Medieval 2 Battle Report & Strat Thread (Super pic hvy)

[InnocentBystander]

Of all the artillary, ballistas are the only ones you can count on to wittle down the enemy.

[Vympel]

Cannons fall way too short and way too far very, very often. An entire four culverin (ie. two units) bombardment of a huge enemy force will yield moderate casualties at most. Gets slightly better if you bring mortars along too. Ballistas though- hardly ever miss.

I'd still like someone to explain the logic to me as to why the Byzantines don't get culverins/cannons/serpentines/grand bombards/monster bombards. They should at least get one or two of them.

Because Bombards are hideously inaccurate most of the time.

Also, I was somewhat surprised/ relieved to see that Byzantine Infantry are actually a city unit in M2TW. I had assumed they were a castle unit too. That's actually ok- Dismounted Byzantine Lancers and Dismounted Latinikon for the army (Lancers can have their armor upgraded to a higher level than Byzantine Infantry) and Byzantine Infantry for the militia- that's actually a good advantage to have, they'd make great defenders for the walls.

[atg]

Cannons fall way too short and way too far very, very often. An entire four culverin (ie. two units) bombardment of a huge enemy force will yield moderate casualties at most. Gets slightly better if you bring mortars along too. Ballistas though- hardly ever miss.

I find that my cannons have the awesome ability to kill the enemy General within the first few shots. After that they do pretty much nothing though. Anyone else seen that?

[Companion Cube]

Cannons fall way too short and way too far very, very often. An entire four culverin (ie. two units) bombardment of a huge enemy force will yield moderate casualties at most. Gets slightly better if you bring mortars along too. Ballistas though- hardly ever miss.

I find that my cannons have the awesome ability to kill the enemy General within the first few shots. After that they do pretty much nothing though. Anyone else seen that?

I have a unit of trebuchets which has killed two successive Kaisers!

[wautd]

It's a damn shame you can't put ballista's/bombards etc... on castle walls. The biggest castle walls have easely the surface to place them on.

[PeZook]

I've been wondering why some factions don't get all the gunpowder units. Poland, for example, only gets three of four types of cannons (I think it was serpentines, cannons, those strange wagon mounted things and bombards). No mortars, no culverines, no grand bombards or monster bombards, nothing.

What's the bloody reasoning for that supposed to be? It's not like Poland magically stopped advancing technologically at some point in the Middle Ages, and existed long afterwards, so they can't use that retarded "It's ahistorical!" approach they used for the ERE.

EDIT: And why the hell are trebuchets more accurate than cannons? Aiming a trebuchet required changes to it's construction, for god's sake. With a cannon, you look down the barrel and fire. Goddammit.

[Darth Wong]

I find that cannons are best used for inflicting heavy casualties upon one or two enemy units at very long range, not decimating the entire enemy army. They are particularly good for destroying enemy artillery, and I've had good luck killing enemy generals.

Where they really shine, however, is defending a city square against a huge enemy army. I've used that tactic several times of putting culverins in the city square, and when the enemy army pours through the city walls and tries to rush my city square, they're packed in shoulder-to-shoulder in the city streets. The devastation that culverins and longbowmen can cause in that situation is absolutely breathtaking. Line up the culverin so that it shoots right down the street, and each cannonball will wipe out scores of men, cavalry, or even Timurid elephants with ease.

[Fire Fly]

I find that cannons are best used for inflicting heavy casualties upon one or two enemy units at very long range, not decimating the entire enemy army. They are particularly good for destroying enemy artillery, and I've had good luck killing enemy generals.

Where they really shine, however, is defending a city square against a huge enemy army. I've used that tactic several times of putting culverins in the city square, and when the enemy army pours through the city walls and tries to rush my city square, they're packed in shoulder-to-shoulder in the city streets. The devastation that culverins and longbowmen can cause in that situation is absolutely breathtaking. Line up the culverin so that it shoots right down the street, and each cannonball will wipe out scores of men, cavalry, or even Timurid elephants with ease.

Take about Paris 1795.

I had attacked a Milanese army and postioned my army on a hill top while the Milanese stayed in a defensive position on the otherside of the map. They were out of reach of my retinue longbowmen but not my culverins! My two units of culverins, four cannons, inflicted 33% casaulties on the tightly formed Milanese army. Its so satisfying to seeing artillery shells make streaks of nothingness in their ranks. I find that the Explosive Shells are far too inaccurate and not worth it.

