Religious Tolerance

[Engineer_00]

I'm just curious. How are everyone's feeling here towards non-aggressive believers? Are they just as retarded as fundamentalists? or are they acceptable since they have at least a slight comprehension of science?

[C.S.Strowbridge]

I'm just curious. How are everyone's feeling here towards non-aggressive believers? Are they just as retarded as fundamentalists? or are they acceptable since they have at least a slight comprehension of science?

On the Retardation scale, they're not as bad as Fundies, but they are bad enough to warrent mocking.

On the Scary scale it depends on how much they believe in Bible Morality.

[Darth Wong]

The level of stupidity of a believer is dictated by his particular set of beliefs, not by his aggression level. A fundie with low self-esteem and a passive personality is no less of a blithering idiot than an in-your-face fundie.

Moderate Christians are defined as such by their beliefs (not taking the Bible literally, accepting that people don't necessarily have to follow its teachings in order to be moral, etc), not by their aggression factor.

[Eleas]

I'm just curious. How are everyone's feeling here towards non-aggressive believers? Are they just as retarded as fundamentalists? or are they acceptable since they have at least a slight comprehension of science?

I'm curious as to how you equate lack of aggression with comprehension of science.

[Orion]

I have an aquatance who is a fundementalist christian. He is really understanding of others views and tolerant of there beliefs, therefore, I tolerate and have no qualms with him. But the complete lack of understanding of the natural world which is almost a requirement of his views, makes him a complete idiot logicaly and scientificly.

To be a fundementalist of anything is never a good thing

[Stormbringer]

An in your face fundy is not any dumber than a quite one. The quiet ones are more tolerable though simply because we don't have to hear about it.

[Engineer_00]

So... We're all saying it's not the belief that makes the person stupid, it's the ignorance and arrogance they possess? Good! I thought the general concensus was "Anyone who believes anything besides science is a fucking idiot!".

[Colonel Olrik]

So... We're all saying it's not the belief that makes the person stupid, it's the ignorance and arrogance they possess? Good! I thought the general concensus was "Anyone who believes anything besides science is a fucking idiot!".

Anyone who blind and arrogantly follows old books and takes some verses above verified scientific facts (example: Evolution Vs Creationism) is being an idiot.

Someone who simply has beliefs is not

[Eleas]

So... We're all saying it's not the belief that makes the person stupid, it's the ignorance and arrogance they possess? Good! I thought the general concensus was "Anyone who believes anything besides science is a fucking idiot!".

Well, you were wrong, I'm afraid. On the other hand, anyone who believes religion vital to non-believers are IMHO deluding themselves.

[Darth Wong]

So... We're all saying it's not the belief that makes the person stupid, it's the ignorance and arrogance they possess? Good! I thought the general concensus was "Anyone who believes anything besides science is a fucking idiot!".

Where did you learn to read?

We're saying it IS the belief that makes the person stupid, NOT their level of arrogance. You've got our statements ass-backwards!

BTW, anybody who disputes science on the basis of his beliefs IS an idiot. Deal with it.

[HemlockGrey]

Obviously, pi = 3.

[McNum]

I wonder what category I would fit into.

I am a very moderate christian. I belive that there is something all powerful. I don't have any logical arguments to support that with, only a feeling.

The question is then: Do I let that stop me from seeing the world from a scientific point of view? No, not at all, no way. For me science is science and should be view as such. My beliefs are seperated from science.

I have a good understanding of the basics of science and I accept evolution as the most probable origin of man and all the other creatures on Earth.

Sure creationsim fascinates me a little, but if they could for once try to start saying "We're right because... [insert good argument here]" instead of "They're wrong because we say so!" then they might also catch my attention. They have the burden of proof for their own theory and frankly, they need solid evidence, badly.

On the subject of morality I have the morality I was brought up with. Whether it is based on religion or not is something I don't know, and I don't care about. It's my morality now and I think it turned out quite good.

What does this make me than? That one in a million case that actually can both understand science and be a little religious at the same time or just a really confused nut-case?

(Somehow I have a feeling that you're going to answer the latter...)

[Eleas]

What does this make me than?

Two things: a person more moderate and less afraid of science than the religious fundies, and someone with a problem spelling the word "then".

*dodges thrown objects*

[SyntaxVorlon]

I wonder what category I would fit into.

