NASA: Water flowed 'recently' on Mars

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Jon
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NASA: Water flowed 'recently' on Mars

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Just popped up on the BBC, apparently coming out of a press conference from NASA;
Nasa says it has found "compelling" evidence that liquid water flowed recently on the surface of Mars.

The finding adds further weight to the idea that Mars might harbour the right conditions for life.

The appearance of gullies, revealed in orbital images from a Nasa probe, suggests that water could have flowed on the surface in the last few years.

But some scientists think these fresh gullies could also have been cut by liquid carbon dioxide (CO2).

The latest research emerged when Nasa's Mars Global Surveyor (MGS) spacecraft spotted gullies and trenches that scientists believed were geologically young and carved by fast-moving water coursing down cliffs and steep crater walls.

Scientists at the San Diego-based Malin Space Science Systems, who operate a camera aboard MGS decided to retake photos of thousands of gullies in search of evidence for recent water activity.

Two gullies that were originally photographed in 1999 and 2001, and imaged again in 2004 and 2005, showed changes consistent with water flowing down the crater walls, according to the study.

In both cases, scientists found bright, light-coloured deposits in the gullies that were not present in the original photos. They concluded that the deposits - possibly mud, salt or frost - were left there when water recently cascaded through the channels.

Other scientists think it possible that gullies like this were caused not by water but by liquid carbon dioxide.
[read more]

I wonder if we're on the verge of discovering life up there or if we're just getting our hopes up.
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LadyTevar
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Post by LadyTevar »

So.. is this a place we can get one of the Rovers over to doublecheck?
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GrandMasterTerwynn
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Post by GrandMasterTerwynn »

LadyTevar wrote:So.. is this a place we can get one of the Rovers over to doublecheck?
Nope. These gullies are most of the way around the planet, if memory serves. It will probably make for an interesting future target for MRO, though.
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Post by Lusankya »

But some scientists think these fresh gullies could also have been cut by liquid carbon dioxide (CO2).
Liquid CO2? How would that have come about? Google says you need a fair bit of pressure to make liquid CO2, and I can't quite see that happening on Mars.


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Better image

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Post by GrandMasterTerwynn »

Lusankya wrote:
But some scientists think these fresh gullies could also have been cut by liquid carbon dioxide (CO2).
Liquid CO2? How would that have come about? Google says you need a fair bit of pressure to make liquid CO2, and I can't quite see that happening on Mars.


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Link. I'd summarize, but fuck it, the article does a better job of offering an explanation. The date on the article is 2001, but describes the same gullies that were re-imaged by MGS in 2005 (any emphasis added to the article is mine.)
Liquid CO2, Not Water, Likely Created Martian Gullies
Liquid carbon dioxide breakouts rather than water probably created the martian gullies discovered last summer in high-resolution images from the Mars Global Surveyor orbiter camera.

Donald S. Musselwhite, Timothy D. Swindle and Jonathan I. Lunine of the University of Arizona Lunar and Planetary Laboratory publish their hypothesis in today's issue of Geophysical Research Letters.

Last June, scientists announced that gullies seen on some martian cliffs and crater walls suggest that liquid water has seeped down the slopes in the geologically recent past.

Researchers found small channels on slopes facing away from midday sunlight, with most channels occurring at high latitudes near Mars' south pole.

The scientists concluded that the relationship between sunlight and latitude may indicate that ice plays a role in protecting the liquid water from evaporation until enough pressure builds for it to be released catastrophically into the surface.

If channels are forming today, liquid water may exist in some regions of Mars barely 500 meters beneath the surface, they suggest.

Now UA researchers propose an alternative explanation involving carbon dioxide erosion. They point to several reasons why CO2 is a better candidate than water in gully formation.

One reason is that most gullies are found in the southern highlands, the oldest and coldest part of the planet, a place where liquid water is least likely to be stable.

"That's high altitude in a region of low geological activity. It is difficult to invoke some hydrothermal action there," Musselwhite said. "The surface is old, but the gullies are new."

Another reason is that the southern hemisphere has more extreme temperature variations throughout the year than does the northern hemisphere, since Mars is closer to the sun during southern summer and farther away during southern winter, Musselwhite said. The gullies are generally on pole-facing slopes where they receive very little or no sunlight for most of the year.

However, Musselwhite said, the most compelling fact is that gullies always start about 100 meters below the top of the cliff. At that depth, the pressure of the rock overhead is just enough for liquid CO2 to be stable, if the temperature is low enough.

"There are many interesting ideas about how liquid water might carve these things. Still, if the process works in these very special locations where at least during wintertime it is extremely cold, why don't we see the gullies in other places? If you have water cutting these gullies, you should see that everywhere, not just at these specific locations. And where is the water coming from? There is not much of it in the martian atmosphere or on the surface," he said.

It's not liquid carbon dioxide flowing in the gullies.

"What's coming out is liquid CO2 that suddenly vaporizes," Musselwhite said. "As it comes out, it expands very quickly, cools, and actually produces CO2 snow. The snow is suspended in CO2 gas that hasn't solidified yet. Together with rock debris, it forms slurry. Geologists call it a 'suspended flow.' Suspended flow acts like a liquid. It doesn't take very much liquid each time to add to gully formation."

There are analogs on Earth to this process.