[Arrow]

I managed to get a bombard in an enemy city's gates once (usually they rush the gates as soon as my troops get anywhere near the walls, making it difficult to use cannons without killing my own troops, but this time they waited a bit). The bombards had a nice straight shot down the main street, and decimated the Milanese general and militia that were defending the city. The eventually charged the bombards, but my armored swordsmen and retinue longbows (they had taken the walls by this point) drove them off, and the bombard crews went back to blasting the square. Awesome battle.

And last night I used mortars to take out Hungary's trebs before they could breach my Citadel's walls. Indirect fire kicks so much ass!

[wautd]

Where they really shine, however, is defending a city square against a huge enemy army.

I'm always afraid they shoot trough your lines first (it sure looks like they would if you look at a bombard). Do they shoot over your lines or do you have to put them infront of your troops like I do now (the downside is that the soldiers manning the bombard will leave their cannons when the enemy gets too close).

I really like the ribault. Longbowmen spikes in front of a gate to murder cavalry, infantry in the flanks to keep enemy infantry busy and that machinegun ballista in front to murder several lines in one shot. Not to mention it's a real morale breaker

[Darth Wong]

Where they really shine, however, is defending a city square against a huge enemy army.

I'm always afraid they shoot trough your lines first (it sure looks like they would if you look at a bombard). Do they shoot over your lines or do you have to put them infront of your troops like I do now (the downside is that the soldiers manning the bombard will leave their cannons when the enemy gets too close).

You can't put infantry in front of a cannon. But remember that in a city square, the enemy will generally approach along the most direct route, especially since there's often a time limit on the assault. So I create a "pocket" to await him at the point where that road meets the city square. It looks like this:

Code: Select all

S     S
S     S
S     S
 AACAA 

S for spearmen or swordsmen, A for archers, and C for cannons. The cannons can be kept quite far back because their range is so long, and they can blast approaching enemies as they jostle their way down the main street. By the time they emerge into the "pocket", they've been taking cannon fire for a long time, archer fire for a short time, and then they find themselves flanked by infantry. Their morale usually breaks easily, causing them to flee right through the units behind them. This causes further traffic congestion in the streets, even juicier targets for my cannons and archers, and a rapidly spreading morale disaster.

I really like the ribault. Longbowmen spikes in front of a gate to murder cavalry, infantry in the flanks to keep enemy infantry busy and that machinegun ballista in front to murder several lines in one shot. Not to mention it's a real morale breaker

The ribault is nice but its range is short and when you have packed enemy infantry in a city street trying to approach your city square, few things are more devastating than a cannonball going right down the middle of the road. That's point-blank range for a culverin, and I never use exploding shot so the cannonball just barrels right through the tightly packed enemy units.

[Arrow]

I've got to try that formation tonight. I think I have just the city for it too, but with bombards instead of culverin.

[Master of Cards]

I took the HRE with 4cities left because I killed the Emp in a little castle with 80 men fighting for him
then I got Faction destoryyed which is cool

[Vympel]

I've yet to let the enemy get in my city square- but then, I've never been on the receiving end of a Timurid or Mongol siege, which is the only thing I probably wouldn't be able to stop at the breach (and even if I did, the casualties would be outrageous).

[Dartzap]

Goodgood jolly good!

Hello community, this is wikiman`s secretary Rinsui from CA “down-under”.
We deeply apologize for the long delay finalizing the upcoming patch took us, but as Wiki(the)man already stated before: Rome wasn’t built in a day, and neither is this update going to be.

( p223.ezboard.com/fshogunt...6608.topic )

After several days of sheer endless discussion, we finally agreed on one central issue: since it is close to impossible to fix all minor issues in one update, the upcoming 1.1a patch is intended to fix only major “game breaking” issues (as the notoriously passive AI during sieges/when encountering massed missile units and the CTD with the Timurid`s Elephant Units), leaving the correction of smaller and less critical to (an already pending) future update. A more-or-less complete and commented list of all the issues taken care of was compiled into the list below.
We are working really hard to do our best here, however there are many smaller issues that simply eluded our attention due to being uncommon, system- or faction-specific or simply the emerging product of several independent factors influencing each other.

As already stated before, a part of this update will be the unpacker for the modders. We would have released it earlier but it is only compatible with the update 1.1a code. However, as we have been really pleased with the reaction and support you guys have been giving us concerning this game, we definitely wanted to give back a small portion of right that: Support and feedback. Have fun modding!

With the final test phase coming to an end this evening (Friday, Dec. 8th), we are looking forward to release the update on the official total war site (www.totalwar.com) as well as on several mirrors (to be announced at release) around Saturday, Dec. 9th, morning (GMT). Assuming nothing goes wrong you should have it after then.

Stay keen,
Rinsui




Issues (hopefully) taken care of include:

-The “slow-motion-bug” that saw some infantry units losing due fighting/movement at vastly reduced speed has been completely corrected.