This makes you a deist, you believe in an intellectual force that may or may not have had something to do with the beginning of life on earth. Anyone who understands morality knows that religion does not necessarily dictate morals, it is culture. If religion was trumped regional morality then the Moghul rulers of India would not have adorned the red fortress with the imagery of flowers and animals. They would have destroyed all the graven images, like the iconoclastic arabs, and parallely, the iconoclasts in Byzantium would not have happened because Rome likes pictures.

[Engineer_00]

We're saying it IS the belief that makes the person stupid, NOT their level of arrogance. You've got our statements ass-backwards!

You're an idiot, Mike. I really didn't want to say it, but you are. Just because someone believes in a specific ideal, that doesn't necessarily comply with science, they're a moron and therefore should be treated unfairly? And you say christians are ignorant!

Where did you learn to read?

I learned to read in public school, thank you; Illiterate people usually don't involve themselves in activities based on reading, Mike.

P.S. Don't burn me, Mike. I don't like it.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

Wong's pissed at you because you reversed his statement. And YES, it IS the belief that can make someone a moron.

Let's use an extreme example. Let's say you believe "1+ 1 = 3." Needless to say, that is in complete defiance of any kind of logic and mathematics as we know it today, so you won't have any hard evidence or logic for that belief. But you believe it anyway, for little apparent reason - but who knows, your mother might have told you that, and that's why you believed it.

Is it OK if you were not "arrogant" and thus did not keep telling everyone that passed by "1 + 1 = 3?"

Not in my book. You are a moron for merely having that belief, especially if you held it despite at least a decade (if you are a high-school graduate) of math schooling.

A belief that you hold CAN make you a moron.

If you were REALLY literate, it is hard to believe you can take

The level of stupidity of a believer is dictated by his particular set of beliefs, not by his aggression level. A fundie with low self-esteem and a passive personality is no less of a blithering idiot than an in-your-face fundie.

And take it as a sign the guy feels the aggression level is more important.

[SeebianWurm]

He said disputes science. Anyone trying to dispute science that starts from an assumption - a BELIEF is an idiot; the only way to dispute science is with fact and the scientific method. You don't start with a conclusion and try to make the facts fit it. You gather the facts and then make the conclusion.

[Engineer_00]

I agree in that respect. If math dictates 1+1=2, yet I say the result is 1,345, then I'm a complete and utter idiot, with absolutely no grasp of basic mathemathics. What I'm saying, is if I believe in Ganesh or some other higher being, and another person outright tells me I'm a moron for simply believing in it, that is arrogant.

[Coyote]

McNum is cool. He seems to be the type who can seperate religion and logic. Religion, based on feelings or faith, is divorced from logic. If a person requires "logic" or "proof" to back up his faith, then he actually has no faith. I also believe in a higher power, and admit that there is no way that I can "prove" this, it is juts my personal feeling.

Engineer_00, on the other hand, is some guy who spoils for a fight but doesn't want anyone to punch back. Duh.

[HemlockGrey]

McNum is cool. He seems to be the type who can seperate religion and logic. Religion, based on feelings or faith, is divorced from logic. If a person requires "logic" or "proof" to back up his faith, then he actually has no faith. I also believe in a higher power, and admit that there is no way that I can "prove" this, it is juts my personal feeling.

Then by that logic, I am cool too! Yay!

[Engineer_00]

No, actually. Mike insulted me, and presented a rebuttle. I created a rebuttle to both Mike's insult and his statement. Don't misinterpret my words, Coyote.

[Coyote]

You are following the path and going through the proceedures, it just seems to me that you were lookin' for a fight is all. But don't mind me; get on with it.

[Crayz9000]

Obviously, pi = 3.

You're only partially correct, since you've rounded it to 0 digits. Somewhat more accurately, pi is 3.141592654...

[Shinova]

Back on the subject of tolerating religions:


I don't care what religion a person believes in as long as they don't try to convert me. This goes for fundies as well. As long as they don't try to convert me, I'm okay with them (whether they have a good character factors in as well).

[Darth Wong]

You're an idiot, Mike. I really didn't want to say it, but you are. Just because someone believes in a specific ideal, that doesn't necessarily comply with science, they're a moron and therefore should be treated unfairly? And you say christians are ignorant!

Yes. Deal with it. If you think your belief overrides logic and observation, you're a blithering idiot.

I learned to read in public school, thank you; Illiterate people usually don't involve themselves in activities based on reading, Mike.

You can read words, but you can't understand them. That's about all you learn in grade school, and you've proven how little it's truly worth.

P.S. Don't burn me, Mike. I don't like it.

Too bad, because you're a dumb-ass.