is neither good nor evil, but rather the actions it is used for is what makes it "good" or "evil." However, I simply don't know enough about the whole subject.

[AK_Jedi]

IIRC, the "New Jedi Order" books have the "potentium" or something that treats the force as a united force with no inherent good or bad side. Subscibers to this viewpoint include Jacen Solo, Vergere, and the inhabitants of Zonama Sekot.

I haven't read those books in a long time, and I haven't read the more recent ones, so I may be off on a couple things.

[000]

Dark Jedi is merely a term for a Jedi who dabbles in the Dark Side. Definitionally, a Dark Jedi must have spent at least a few years as at least a Jedi padawan; homegrown darksiders like Nightsisters would not technically be Dark Jedi, although I believe the term has been used very loosely on occasion.

Some Sith could be considered Dark Jedi as well, since they're former Jedi: Anakin Skywalker and Count Dooku would be Dark Jedi in addition to Sith Lords, while Marka Ragnos or Darth Bane would not.

A few notable Dark Jedi who are not additionally Sith are Joruus C'Baoth, Volfe Karkko, and Brakiss.

Grey Jedi do exist, by they are not in any way related to Dark Jedi. The term is merely used to describe Jedi who ignore the Council; while sometimes maverick, they do not use the Dark Side in any fashion and are little different from mainstream Jedi. Qui-Gon Ginn, Thracia Cho Leem, and Djinn Altis could all be considered "Grey Jedi," although not all have been speifically named as such in the canon. Quinlan Vos, in contrast, is not a Grey Jedi.

The Potentium is a heretical school of thought that postulates the Force lacks any literal external Light and Dark sides; followers claim that any distinction is purely internal. Whether or not this is true is debatable, although to date Kyle Katarn is the only Force user to follow this school of thought without coming close to falling to the Dark Side. Notable believers in the Potentium also include Palpatine, Vergere, and, for a time, Jacen Solo.

[CDiehl]

Well, that leads to another question... Is their any type of Jedi (or, simply, "force user") that utilizes the Dark Side, but uses it for good?

Can you get a little pregnant? What good can you do that justifies using the Force to inflict pain and ruin just because you find it convenient? The Dark Side is the ultimate lazy shortcut, and all it accomplishes is to hurt another. You may convince yourself that you did it for some imagined "greater good," but that doesn't unmake the temptation to do the same whenever it's convenient or whenever you just feel like it.

[Darth Judas]

Well, that leads to another question... Is their any type of Jedi (or, simply, "force user") that utilizes the Dark Side, but uses it for good?

Can you get a little pregnant? What good can you do that justifies using the Force to inflict pain and ruin just because you find it convenient? The Dark Side is the ultimate lazy shortcut, and all it accomplishes is to hurt another. You may convince yourself that you did it for some imagined "greater good," but that doesn't unmake the temptation to do the same whenever it's convenient or whenever you just feel like it.

If one's goal is hatred-driven revenge, they can use the Drak Side (I think). But because they desire revenge, does not mean that they will cause injury against innocents.

[Sam Or I]

Ah, yes, I'm familiar with that. I have Jedi Academy I. That's kinda the mind-set I'm looking for... One that regards the Force as a tool, a tool which is neither good nor evil, but rather the actions it is used for is what makes it "good" or "evil." However, I simply don't know enough about the whole subject.

I do not know that much of the EU. But isn't that the Siths philosophy ? The force is a tool, while a Jedi is a tool of the force?

[Ritterin Sophia]

Exactly, Vergere was trained in the ways of the Sith, she told Jacen everything she would teach him was a lie, and then she taught him of the Potentium.

[Crazedwraith]

Exactly, Vergere was trained in the ways of the Sith, she told Jacen everything she would teach him was a lie, and then she taught him of the Potentium.

Was the Established post-NJO? Everything i've read seems to indicate she was legitamtely and old republic Jedi.

[Ritterin Sophia]

I can't remember which book, but, Lumiya told Jacen that Vergere practiced things outside the approved Jedi doctrine and even studied under Palpatine for a short time, although she tried to kill him, which probably means she hadn’t fallen entirely, yet.

[Tychu]

IIRC, the "New Jedi Order" books have the "potentium" or something that treats the force as a united force with no inherent good or bad side. Subscibers to this viewpoint include Jacen Solo, Vergere, and the inhabitants of Zonama Sekot.

I haven't read those books in a long time, and I haven't read the more recent ones, so I may be off on a couple things.

i tried to explain this in a thread started about 3 years ago, where i debated with one of our SD.neters about the use of the force (i forgot their name, im pretty sure it was of our fairer sexed ....bretheren?)

but yes i remember that not only is this Potentium in the NJO but Anakin and Obi-Wan come across them in Rouge Planet, the Jedi Order really doesnt like or trust this group, mainly for their Religious beliefs

the Potentium teachers thier students that the Force itself is not good or evil, it is only the user of the force's desire and what they want to accomplish and how to do this (kinda Machiavellian)

[MarshalFoch]

Well, that leads to another question... Is their any type of Jedi (or, simply, "force user") that utilizes the Dark Side, but uses it for good?

Can you get a little pregnant? What good can you do that justifies using the Force to inflict pain and ruin just because you find it convenient? The Dark Side is the ultimate lazy shortcut, and all it accomplishes is to hurt another. You may convince yourself that you did it for some imagined "greater good," but that doesn't unmake the temptation to do the same whenever it's convenient or whenever you just feel like it.

Well, Revan fell to the Dark Side, but he may have been doing it to preserve the Galaxy from what he thought was a greater threat that he found in the Unknown Regions, perhaps the ancient Sith Empire. Of course, this is speculation.

[Kurgan]

Kyle Katarn uses the dark side of the force. He also asks his students like Jaden to do the same. His idea is a force power is not dark or light by itself. How a power is used is what matters in his way of thinking.

He did not! Yes, he did fall to the Dark Side in Mysteries of the Sith, and was brought back by Mara Jade (or if you chose the Dark Side ending in Jedi Knight, which would be a parallel timeline, since it wouldn't mesh with the two sequels and the expansion pack).

He did NOT ask Jaden and his students to use the Dark Side. Rather he said that force POWERS are not inherently "Dark" or "Light" but it's how you use them that matters.

So he meant that you can use Lightning, Grip, Drain, Dark Rage and still be good. And you can use Protect, Heal, Absorb, and Mind Trick and still be evil. Not that you can freely use the Dark Side, and still be a faithful and loyal Jedi Knight.

So the bolded parts were correct, the rest were not. Currently, Kyle Katarn is not using the Dark Side, but the Light (in the main continuity, as opposed to the alternate "what if" established in the Dark Side ending of JK1).


As far as Kyle's adventures outside the video games, IIRC, the novellas only covered his adventures as an Imperial agent, Rebel mercenary and when he first became a Jedi (so the events of Dark Forces and Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight), not the events of MotS, JK2:JO or JK:JA. Was that adventure of his in "Star Wars Tales" canon or not?

Also, Vergere was full of crap I thought... Kyle Katarn certainly doesn't buy into the philosophy. He knows better than anyone that the Dark Side is real, and evil. In JA, he merely clarifies that those handful of powers are not ones only Sith/Dark Jedi are able to use, or that using them automatically turns you evil.

[Lex]

I can't remember which book, but, Lumiya told Jacen that Vergere practiced things outside the approved Jedi doctrine and even studied under Palpatine for a short time, although she tried to kill him, which probably means she hadn’t fallen entirely, yet.

Lumiya might be lying in order to lure Jacen deeper into the Dark Side...