Designing a Grappling Monk (D&D 3.5)

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2006-12-07 01:06pm

For a 3.5 D&D game, (level 5) I'm considering creating a Monk character that focuses on Grappling and would like some input on how to build it (largely in stats and feats).

So far, the feats I have in mind are (beyond Improved Grapple), Dodge, Mobility (for getting in an out), Clever Wrestling (for big things) and Close Quarters Fighting (for counter-grappling)

Improved Natural Weapon for increasing damage is another possibility.

Can the concept work for a decent second-tier fighter? What other suggestions do you have?

Deathstalker · Post by **Deathstalker** » 2006-12-07 01:45pm

I don't have my books handy, so this is off top of my head. Tumble skill ranks could be good, and go after every caster on the battlefield. Go pin some wizard and suckerpunch him a few times and he'll be out of the fight quick. If you are short on feat slots, I'd drop dodge and mobility first.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2006-12-07 01:55pm

I would suggest considering the level hit of playing a Goliath, if you have seen Races Of Stone. Counting as Large for your grapple checks will be a huge bonus.

lPeregrine · Post by **lPeregrine** » 2006-12-07 02:20pm

Of course the real question is how much you're willing to metagame the character? Do you have a personality/background/etc already developed? Or are you playing D&D Deathmatch, and every unrealistic race/class/feat/equipment stacking from any book is available?

As for can it work, yes, it can work very well if you do it right. Few (human) opponents will be able to grapple back effectively, and a grappled opponent is pretty much out of the fight.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2006-12-07 02:37pm

lPeregrine wrote:Of course the real question is how much you're willing to metagame the character? Do you have a personality/background/etc already developed? Or are you playing D&D Deathmatch, and every unrealistic race/class/feat/equipment stacking from any book is available?

It's for a campaign, and I already have a background ready, so no worries there.

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-12-07 02:43pm

A friend put together an INSANELY evil grapple monk... It had some nasty fucking combos set up, I'll try and find out what the setup was.

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2006-12-07 02:51pm

I visualized some sort of monk tied to a rope that you would throw at tall things and he'd grip to it so that you could scale high cliffs. Then I was like "Oh. Right."

Are you using any supplimental materials though, that's kinda what Pere was asking. If you can, try to find some materials from Quintessential Monk and ask if you could expand some of the house rules on grappling. Otherwise, there's lots of interesting tricks you can pull with grapples. The main issue with a grapplemonk is that you're at the mercy of your GM. If all they throw at you are wierd things, grappling seems fairly gimped. I'd also consider multiclassing, since while Monks are pretty potent stand-alone classes, some extra feats (fighter) or extra sneaking (rogue) would be pleasent for trying to get close to people and mug them.

Ritterin Sophia · Post by **Ritterin Sophia** » 2006-12-07 03:29pm

If you want a Lawful Good Monk you could take Touch of Golden Ice, it basically inflicts your opponent with a poison that only affects evil creatures every time you touch them, that would mean with 2-5 saves p/round with flurry of blows, they'll eventually fail (Can't remember DC). You also have Sanctified Natural Attack and Sanctified Ki Strike which does additional Holy Damage (Can't remember how much). I don't have my Book of Exalted Deeds on me but I'm seeing about getting it. You could go so far as to taking Vow of Poverty which has a number of affects that increase with level.

Conversely you could be Lawful Evil and take Vile Ki Strike which adds 1 point of Vile Damage to your Ki Strikes, which can only be healed by magic cast within the area of a consecrate or hallow spell, and it stacks. You can also add Vile Natural Attack for an additional Vile point.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2006-12-07 04:20pm

Covenant wrote:Are you using any supplimental materials though, that's kinda what Pere was asking.

Only 3.5 legal stuff is aloud in this campaign (IE: the Complete series, races books, Draconomicon, PHB II, etc.)

Fortunately, most of it is taking place in one city (with humans predominating).

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2006-12-07 06:33pm

General Schatten wrote:If you want a Lawful Good Monk you could take Touch of Golden Ice, it basically inflicts your opponent with a poison that only affects evil creatures every time you touch them, that would mean with 2-5 saves p/round with flurry of blows, they'll eventually fail (Can't remember DC). You also have Sanctified Natural Attack and Sanctified Ki Strike which does additional Holy Damage (Can't remember how much). I don't have my Book of Exalted Deeds on me but I'm seeing about getting it. You could go so far as to taking Vow of Poverty which has a number of affects that increase with level.