Martian gullies look almost identical to terrestrial ones found in polar regions and also on cliff walls, where gullies are carved by snow pack. Such channels can also be found on the flanks of Earth volcanoes, carved by a suspended flow of ashes entrained in volcanic gas. And trapped mud and sediment caught in turbidity currents on the ocean floor cut deep channels into the continental shelves, Musselwhite noted.

How do Martian gullies form?

The planet's atmosphere is mostly composed of CO2. Under some atmospheric pressure, CO2 condenses from the atmosphere and into Mars' surface. Mars has been pummeled by impacts, making its surface typically porous, spongy gravel. Gas seeps through the surface and condenses in the pores of rock.

"In wintertime the cliff surface gets so cold that its temperature falls below the freezing point of CO2, which at low pressure goes directly to solid. As the cold wave moves from the surface, the pore space is completely filled in.

"When spring comes, dry ice warms up and expands. Since all the rock pore space is filled, pressure builds until the ice turns to liquid. Liquid CO2 takes up more volume than dry ice, so pressure continues to build."

At the same time, the dry ice dam evaporates and thins as temperature rises. At some point, the barrier becomes too thin and the liquid under pressure bursts out. It breaks through the surface into the atmosphere, where it evaporates quickly due to the sudden drop in pressure.

As carbon dioxide vaporizes rapidly, it also cools and entrains the CO2 snow, creating the suspended flow.

Some researchers claim that the gullies are very young and may currently be forming on Mars. They tie gully locations to oscillations in the martian climate caused by varying tilt of the planet's rotation axis, called obliquity.

When the obliquity is low, Mars' axis is almost straight up and the surface near the poles gets less heating all year around. At high obliquity in winter, more of the surface would be shaded, but in the summer, it would get much more sunlight than usual.

"If this explanation is correct, gullies are forming today around the south pole," Musslewhite said. "The ones that are farther from the poles are then older. You might expect these to form close to the equator in the period of high obliquity, when the axis is more tilted over. Some may be forming now on a yearly basis."

This idea is supported by evidence that some researchers say suggests that gullies are forming today near the south pole but not closer to the equator. Multiple images of the same gullies are needed to prove that, Musselwhite added.

[Contact: Don Musselwhite, Timothy Swindle, Jonathan I. Lunine ]

02-Apr-2001
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Post by Sikon »

While Martian surface temperature sometimes temporarily get above freezing in some areas, average temperature is vastly less. Temperatures can be as low as minus 220 degrees Fahrenheit, minus 140 degrees Celsius. The polar "ice cap" regions with widespread seasonal carbon dioxide (dry ice) frost also have subsurface water ice, but that does not suggest flowing liquid water exists on Mars. The usual combination of temperature and low pressure would tend to make bits of water ice subliminate rather than melt.

This very much shows the relevance of the observation in the article above about how the gullies form in the "coldest part of the planet." Cold by Martian standards is very cold, so there is particularly strong reason to suspect that the gullies are formed by carbon dioxide or dust rather than water. The preceding article posted by GrandMasterTerwynn makes convincing arguments.

Looking for evidence of life on Mars is interesting and worthwhile, but, if such is found, most likely it would be only remnants of very old microbes underground.
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Post by FSTargetDrone »

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:
LadyTevar wrote:So.. is this a place we can get one of the Rovers over to doublecheck?
Nope. These gullies are most of the way around the planet, if memory serves. It will probably make for an interesting future target for MRO, though.
Someone mentioned that even if the rovers could reach it, JPL cannot be sure that they were free of any contamination from Earth that could possibly affect any sort of life that might be in the water. Plausible? Who knows.
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Post by GrandMasterTerwynn »

FSTargetDrone wrote:
GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:
LadyTevar wrote:So.. is this a place we can get one of the Rovers over to doublecheck?
Nope. These gullies are most of the way around the planet, if memory serves. It will probably make for an interesting future target for MRO, though.
Someone mentioned that even if the rovers could reach it, JPL cannot be sure that they were free of any contamination from Earth that could possibly affect any sort of life that might be in the water. Plausible? Who knows.
Yes. NASA goes to great lengths to decontaminate and sterilize spacecraft prior to launch. Especially since it's been proven that there are a fair number of bacterial species that can tolerate the conditions of space. Unfortunately, with that being said, some can also tolerate the sorts of things used to kill them, especially if you've got some spores somewhere that have been somewhat sheltered from the decontamination procedures.
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Post by kheegster »

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:
FSTargetDrone wrote:
Someone mentioned that even if the rovers could reach it, JPL cannot be sure that they were free of any contamination from Earth that could possibly affect any sort of life that might be in the water. Plausible? Who knows.
Yes. NASA goes to great lengths to decontaminate and sterilize spacecraft prior to launch. Especially since it's been proven that there are a fair number of bacterial species that can tolerate the conditions of space. Unfortunately, with that being said, some can also tolerate the sorts of things used to kill them, especially if you've got some spores somewhere that have been somewhat sheltered from the decontamination procedures.
One of my professors was the chair of National Academies' Committee on Preventing the Forward Contamination of Mars, and he's involved in studying the possibility of contaminating Mars via robotic spacecraft.

I heard him give a talk last week, and IIRC he said that current sterilsation techniques used on Martian spacecraft leave about significant numbers of spores, especially on the interior components which are expensive to sterilize thoroughly.

NASA has a Planetary Protection Officer (probably the coolest job title on Earth) in charge of such matters.
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