-AI will now react to prolonged missile fire more “intelligent”, depending on the AI army general’s command rating.

-During siege battles, once an AI spy has succeeded in opening the gates, at the beginning of the battle the AI will rush its heaviest units towards the gates. This should guarantee much more challenging siege battles. Be prepared to sweat.

-Unless the unit originally manning a siege tower/ladder is routing or fully engaged in combat on the walls, the AI will no more consider this siege tower a viable access point into the settlement, thus “crowding” and the associated lag during some siege battles will be effectively prevented. This issue is also connected to the AI not moving on from outer defences to inner walls during a castle siege, which has thus likewise been dealt with.

-AI will now react to flanking manoeuvres more “intelligent”, depending on the AI army General’s command rating.

-Merchants will now always produce the appropriate amount of Florins, taking into consideration distance to capital even after loading/reloading a game.

-Mostly during VH setting, the AI sometimes used to defend their most valuable settlements with only a tiny number of troops. This has been corrected.

-The triggers and scripts for cavalry have been amended in order to give players a good chance of a good charge while retaining some sense for realism. Likewise, pursuing fleeing enemies with lowered lances has been enabled for some units. However, this is a work-in-progress, and the final outcome will be heavily influenced by the community’s reactions to the new mechanism, as we always try to stay in touch with your opinions.

-Missile units will now always fire on the target they are ordered to fire at while “fire at will” is switched off.

-Melee units wielding two-handed weapons will now engage cavalry correctly.

-Missile Units ordered to charge the enemy will now do so correctly.

-Some minor issues concerning graphical bugs with some ati cards have been corrected. A full list will be posted in the update’s readme.

-Crossbow units will now stop firing at steep angles. This has proven to cause them to virtually waste their ammunition in some cases.

-Units that can fire in ranks will now stop re-reforming after taking casualties by enemy missile fire. Also, an issue where reforming soldiers kept bumping into each other after every volley has been taken care of. Happy annihilation.

-Crusading armies that do not reach the target settlement in time or until another faction’s crusade has taken the settlement will now simply disband. Family members in those “lost crusades” will have a chance of being either captured and ransomed or reappearing in one of the original crusading faction’s border cities within a few turns after a crusade is disbanded.

-Jihads can now only be called by the Imam with the highest piety rating in game, and only if his piety rating is equal to or above 7. This amendment was made to prevent the Turks from conquering most of Byzantine within the initial 3 turns.

-The AI will now take into consideration its own power and current situation more accurately when negotiation a ceasefire or an offer to become a vassal.

-Finally, the CTD caused by battling Timurid Elephants that had taken losses in previous battles has been fixed.




Issues that will be taken care of in a future patch:

-Further balancing of cavalry charges.

-Melee units sometimes „spreading out“ to engage enemies are a known issue that is rooted deep within the combat mechanisms. In fact, as far as battles on crowded grounds (e.g. within castle walls) are concerned, this is more of a feature. However, this may need some more balancing in the future.

-Voice castings for the Aztecs and Danes will be reconsidered.

-Siege equipment sometimes not firing at enemy units, although they are in range and no obstacles are in the way. This issue is hard to replicate, and under investigation. Stay tuned.

-Population growth rate is under observation.

-An option to expel another faction’s troops from territory controlled by the player will be added to the diplomacy interface. Likewise, an AI factions reliability rating will go down upon transgression if it is a) allied with another faction, but does b) not have military access granted.




“Issues” that are features and will not be changed:

-AI sometimes placing units in inaccessible areas - on top of mountains, for example - is not a bug, but a feature. Part of the problem armies had in defeating their opponent’s way into modern warfare was reaching entrenched positions. However, to prevent player-controlled and AI armies from fortifying their positions “ad infinitum”, it was ensured that defending armies can always be reached from at least one direction of the strategy map. It is up the player to find out which direction that is, though.

-Diplomacy has been the topic of one of the most heated discussions among CA members and up to now. Reports of long-time allies suddenly backstabbing the player keep floating around the forums in countless numbers. However, there have been equally countless accounts of similar incidents in medieval, as well as in modern history, and since AI factions also try to “win” the game, they will, according to their leaders characteristics and a multitude of other factors, choose to attack allies as well as long-standing enemies (just as most human players do, btw). Be on your guard.

