Republic economy and Watto refusing to take creds...

[K. A. Pital]

...someone in teh Russian internet made me ponder.

Tatooine, and suddenly the Jedi cannot exchange Republican creds - as far as Qui-Gon not even trying and going with the force-coercion attempt straightaway. What does this mean? Is the Republic currency in some sort of crisis, or is it simply banned in some sectors of known space? Because Tatooine is obviously a smuggler and crime-lord den, and those type of folks run all currency business, and keep their savings as well as exchange currencies for the most strong ones, I mean, a currency of the Galactic State suddenly not for exchange? That's ridiculous. If they use local money and totally don't work with Republican credits, would that mean that Tattoine has some other valuable commodity that allows it to maintain it's own, very strong currency system, and a closed one, without exchange to "mainstream" Republican currency.

Thoughts?

[Mange]

...someone in teh Russian internet made me ponder.

Tatooine, and suddenly the Jedi cannot exchange Republican creds - as far as Qui-Gon not even trying and going with the force-coercion attempt straightaway. What does this mean? Is the Republic currency in some sort of crisis, or is it simply banned in some sectors of known space? Because Tatooine is obviously a smuggler and crime-lord den, and those type of folks run all currency business, and keep their savings as well as exchange currencies for the most strong ones, I mean, a currency of the Galactic State suddenly not for exchange? That's ridiculous. If they use local money and totally don't work with Republican credits, would that mean that Tattoine has some other valuable commodity that allows it to maintain it's own, very strong currency system, and a closed one, without exchange to "mainstream" Republican currency.

Thoughts?

Well, Tatooine wasn't part of the Republic for one thing and it would seem that Watto, for some reason, simply wouldn't have any use for the Republic currency.

[Darth Tanner]

But, for example dollars and euros are very desirable among countries like Egypt because the US/EU currency is much more stable than the local ones. For an outer rim merchant to not accept the main Republic currency is a very bad sign for the Rep economy as a hole.

Although it it not really shown in the movies (although Coruscant is the only real scene we see of normal everyday life) the Republic could be in severe financial crisis, they were forced into placing a very unpopular tax on the outer rim trade routes after all and the existance of refugee transports leaving Coruscant would indicate some sort of socio-economic problem. Also historically the rise of dictators is usually tied to economic depression, Hitler for example who Palpatine is loosely based on.

Alternatively if the Republic operates some form of digital curreny, based on advanced credit cards or something then this would be of no real use to a region outside of the authority of the Republic as its most unlikely that they would be able to access such funds due to the illegal nature of their existance, slavery and spice running for example. However the fact that Quigon said he had a set number of Rep credits would seem to either indicate that he had worked out a reasonable price for the ship parts earlier and was just offering that or that he had that many credits actually on him, whereby it could not be a digital based currency.

[Isolder74]

That's possible. It could also be related to the adversion in early days of the paper dollar, aka Greenback, and many prefering hard currency over the paper version. Many times early in the US in places like the fontier you could show up with a cart full of paper money and get nothing for it but fill the cart for a handfull of gold double eagles of the same value.

Its also possible that the Hutts have set up a envoroment where only hard money is of any value because of all the black market dealings that are going on and have made Republic money of no value on purpose in order to profit on forcing running finanaces only through them to deal money to the rest of the galaxy. Sort of a forced exchange rate so to speak. Perhaps Repuplic money has a paper trail that people like Watto don't want to have.

[HSRTG]

I always assumed that shitholes like Tatooine had their own mini-economy and currency, in the case of Tatooine perhaps based on water. The local Hutt buys up water in exchange for protection, the Jawas'd need water obviously, and probably accept water for droids. Then Hutt guy could put out water chits in pay, and they get circled around the local towns. Almost working like an old-style bank.

Barter economies really. The bigger cities with spaceports probably had more republic credit acceptance in the more obvious bars and such. Watto just looked like the person the local toughs would go too, and less like someone a tourist would go to for parts.

The Empire might be able to enforce its currency via "Use it or we shoot" in the larger cities, but I'd imagine barter still worked farther out.

[AK_Jedi]

Watto mentioned that he needed something more "real". Perhaps he doesn't want the republic's paper (or digital as the case may be) money, or the republic currency has an extremely high inflation rate. Perhaps republic credits are too easy to track by whatever method, and he wants to stay underneath the radar.

[Shroom Man 777]

TPM was just a few years before AOTC, maybe there were economical bad stuff that shitted the Republic economy.