Conversely you could be Lawful Evil and take Vile Ki Strike which adds 1 point of Vile Damage to your Ki Strikes, which can only be healed by magic cast within the area of a consecrate or hallow spell, and it stacks. You can also add Vile Natural Attack for an additional Vile point.

Only if he's willing to play to being so thoroughly good as to qualify for exalted status, or so thoroughly evil as to be irredeemably vile. That stuff doesn't go to garden variety good and evil, y'know.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2006-12-07 07:04pm

Majin Gojira wrote:For a 3.5 D&D game, (level 5) I'm considering creating a Monk character that focuses on Grappling and would like some input on how to build it (largely in stats and feats).

Is it standard point-buy? Or roll 4d6 discard lowest die, repeat five more times? What are his stats, if you've rolled them? Or if it's point-buy, how many points do you get to spend? 25? 30?

Raj Ahten · Post by **Raj Ahten** » 2006-12-07 07:21pm

Okay Grapplers! Well, if you have the Complete Warrior there is alot of good stuff in there. Once your attack bonus gets high enough (+5) you can go for the Reaping Mauler prestige class. They gets bonuses on grapples, mobility as abonus feat, get holds that can choke people till they pass out, and at 5th level if you pin a guy for three rounds he hass to make a save or die. As far as feats go there is one in complete warrior called Earth's Embrace. It gives you an extra 1d12 grapple damage, but you have to remain completely immobile while doing so, giving others a +4 bonus to hit you. As others have already said, you could drop dodge and mobility, as you can use the Tumble skill. Your other feat choices are good. You might want to consider a level in sorcerer, taking enlarge person, and ray of enfeeblement or mage armor/shield as the two spells you get. It's an alturnative to getting an Ecl, gives you a large size when you need it, and more AC or lowers your oponents strength, making you better. Plus you could use wands and such.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2006-12-07 08:17pm

Stofsk wrote:Is it standard point-buy? Or roll 4d6 discard lowest die, repeat five more times? What are his stats, if you've rolled them? Or if it's point-buy, how many points do you get to spend? 25? 30?

40 point buy. Currently the idea is 16, 16, 16, 10, 15, 10

I tend not to like having negative stats.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2006-12-07 09:29pm

40 points? Christ.

Well, assuming you want advice on stat placement (I'm going off your OP) then I'd put the 16s in the three physical stats, the 15 in wisdom, and the two 10s in Int and Cha. For feats, I'd throw in Weapon Focus: Grapple to represent the... well, focus of your character.

EDIT: Unless you want skills, in which case bring wis down to 14 and put the extra two points into Int. If you want to make Cha your dump stat you can squeeze an extra skill point by bumping it down to 8 and Int up to 14.

For skills, I'd recommend Tumble and get it up to 5 ranks to get that dodge bonus to AC when you fight defensively. Since you want to start at level 5 this is easily doable.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2006-12-07 10:34pm

About the taking a level of sorc: Don't.

Take your first level as PsyWarrior, get Expand, get better BAB, get a free feat, get the psionic power point. Consider being an Elan for an extra psipoint. Expand can go more than one size category, IIRC.

If it's FR, there's a feat(Jotun? Jotungrad?) that lets you count as large for grapples. Very important.

Being a Goliath would mean you would be a level behind, but Fling Enemy as a feat transforms your grappled foe into a ranged weapon. How can you not love that?

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2006-12-08 09:53am

Fling Enemy sounds all sorts of fun -- which book can it be found in?

Velthuijsen · Post by **Velthuijsen** » 2006-12-08 01:52pm

SirNitram wrote: If it's FR, there's a feat(Jotun? Jotungrad?) that lets you count as large for grapples. Very important.

Jotunbrund. Is region specific and you need to be human IIRC.
The Goliath is a nice idea too, dwarf throwing (well eventually you can get feats to throw allies of a certain size)!

Friend who plays in an Eberron setting (mainly Sharn) has a cliffwalker shifter monk grappler. The idea behind this is to break the nearest window, grab an enemy, jump through the window and release the enemy then climb back in.

Oh and if you want some really sick builds ask the people at the Character Overclocking forum. Just be aware that the people who are going to give you ideas do it to get the most munchkin over the top cheeze build they can get.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2006-12-08 02:17pm

Why a grappler, by the way? Ideally you don't want to limit yourself to just one style of attack.

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Designing a Grappling Monk (D&D 3.5)

Designing a Grappling Monk (D&D 3.5)

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