Cool C&C 3 videos

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2006-12-05 04:31pm

Shit, I've not been able to turtle properly in a game since Red Alert 2 and TA and now they want more generals "one guy with a long range bazooka can take down your entire defensive structure city" shit? Ffs. I like building big fuckoff bases that are impenetrable to anything but the top of the tech tree.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-12-05 04:38pm

Trogdor wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:How fast do they want an RTS to be? It's C&C, not bloody Doom.
Pretty fast from what they've said in the podcasts. Stuff about how the game favors rushers over turtlers and the like is usually mentioned at some point in each podcast, IIRC. I their motto is "fast, fluid, fun," or something. As a turtler I actually find it rather distressing.

Oh for fuck sake they've been saying that since fucking Red Alert 2. Christ. This has got to be some sort of executive directive or something... "KIDS TODAY HAVE ADHD WE NEED OUR GAMES TO BE FASTER FASTER FASTER GOGOGOGOGO"

fucking EA

Setzer · Post by **Setzer** » 2006-12-05 07:57pm

Well, if turtling won't work in this game, Westwood just lost themselves a customer.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2006-12-05 08:11pm

Setzer wrote:Well, if turtling won't work in this game, Westwood just lost themselves a customer.

EA. Westwood is defunct AFAIK, and mostly exists in the form of Petroglyph (they did Empire at War).

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2006-12-05 09:42pm

Setzer wrote:Well, if turtling won't work in this game, Westwood just lost themselves a customer.

I never liked things that favored turtle strategies, but walls are an inoffensive passive defense that deserve to be put in any game, regardless of how fast. Removing the ability for one gank unit or an engineer to run in and kill all your stuff is perfectly reasonable. I'm still waiting for the time when they'll remove turtling AND rushing from the game by not allowing a building to be destroyed by a guy with a handgun, bazooka, or a jeep. The whole 'your base produces units and can be shot up by infantry until it explodes' thing is pretty outdated and encourages people to either rush in and kill it with crappy units that shouldn't be able to kill a building any more than men with swords can chop down a stone wall, or that you build up until you slog at each other with only the top units.

I'm more of a rusher than a turtler--if people really want invincible bases with high-end units... why not just skip the middleman and make bases start off as nearly impregnible and also give you access to all the fun units at the beginning?

Erik von Nein · Post by **Erik von Nein** » 2006-12-05 10:00pm

Yay! Kane's back and he doesn't have that retarded bit of metal on his face! And they address you! Woot.

Sad about the push for rushing, though. It'll make faster games, but I liked to build up my base. Might as wel remove defensive structures while they're at it, too.

Trogdor · Post by **Trogdor** » 2006-12-05 10:09pm

One of the multiplayer modes involves an impenetrable wall splitting the map in two and keeping the players seperate for x number of minutes. This was designed for the turtlers.

Anyway, here's some other stuff about the game I've learned from the podcasts and following the developer blog.

-Nod still posseses the stealth field generator. Whether it's any more effective than it was in TS is unknown.

-Subterranian units have "been left on the cutting room floor."

-GDI's Mammoth mk. III tanks are armed with, among other things, a rail gun, the powerful beam weapon that the Mammoth II had.

-As a result of popular demand, Tiberian has been changed in appearance. Since the people on the site's forums are always going on about how they want Tiberian to be exactly like it was in TD, I think it's safe to say that the gigantic crystals seen in the earlier screen shots are gone.

-Nod infantry squads can have a unit called a Confessor added to them. The Confessor is armed with grenades that release a gas which cases enemy units that inhale it to hallicinate and attack anything that moves.

-Nod's high end unit is a mech called the Avatar, which looks kind of like a Super Battledroid, only stupider, IMO. These are armed with a laser, and the player can order Avatars to rip the weapon off of other units to add to its own armament. This will of course destroy the unit that Avatar took the weapon from.

-There are tech buildings in this game. One of them is the Mutant Hovel, which allows the player that controls it to create Mutant units.

-The developers are refusing to give a yes or no on whether the Temple of Nod will be back. However, several of the pieces of concept art depict a Nod soldier in a room with a stained glass window with the Nod symbol behind him. If he's not supposed to be in the Temple, I'll eat my hat.

