Reasonable Thrawn Trilogy Nuumbers

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2006-12-07 10:39am

Yea, I'd be inclined to think that some amount of the territory he gained involved alliances with some ex-Imperial warlords submitting to Thrawn's authority and tentatively joining forces. This could also help account for the rapid loss of this territory once Thrawn died, as the warlords would simply withdraw their support and take their territory with them.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2006-12-07 12:18pm

The Original Nex wrote:Yea, I'd be inclined to think that some amount of the territory he gained involved alliances with some ex-Imperial warlords submitting to Thrawn's authority and tentatively joining forces. This could also help account for the rapid loss of this territory once Thrawn died, as the warlords would simply withdraw their support and take their territory with them.

In that case the NR wouldn't claim to control the other three quaters of the galaxy.

Thinking about it on the other hand, I don't remember from TTT that this was the case. So is there another source for this claim or is it just based on the empire "controlling barely a quater of its former territories" in HttE?

Master_Baerne · Post by **Master_Baerne** » 2006-12-07 01:19pm

Batman wrote:
Master_Baerne wrote:By major campaigns, I meant the attack on Ukio, the multi-pronged attacks on various plantes that Leia and Han encounter in TLC, and the attack on Coruscant.
Ukio was an assault on a single system and Coruscant was a Valendamned hit-and-run attack that did no appreciable damage other than the asteroid blockade.
Granted that major campaing was the wrong phrase.
You can say THAT again.
Since Rogue Squadron wasn't actually guarding the base, it helps tp prove my point that the NR was being idiotic.
How so? It wasn't their JOB to. It's not like they were the ONLY force that could have defended the shipyards.
Incidentally the Sluis Van attack involved a bit more than just Chimaera.
Specifically, 5 ISDs, 12 Strike-class cruisers, 22 Caracks and their complement of TIEs amounting to 30 squadrons (HTTE Bantam paperback, p376).

AsI said, I haven't read TTT in several years. Next time I'll review my material before posting!

Pelranius · Post by **Pelranius** » 2006-12-07 08:25pm

I don't believe that the NR actually claimed to have three quarters of the galaxy anywhere in the TTT itself. The sourcebook might tell a different story, though.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-12-07 08:40pm

Pelranius wrote:I don't believe that the NR actually claimed to have three quarters of the galaxy anywhere in the TTT itself. The sourcebook might tell a different story, though.

Neither. TTT stated that the Empire was reduced to a quarter of its former territory and that them and the NR were just about evenly gunned (implying that about half of the galaxy was under the control of other factions).
Well IIRC anyway.

NRS Guardian · Post by **NRS Guardian** » 2006-12-07 09:34pm

Batman wrote:
Pelranius wrote:I don't believe that the NR actually claimed to have three quarters of the galaxy anywhere in the TTT itself. The sourcebook might tell a different story, though.
Neither. TTT stated that the Empire was reduced to a quarter of its former territory and that them and the NR were just about evenly gunned (implying that about half of the galaxy was under the control of other factions).
Well IIRC anyway.

I think the NR held at least half the galaxy, because the Essential Chronology and other sources say that the Empire was evenly gunned although it held less territory because the Empire either needed or favored more ships to protect and patrol a certain amount of territory compared to the NR.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2006-12-08 07:20am

Didn't the DarkEmpire-Sourcebook say somethign that for every planet, that joined the NR three others decided to stay independant and that the empire turned a quarter of the galaxy into fortress-systems?

Master_Baerne · Post by **Master_Baerne** » 2006-12-08 11:53am

Jedi Search said something like that when Ambassador Furgan came to Coruscant to poison Mon Mothma

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2006-12-09 09:42am

I believe its been pointed out a few times on this board that the raw speed of hyperspace and the hugeness of the galaxy preclude massing forces beyond the numbers we're used to seeing except for high risk / high gain potentially decisive confrontations such as the Battle of Coruscant of the Clone Wars or the liberation of Coruscant in NJO. 25,000 Star Destroyers are keeping watch over an empire spread out across, even with 25% of the galaxy, still millions of planets, at any one of which an enemy force could arrive without warning, attack and withdraw before a relief force could be sent unless the tens of thousands of ships of the line and millions of lesser vessels are dispursed to where they can react in real time.