[K. A. Pital]

For an outer rim merchant to not accept the main Republic currency is a very bad sign for the Rep economy as a hole.

Yeah, that's what I thought, too. Is the Republic perhaps autharkian? Hostile to Tattoine? Can't think of other reasons than either Republic bad currency system, or Tattoine's hostility for some reason.

Although it it not really shown in the movies (although Coruscant is the only real scene we see of normal everyday life) the Republic could be in severe financial crisis, they were forced into placing a very unpopular tax on the outer rim trade routes after all and the existance of refugee transports leaving Coruscant

Yeah, that's something I wondered about too.

And Watto's "more real" remark makes Republic currency value all the more questionable. Doesn't look like a paper trail, and if the Rep currency was strong and stable it would ahve high demand. As the Rep is the sole Galactic State, it's currency should be close to universal and fully convertible, dollar-like.

Perhaps what we are seeing is indeed the decline of the Republic, that has been hinted at in subtle ways. After all, the Secession in E II was also driven by economic reasons for many

[Ritterin Sophia]

It would seem that the Credstick (The thing credits are stored on), while the standard form of currency, is treated similairly like a credit card in that some places don't accept them, especially a place controlled by a criminal organization.

[FTeik]

Maybe the exchange rates on places like Tatooine aren't very good.

[K. A. Pital]

Maybe the exchange rates on places like Tatooine aren't very good.

That's not the deal, he (Watto) literally refused to take the currency at all... neither did Qui-Gon search for an exchange place, but he attempted to force-trick Watto into taking the obviously worthless creds even without trying to convince him with mere words (something that you usually try if you're not selling total bullshit). That's more serious than a bad exchange course. Looks like no one on Tatooine is even interested in exchanging Repubic credits.

[Darth Tanner]

Interstingly in the Rogue Planet novel Obi and Ani use valuable minerals to buy a prototype ship rather than any type of currency. Although the planet they go to is quite isolated it still strike me as very backward for a modern financial system to rely on actual transactions involving minerals.
Its almost as bad as Star Trek where everyone carries large amounts of gold bars around in their pockets.

Even if the Sekot inhabitants are in no way connected to the Republic as they claim it makes no sence what so ever for them to just out and out reject the use of Republic credits. If I was visiting Iran for example it is a safe bet that if I took US dollars with me they would be accepted atleast by the local currency exchange if not local shops regardless of political concerns.

Another idea I had is if the Republic has some form of economic blockade of non member worlds using Republic financial apparatus. As ony member worlds contribute to the well being of the state and the maintenance of the state aparatus it is possible that the state does not want rim worlds, who are openly defiant of Republic law to benefit from the intergalactic banking system they put in place and prohibit banks from authorising transactions outside of their own territory. Although this makes no economic sence it does make political sence in that it creates a huge reason to either maintain membership or to seek membership if a world is outside of the Republic. It also offers a good reason why the Banking Clans were so eager to join the Seperatist cause if they were being so openly dictated to by the government on where they can do business.

I never really understood that scene in TPM, why on Earth did Qui gon say how much money he had as an opening line. Who in their right mind walks into a shop to barter for engine parts by saying how much money they actually have, its asking to be charged more. In reality you ask for a starting price from the shop and then haggle him down. Not the other way round!

[dragon]

Hell even if the planet doesn't use credits there bound to be a trader that travels to a republic world. He might not have gotten a good deal but still. Hell the Hutts themshelves would take the credits as they trade all over the galaxy, most likely going to gouge you but oh well. It was just a stupid plot device that they didn't think through kind of like borg and bullets.

[nightmare]

Its also possible that the Hutts have set up a envoroment where only hard money is of any value because of all the black market dealings that are going on and have made Republic money of no value on purpose in order to profit on forcing running finanaces only through them to deal money to the rest of the galaxy. Sort of a forced exchange rate so to speak. Perhaps Repuplic money has a paper trail that people like Watto don't want to have.

Hmm. I could swear I've read this explanation somewhere.

[K. A. Pital]

Another idea I had is if the Republic has some form of economic blockade of non member worlds using Republic financial apparatus.

I like the idea. In fact, it can explain quite a lot.

[Guardsman Bass]

It's an interesting idea. Still, wouldn't there be some kind of money-changer on Tatooine? Republic credits may not be worth much on Tatooine, but they'd be worth something to anybody working in the Republic. You'd kind of think they'd be able to find one, even if the money-changer gave them bad rates on the exchange.

I suppose that might be where the whole "keep low on Tatooine" situation comes into place. Somebody suddenly exchanging 25,000 Republic credits might attract attention.