Sephirius · Post by **Sephirius** » 2006-12-05 10:16pm

bullshit bullshit bullshit
FUCK YOU EA

If I wanted a fast RTS, I'd play Dawn of War.
I want REALISM, as in, it takes more than 10 tanks to take down a base.

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2006-12-05 10:59pm

Sephirius wrote:bullshit bullshit bullshit
FUCK YOU EA

If I wanted a fast RTS, I'd play Dawn of War.
I want REALISM, as in, it takes more than 10 tanks to take down a base.

C&C's base structures aren't very realistic either, nor are slapping down factories and pumping tanks out of them. I think going for something more realistic would be good too, since real life strategic combat is pretty deep compared to C&C, and none of it really revolves around the idea of putting up walls with turrets. That made sense back in the day, but certainly not recently.

I'd sure like them to approach combat more similar to a Total War game than with rushing, factories, and the like.

Pelranius · Post by **Pelranius** » 2006-12-05 11:36pm

They're using the infantry squad system from Battle for Middle Earth, so that all the health of the unit is divided among those infantry, as I understand it.

And those Obelisks look pretty mean.

You can toggle around with the skirmish AI to turtle so you can tech up to your heart's content.

Zac Naloen · Post by **Zac Naloen** » 2006-12-06 07:45am

Developers need to learn not to listen to the idiots on the "official" forums. Usually they are idiots. I for one liked the giant Tiberium crystals they had, it gave the look that Tiberium really was Terraforming the planet and it was getting out of control.

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » 2006-12-06 07:59am

Pelranius wrote:Technically, they did win in Firestorm, when they teamed up with GDI to destroy CABAL.

What game was that in?

Losonti Tokash · Post by **Losonti Tokash** » 2006-12-06 08:12am

Enigma wrote:
Pelranius wrote:Technically, they did win in Firestorm, when they teamed up with GDI to destroy CABAL.

What game was that in?

Firestorm was an expansion for Tiberian Sun.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2006-12-06 09:26am

Zac Naloen wrote:Developers need to learn not to listen to the idiots on the "official" forums. Usually they are idiots. I for one liked the giant Tiberium crystals they had, it gave the look that Tiberium really was Terraforming the planet and it was getting out of control.

I'm surprised they aren't complaining that you can zoom. It wasn't like that in Tiberium Dawn!

Anyway, I'm with ya. The idea of whole zones of a map covered in these monstrous crystallized mountains, bleeding lethal radiation everywhere, continuing to spread, unstoppable... is a pretty cool one.

Losonti Tokash · Post by **Losonti Tokash** » 2006-12-06 09:32am

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
Zac Naloen wrote:Developers need to learn not to listen to the idiots on the "official" forums. Usually they are idiots. I for one liked the giant Tiberium crystals they had, it gave the look that Tiberium really was Terraforming the planet and it was getting out of control.
I'm surprised they aren't complaining that you can zoom. It wasn't like that in Tiberium Dawn!

Anyway, I'm with ya. The idea of whole zones of a map covered in these monstrous crystallized mountains, bleeding lethal radiation everywhere, continuing to spread, unstoppable... is a pretty cool one.

Like it matters. The type of person that would bitch about it is going to buy the game anyway. They're the worst kind of fanboy.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2006-12-06 10:14am

Losonti Tokash wrote:Like it matters. The type of person that would bitch about it is going to buy the game anyway. They're the worst kind of fanboy.

It's not exactly a make or break kinda deal, smartass.

Losonti Tokash · Post by **Losonti Tokash** » 2006-12-06 10:27am

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
Losonti Tokash wrote:Like it matters. The type of person that would bitch about it is going to buy the game anyway. They're the worst kind of fanboy.
It's not exactly a make or break kinda deal, smartass.