It might as well be trench warfare in space, vast numbers but tied down as garrisons to the point where even the addition of 200 Dreadnaughts to one's mobile forces can be strategically significant.

Pelranius · Post by **Pelranius** » 2006-12-09 05:09pm

FTL sensors and communications could play a role in detecting incoming fleets and sending in reinforcements from the reserve to deal with them.

I believe that the FTL sensors can detect incoming hyperspace ships, though I might have misinterepted some passages. Can anyone clear that up for me?

Kartr_Kana · Post by **Kartr_Kana** » 2006-12-10 05:55pm

we know that ships in hyperspace can use their sensors, and the essential guide to weapons and technology says that the electroscope can detect ships out to half a light year away, IIRC. it also says that is usually unnesisarry since ships drop out of hyperpace much closer to the planet. To me that sounds like the electroscope cant detect ships in hyperspace, but its the size of an R series astro droid so maybe a larger more capable unit could. but the capability does exist

Pelranius · Post by **Pelranius** » 2006-12-10 06:56pm

Well, wouldn't you need capability to detect ships in hyperspace in order to make optimal use of your interdictors?

Yoda · Post by **Yoda** » 2006-12-10 07:18pm

Pelranius wrote:Well, wouldn't you need capability to detect ships in hyperspace in order to make optimal use of your interdictors?

Not really... If you know where a ship going, which Thrawn ofen did, you can set up an interdictor along its course (like in Thrawn's attemt to capture Luke in HTTE).

NRS Guardian · Post by **NRS Guardian** » 2006-12-10 08:21pm

Also, Interdictors are usually used to keep stuff from escaping when you know where it is, as with the Battle of Bilbringi where Thrawn knew the Rebels were going to attack and didn't want them escaping his ambush he'd set up.

As for hyperspace mobility, that was the main reason for having Sector forces concentrated at a central point to respond to any major attack and mitigate the damage of any hit and fade operations. Also, by concentrating forces around major production centers like Kuat and Fondor prevented raids from damaging the ability to produce war materiel.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2006-12-13 04:18pm

Pelranius wrote:ConnorMacleod: Didn't the Essential Chronology state that Thrawn had effectively doubled the territory of the Empire by his death?

Of course, that could have just been referring to territory directly under the control of Dangor and his council, or Kaine might have tentatively decided to join Thrawn just prior to Bilbringi and then withdrawn after the death of the Grand Admiral.

Yes, it did, and I forgot about this. However, when Thrawn died, the "Empire" virttually disintegrated without him holding it together, so I assume that was referring to more than just the Empire "proper", but probably various moffs and quasi-warlords he'd either allied with or cowed into submission. There were still plenty of warlords around (If he'd grabbed hold of the Pentestar alignment for example, Thrawn would have been running around with a SSD.)

Of course, we also dont know the size of the Empire "proper", either.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2006-12-13 04:27pm

The description of the events following Thrawn's death are confusing, to say the last. According to the EC the conquests of the MountTantiss-campaign were quickly lost, while according to the DESB the campaign continued.

DESB wrote: Despite cunning and remarkable strategies, Thrawn and C'baoth faced final defeat at the hands of the Republic. The new Imperial offensive was smashed. Or should have been.

Somehow, the Empire's offensive continued, seemingly with renewed strength and many more forces than Thrawn had been able to call upon.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2006-12-13 04:34pm

Wouldn't Wankatine have been the one calling the shots after Thrawn's death, using the reserves in the Deep Core to bolster Thrawn's forces?

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2006-12-13 04:41pm

Darth Yoshi wrote:Wouldn't Wankatine have been the one calling the shots after Thrawn's death, using the reserves in the Deep Core to bolster Thrawn's forces?

Palpatine didn't reveal himself (or became more active) until after his unaware underlings had already re-conquered Coruscant.