[K. A. Pital]

Somebody suddenly exchanging 25,000 Republic credits might attract attention.

Somebody buying a 1-in-all of Tatooine hyperdrive replacement for a Naboo-built ship... would not? And if they were so concerned with avoiding attention, why did Qui-Gon quite brushly speak out to Watto that he could go and plea his case to the Hutts? That's clearly as much attention as one can get. Also, taking part in a podrace as the pod owner, with only a few dozen participatories...

I'd say it's either Republic crisis or Republic forced measures against the use of it's currency. Watto's "I need something more real" indeed implies that Republic money has so little value and support that it's not exchanged. What would that mean, real-world wise? Unsupported, crisis currencies. Look at, say, Kazakhstani national currency. Then travel to, say, Angola and try to exchange it. No way. Same goes for the other way round. The Republic currency is not a "dollar/euro of the galaxy", it's a "zimbabwa dollah" of the Galaxy, so to say...

Which means Republic _is_ in crisis.

[Darth Tanner]

Which raises the question of why Quigon assumed he would be able to pay with republic credits in the first place. Either he was just going to use the force to MAKE Watto take them anyway or the Jedi are not aware of the economic state of the galaxy. Although unikely this would support some of the propaganda put out by Palpatine that the Jedi order were so concerned with their own affairs that they cared little for the well being of the galaxy, not giving a dam about the slaves on Tatooine unless they happen to be excellent jedi potential for example.

Also I am surprise that there is no Republic presence on Tattoine, which from TPM is shown to be actaully a rather populated planet rather than the backwater space port shown in ANH. Surely its not too unreasonable to assume that a galaxy wide government would have some sort of presence on all inhabited worlds. Even if its just a guy in a shack paid to listen to local news and opinion or to guage ship traffic. I suppose this could simply be the fact that any such person the Republic deployed would have unfortunate accidents involving Hutts and exotic radioative substance.

[Ghost Rider]

Somebody suddenly exchanging 25,000 Republic credits might attract attention.

Somebody buying a 1-in-all of Tatooine hyperdrive replacement for a Naboo-built ship... would not? And if they were so concerned with avoiding attention, why did Qui-Gon quite brushly speak out to Watto that he could go and plea his case to the Hutts? That's clearly as much attention as one can get. Also, taking part in a podrace as the pod owner, with only a few dozen participatories...

I'd say it's either Republic crisis or Republic forced measures against the use of it's currency. Watto's "I need something more real" indeed implies that Republic money has so little value and support that it's not exchanged. What would that mean, real-world wise? Unsupported, crisis currencies. Look at, say, Kazakhstani national currency. Then travel to, say, Angola and try to exchange it. No way. Same goes for the other way round. The Republic currency is not a "dollar/euro of the galaxy", it's a "zimbabwa dollah" of the Galaxy, so to say...

Which means Republic _is_ in crisis.

Except we're taking the case of one guy on a backwater, Non Republic word thoughts on this. The Republic is shown to control at least a vast majority of the Galaxy and only when the major banking instituitions and other such were brought into open rebellion did they muster anything.

So there are two explainations

Either the Republic is in trouble because one merchant in both second hand goods, and some illegal notions.

or

Watto personally doesn't care for them and his hyperdrive was the cheapest, thus when he hears Republic credits, he doesn't have as high a value as he would say the ship or slaves.

Note, that slaves were still on the planet and in fact they mention several times that it was not in the jurisdiction of the Republic. You will have provide a bit more evidence that the Republic is in trouble rather then basing an entire theory on the bartering talents of a Flying cheapskate.

[Zac Naloen]

You know, I always assumed that When Watto said he wanted something more real, that meant republic credits don't exist in any physical form, and are therefore useless to him as he couldn't access them from outside the republic.

[Ghost Rider]

Which raises the question of why Quigon assumed he would be able to pay with republic credits in the first place. Either he was just going to use the force to MAKE Watto take them anyway or the Jedi are not aware of the economic state of the galaxy. Although unikely this would support some of the propaganda put out by Palpatine that the Jedi order were so concerned with their own affairs that they cared little for the well being of the galaxy, not giving a dam about the slaves on Tatooine unless they happen to be excellent jedi potential for example.

He was trying to force Watto to accept them, in fact they demonstrate him trying to do exactly that.