It wasn't in direct reference to you, it was about EA deciding to get rid of them because the ultra-fanboys didn't like big crystals. The point being that if they're dedicated enough to complain about the appearance of tiberium changing even a little over the course of a century or so, they'll probably buy the damn game whether it gets "fixed" or not.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2006-12-06 11:18am

Losonti Tokash wrote:It wasn't in direct reference to you, it was about EA deciding to get rid of them because the ultra-fanboys didn't like big crystals. The point being that if they're dedicated enough to complain about the appearance of tiberium changing even a little over the course of a century or so, they'll probably buy the damn game whether it gets "fixed" or not.

Ah, that's my bad, dude. Apologies.

Prozac the Robert · Post by **Prozac the Robert** » 2006-12-06 12:49pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote: I'm surprised they aren't complaining that you can zoom. It wasn't like that in Tiberium Dawn!

I don't see the point in zoom or rotate, and would have been happy to see C&C stay fairly 2d. Then they could spend the time making the units look prettier or the game play better. But maybe that's just me. (I still wish someone had made a 2d platform game for a modern console that was about as complex as mario 3, but used the disc space to hold thousands of levels.)

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2006-12-06 12:57pm

Prozac the Robert wrote:I don't see the point in zoom or rotate, and would have been happy to see C&C stay fairly 2d. Then they could spend the time making the units look prettier or the game play better. But maybe that's just me.

If it makes you feel better, I do like the top-down cartoony style of the original C&Cs the most, but I'm not exactly complaining about this shift to the Generals look either. I don't really know how much time they spent implementing it, but I'm guessing not a lot considering all the groundwork was already there with the SAGE engine from Generals; not to mention zoom and rotate has been around in Dune, Warcraft 3, and Dawn of War, too. I've never found a use for it, except for getting a cinematic look at the action, but whatever. It's cool.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2006-12-06 01:07pm

Prozac the Robert wrote:
I don't see the point in zoom or rotate, and would have been happy to see C&C stay fairly 2d. Then they could spend the time making the units look prettier or the game play better. But maybe that's just me. (I still wish someone had made a 2d platform game for a modern console that was about as complex as mario 3, but used the disc space to hold thousands of levels.)

I think that would probably take an obscenely long time to produce. The testing phase would be fun...

"Hmm, there's a block on level 724 that's slightly too high for the character to jump over..."

Prozac the Robert · Post by **Prozac the Robert** » 2006-12-06 01:17pm

Spyder wrote: I think that would probably take an obscenely long time to produce. The testing phase would be fun...

"Hmm, there's a block on level 724 that's slightly too high for the character to jump over..."

I was wondering if it's possible to create a mario algorithm that can decide if a level is possible, and roughly how hard it is. It seems like it oughta work.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2006-12-06 04:37pm

Feh. I really hope we get some kind of a resolution this time, and not yet another dose of "Nod was defeated...but they will be back!"

I'd give my right arm for a game that could take me on an epic, thrilling ride through the last days of Earth, when man is about to be replaced by giant, deadly crystals, where social order self-destructs, doomsday cults spring up all over the planet, with the last semblance of order being desperately defended by only a few countries that did not yet descend into total anarchy. You can save this world or destroy it, but once you do, it will be over. A new chapter, a new story, after a gigantic, epic climax where even heroes die in droves, allegiances change on a whim, humanity decides it's fate and nothing is at it seems on first glance.

Then again, it will probably be another shovelful of shit, made to sell a few more games to ADHD stricken youths.

Grandmaster Jogurt · Post by **Grandmaster Jogurt** » 2006-12-06 06:29pm

Spyder wrote:[snip quote]

I think that would probably take an obscenely long time to produce. The testing phase would be fun...

"Hmm, there's a block on level 724 that's slightly too high for the character to jump over..."

On the plus side, since it's only as complex as Mario 3, the character should have a maximum jump height and length that's given in tiles, so that part should be easy to fix.

The problem I see would be that levels don't just magically appear. Who's designing all these levels in a game dozens of times longer than Mario 3? Random-generated stuff probably wouldn't be that interesting, in my opinion.

Trogdor · Post by **Trogdor** » 2006-12-06 06:58pm

PeZook wrote:Feh. I really hope we get some kind of a resolution this time, and not yet another dose of "Nod was defeated...but they will be back!"

Not a chance. The developers are resisting fan pressure to name the game Tiberian Twilight because they don't want to imply that the series is wrapping up.