-The pope will only excommunicate players that attack the faction named in the respective papal mission from outside of a settlement of the player that is threatened to be excommunicated. Example: Lets say you are Hungarian, and the pope threatened you with excommunication, should you attack the Polish. Now the Polish lay siege to one of your settlements. In case you now sally forth to lift the siege, this will be considered an act of mere self-defence, and not be punished in any way by the pope. Should you however use another army on the campmap to assault the besieging army, you will be considered “aggressive” by the pope and thus be excommunicated rightfully. To cut it short: the only way you are allowed to engage in battle with the Polish is by sallying forth out of a settlement besieged.

-Time progressing at 2-years-intervals is intentional, since 1-years-turns would have most players never seeing the invention of gunpowder or America. One possible solution to this issue would have been the introduction of different starting periods (as seen in Shogun, and MTW). Since this would have some severe impact on the game’s mechanics, we have no intention of changing this system as of yet. However, depending on public demand, this feature may be part of a future expansion.


That’s all for now, folks. Depending on where you are, enjoy X-mas time, praise Allah, God, Amaterasu or whatever you chose to believe in, and lets hope more people choose to have “Total War” on their computers than with their fellow humans.
Dewa dewa,
Rinsui/CA “down under” (^.^)/

[Vympel]

Time progressing at 2-years-intervals is intentional, since 1-years-turns would have most players never seeing the invention of gunpowder or America. One possible solution to this issue would have been the introduction of different starting periods (as seen in Shogun, and MTW). Since this would have some severe impact on the game’s mechanics, we have no intention of changing this system as of yet. However, depending on public demand, this feature may be part of a future expansion.

I'm quite happy with two-turns per year, thanks very much. Not really bothered about gunpowder, and the Americas are a gimmick anyway.

And if I want either of those two things- I can just play on after I've finished the game

[GuppyShark]

-AI will now react to prolonged missile fire more “intelligent”, depending on the AI army general’s command rating.

Captains will continue to be as stupid as ever? Most AI forces are commanded by Captains, I always figured that had to do with how badly they fought.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

-Crossbow units will now stop firing at steep angles. This has proven to cause them to virtually waste their ammunition in some cases.

Why can't they just shoot like non-retards and direct fire? Especially on battlements, all they have to do is lean a little bit and shoot, even if that means only the first rank could fire, it'd be a lot less retarded.

-Melee units sometimes „spreading out“ to engage enemies are a known issue that is rooted deep within the combat mechanisms. In fact, as far as battles on crowded grounds (e.g. within castle walls) are concerned, this is more of a feature. However, this may need some more balancing in the future.

LOLZ IT IZ A FEATUR!!!!11

“Issues” that are features and will not be changed:

lolz

-Diplomacy has been the topic of one of the most heated discussions among CA members and up to now. Reports of long-time allies suddenly backstabbing the player keep floating around the forums in countless numbers. However, there have been equally countless accounts of similar incidents in medieval, as well as in modern history, and since AI factions also try to “win” the game, they will, according to their leaders characteristics and a multitude of other factors, choose to attack allies as well as long-standing enemies (just as most human players do, btw). Be on your guard.

The problem isn't backstabbing, it's stupid backstabbing. If I have "Supreme" military power, in addition to #1 in every ranking category, why the unholy fuck would a fellow Catholic risk excommunication and break a long-standing and beneficial alliance to assault a CITADEL with a handful of infantry?!

[InnocentBystander]

The AI must have decided it would get closer to winning by attacking your city, with its handful of infantry, rather than... sitting on its thumbs for the turn.

[GuppyShark]

Man, I just had a hilarious battle against France.

Full stack versus Full stack. My infantry is mostly militia, and their cavalry is almost exclusively Sergeants, while mine is half Mail half Feudal/Chivalric. So my strategy is to pin their line with my infantry and focus my cavalry and break through it.

As the battle is raging and my cavalry are starting to push through, I get a cutscene of the French general exploding.

I'm like, "WTF?!" I don't have any siege equipment with me. I don't even have any peasant archers.

As the French line breaks and I start taking prisoners, I spot a very guilty looking French Catapult unit running away with the rest of the army.

[Darth Wong]

That reminds me of one battle where the enemy put their Bombard cannons in the midst of their infantry and proceeded to blast flaming holes in their own formation. The best part was that the Bombard cannon operators had movement trouble because they were in the midst of an infantry formation, so they often stood in the wrong place and got blown up too. Eventually the Bombard unit basically destroyed itself, killing off so many of its own members who stood too close to the muzzle that it was down to 2 guys and couldn't operate the weapon.

[Vympel]

That reminds me of one battle where the enemy put their Bombard cannons in the midst of their infantry and proceeded to blast flaming holes in their own formation. The best part was that the Bombard cannon operators had movement trouble because they were in the midst of an infantry formation, so they often stood in the wrong place and got blown up too. Eventually the Bombard unit basically destroyed itself, killing off so many of its own members who stood too close to the muzzle that it was down to 2 guys and couldn't operate the weapon.