Also I am surprise that there is no Republic presence on Tattoine, which from TPM is shown to be actaully a rather populated planet rather than the backwater space port shown in ANH. Surely its not too unreasonable to assume that a galaxy wide government would have some sort of presence on all inhabited worlds. Even if its just a guy in a shack paid to listen to local news and opinion or to guage ship traffic. I suppose this could simply be the fact that any such person the Republic deployed would have unfortunate accidents involving Hutts and exotic radioative substance.

Actually most of the World's books demonstrate Tattoine as a backwater wasteland, and even at the height of the New Order, barely worth a garrison detachment.

Also in TPM, the only reason we see any real activity was because of sporting event, Mos Espa was more sparsly populated then Mos Eisley.

It is exactly as Luke said in ANH. It is literally the butt end of the galaxy in most concerns. In fact the only reason the Jabba cared for it was it being far from any of the Core regions or even Mid Rim.

[Darth Tanner]

He was trying to force to make Watto to accept them, in fact they demonstrate him trying to do exactly that.

But he only tried to use the force after he offered Republic credits normally once and failed. I suppose he was probably just being hopeful that he wouldnt have to control someones mind if he didnt need to.

Also in TPM, the only reason we see any real activity was because of sporting event, Mos Espa was more sparsly populated then Mos Eisley.

I assumed the majority of those people in the crowd lived on Tatooine. I suppose in the Star Wars universe, with such widespread rapid space travel, getting a transport to Tattoine to see a race is little more than getting a train to see a football match in a near by city.

Note, that slaves were still on the planet and in fact they mention several times that it was not in the jurisdiction of the Republic.

I thought the Jedi considered themselves seperate and above the Republics sphere of influence and to be a sort of galaxy wide police force beyind any politica body with authority to enact justice where ever they pleased, obviously they would rely on local judicial authority to allow them to operate inside their area but on Tattoine there is no local judical authority, excet the Hutts who are hardly a lega form of government.

Admittedly the Jedi cant be expected to right all wrongs across the whole galaxy but they should have the moral and legal right to for example to emancipate the slaves on Tattoine if they so chose.

[Darth Wong]

Being the butt-end of the galaxy is no excuse to reject foreign currency out of hand rather than merely charging a hefty premium, especially if it's stable currency.

It seems more likely to me that the Republic currency is in really bad shape, which wouldn't be surprising if the Republic is in a state of turmoil and possible impending civil war. If outer regions are already so lawless that private corporations are running around holding entire planets hostage without provoking an immediate military response, it seems almost a foregone conclusion that investors would have serious doubts about the ability of the central government to make good on its financial obligations.

[K. A. Pital]

The fact that Tatooine is a backwater planet and the butt of the Galaxy is pretty damning, Zimbabwe-like places should have dollars easily exchanged and even payed by in the streets. We see the opposite. Republic would then resemble something of a Great Depression-era powerful nation that begins to accelerate towards a crush of it's currency system.

It's also pretty obvious then that there were deep reasons for such a massive Civil War conflict like the Clone War, not just "oh the two sith manipulate everything" bullcrap which is what Traviss-like types subcribe to, and explain why fascism of Palpatine took strong root and arose - currency crisis in Weimar Republic was not a small factor in the rise of fascism.

Could it be that the Republic currency is so unstable that it's value is not common throughout the Galaxy to the extent of it being simply denied on the outer rim? Looks like it.

[Ghost Rider]

The fact that Tatooine is a backwater planet and the butt of the Galaxy is pretty damning, Zimbabwe-like places should have dollars easily exchanged and even payed by in the streets. We see the opposite. Republic would then resemble something of a Great Depression-era powerful nation that begins to accelerate towards a crush of it's currency system.

It's also pretty obvious then that there were deep reasons for such a massive Civil War conflict like the Clone War, not just "oh the two sith manipulate everything" bullcrap which is what Traviss-like types subcribe to, and explain why fascism of Palpatine took strong root and arose - currency crisis in Weimar Republic was not a small factor in the rise of fascism.

Could it be that the Republic currency is so unstable that it's value is not common throughout the Galaxy to the extent of it being simply denied on the outer rim? Looks like it.

So, where is your proof.

Literally you are taking Watto...a single merchant's word, that the Republic credits in a place where is not under their jurisdiction, does not obey their laws, and activitly defies said laws as indication of the Republic is in trouble?

So how did Palpatine fund his war, when major banking instituitions left the Republic? Why did the Kaminos(people who were also not a part of the self same Republic) accept a transfer of money from the Jedi?

Literally you're making a conclusion with a flimsy piece of evidence and you've been here long enough to know that never fucking flies. So put up evidence that Watto wasn't being a hardass about the deal.