I've had that happen to me- accidents happen when you order your Bombard to fire in the midst of a reposition- the 40 guys who actually make up the unit won't take their "standard" positions, they'll just stop and stand wherever, and boom several will be killed when the guns fire

Learned my lesson quick though- only let it happen twice before I realized.

I love Trebuchets, though. I wasn't a fan of Kingdom of Heaven, but I think of that movie whenever I'm bombarding a city (or enemy army) with them.

That's another gripe I have with the 2-year-per-turn timescale- you don't have enough time to even develop a Siege Works to get Trebuchets before gunpowder arrives and it's pointless to have them anymore (except for defending cities with them as a sort of poor man's mortar). The timescale just fraks a lot of things up. I didn't use them in my England game- no time. I got by on Catapults and switched to Bombards/ Mortars/ Culverins ASAP.

Heck, if CA had their way, in my current Greek game I'd have only just got Kataphrakts in the 1300s or so

[wautd]

I just got past the Black Death. This time, it wasn't as bad as when I was playing with France, but then again, this time I was more prepared.

I'm pretty much the sole power in western Europe. I'm now the uncontested provider of Pope replacements while all but Hungary are in poor standings towards the Church.

I provoked the HRE attacking me, which made them excommunicated. This allowed me to take their last city without too much hassle.

Denmark is annoying in having big fleets they use they blockade ports. However, they only have those 2 settlements with laughable garrisons in Scaninavia left and their king guarding the land bridge with half a stack. A high quality army is about to attack their king and grab what left of their land.

Poland keeps attacking my borders but fails so far. Their latest cavalry units were an unpleasant suprise tough. They seemed to be able to butcher my spearmen quite easely. Same with Russian cav, which now joined the fight as well ever since we shared a border.

For the rest of surviving factions in europe:
Cold war with Venice in the way they're not actually doing anything. Hungary is rather peacefull. All I see of the Byzantium Empire is a diplomat somewhere so they must have little territory left.
Spain & Portugal: big unknown actually. I havn't really borthered to scout all the way south yet. havn't seen Portugal in ages. Spain sends every few years a high quality army which gets stopped in the Pyrenees. That's about it for Europe

Middle east:
My colonies in eastern Turkey are completely converted. However, they are under continuous attacks from the Turks (west) and Mongols (south east). So far I can handle the Turks, but the constant Mongol attack at my border citadel is starting to take its toll. I have little time to train fresh troops, no time to have the walls/towers repeared and their installed spy allows them to blitz my city every time so no time to place stakes or put archers on the walls. Oh welll, at least they're not sending tripple sivler chevrons anymore and with the Black Death over, money is pooring in again and I can finally start to take the initiative again.

Northern Afrika:
Big unknown who or what is there. I only hope it wont be more Mongols.

[Arrow]

Last night I took on Hungary's heir and his half-stack army (of mostly militia) with my full stack army of bombards (5), longbow men (5 retinue, 1 standard), cavalry (1 feudal and the general's body guard), with armored swordsmen and dismounted knights filling out the remainder of the stack.

The battle took place during the summer, in northern Poland, along a major road. The ground was fairly flat, and I started in the open, near a manner and a village. The Hungarian dogs started off in the woods; the cowards, fearing my might, chose to hide in the trees like deer. I slowly marched my army over to him. As I approached, the sorry excuse for a heir showed some backbone, sent out some of his men from the trees.

Under the cover of my longbow men, my infantry and my bombards advanced over a small crest, to within point blank range of his line. The first volley from my bombards ripped apart his formations, and sent his crossbow men and peasants into a route. The heir, one of his family members and the few nobles in his ranks held their ground, until the second volley.

The second volley killed not only the heir's relative, but the heir's nerve, as well. But to their credit, the nobles withdrew in orderly fashion. Or at least they did until my Feudal Cavalry and a unit of dismounted knights jumped them in the woods. It was a quick fight, but these two units fought with the strength of ten, decimating the withdrawing forces, and scatting the few that survived their fury into ever direction. Some were shot down by my longbows, others ran into a wall of my most eager infantry, and the rest were tramped under the horse's of my glorious general's body guard. Only thirty men of a thousand survived my army's attack; unfortunately, Hungary's cowardly heir was among that number, having run off field of battle faster than any other.

I will have his head on a pike before today is out!

[Stravo]

Is the patch out yet? I checked on Saturday and nada but haven't been able to since. I just can't play this anymore without getting rid of some of the more annoying bugs.