It's over, Sony is finished

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Xisiqomelir
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Post by Xisiqomelir »

Praxis wrote:Dragon Quest is almost as big as FF in Japan and a system-seller. The loss of it as a Sony exclusive is a HUGE blow.
I agree with your assessment of the impact to Sony, but you are mistaken about DQ's status in Japan. It is the Star Wars of their VG industry.

A quick comparison:

All non-8bit figures from vgcharts.org, Famicom numbers from the-magicbox.com

Dragon Quest VII 4,103,250
Dragon Quest VIII 3,609,000
Dragon Quest VI 3,188,500
Dragon Quest IV 3,029,000
Dragon Quest V 2,782,750
Dragon Quest Monsters 2,338,000
Dragon Quest V
(PS2 Remake) 1,647,250
Dragon Quest III (SNES) 1,360,000
Dragon Quest IV
(PS Remake) 1,198,000
Dragon Quest Monsters 2:
Cobis Journey 1,156,250
Dragon Quest I&II SNES 1,148,500
Dragon Quest III GB 815,250
Dragon Quest I & II GB 769,750
Dragon Quest Monsters
III: Caravan Heart 645,500
Dragon Quest Monsters
2: Taras Adventure 402,750
Slime Mori Mori
Dragon Quest 359,750
Slime Mori Mori
Dragon Quest 2 326,500
Dragon Quest Yangus 314,500
Dragon Quest
Monsters I&II (PS) 302,500
Dragon Quest & Final Fantasy
in Itadaki Street Portable 105,250
(I counted this game 2x)
adding Famicom:
Dragon Quest III 3,800,000
Dragon Quest IV 3,100,000
Dragon Quest II 2,400,000
Dragon Quest 1,500,000


Total DQ mainseries+spinoff sales in JP: 40,420,250

Final Fantasy VIII 3,630,250
Final Fantasy VII 3,277,500
Final Fantasy IX 2,777,000
Final Fantasy X 2,736,750
Final Fantasy VI 2,547,750
Final Fantasy V 2,436,250
Final Fantasy XII 2,348,750
Final Fantasy X-2 2,112,250
Final Fantasy III 1,390,000
Final Fantasy Tactics 1,342,000
Final Fantasy IV 1,326,000
Final Fantasy III DS 888,750
Final Fantasy VII International 587,000 (haha, expats)
Final Fantasy Wonderswan 508,250
Dirge of Cerberus:
Final Fantasy VII 493,000
Final Fantasy
Tactics Advance 458,000
Final Fantasy Collection 420,000
Final Fantasy:
Crystal Chronicles 358,250
Final Fantasy I & II 291,500
Final Fantasy IV PS 287,750
Final Fantasy X-2 International 287,250
Final Fantasy X International 274,750
Final Fantasy II Wonderswan 252,250
Final Fantasy V Advance 228,750
Final Fantasy IV 225,500
Final Fantasy V PS 157,000
Final Fantasy VI Advance 140,500
Dragon Quest & Final Fantasy
in Itadaki Street Portable 105,250
Final Fantasy XI Aht Urhgan Expansion 101,250
Final Fantasy VI PS 75,500
Final Fantasy XI 15,500
adding Famicom:
Final Fantasy III 1,400,000
(FF1/2 aren't on magicbox, so I assume they never went platinum in JP)


Total FF mainseries+spinoff sales in JP: 33,193,250
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Post by Praxis »

Wait, what? Dragon Quest OUTSELLS Final Fantasy in Japan?

I didn't know that was possible...
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Post by Darth Raptor »

Praxis wrote:Wait, what? Dragon Quest OUTSELLS Final Fantasy in Japan?

I didn't know that was possible...
They call it SquareEnix, but in truth Enix devoured Square after the disaster that was Final Science Fiction. And they've been doing a better job, IMO; Dirge of Cerberus notwithstanding. As you probably know, the DS has FFIII, a Crystal Chronicles sequel and an FFXII sequel on the way.
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Post by Xisiqomelir »

Praxis wrote:Wait, what? Dragon Quest OUTSELLS Final Fantasy in Japan?
Hence, "It's over, Sony is finished". ;)
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Post by Praxis »

The PSP is finished and the PS3 is endangered...as long as FFXIII is still exclusive Sony still has *some* chance.

Let's see...

Nintendo DS:
Final Fantasy III
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Ring of Fates
Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings
Dragon Quest IX
Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker

Nintendo Wii:
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Crystal Bearers
Dragon Quest Swords

Sony PSP:
Final Fantasy VII: Before Crisis

Sony PS3:
Final Fantasy XIII
Final Fantasy Versus XIII


Ouch for Sony. Their only advantage is the numbered Final Fantasy sequel.
I almost feel sorry for them. Almost.
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Post by Darth Raptor »

Is there any chance that the PS3 will sink so fast I can get FFXIII and MGS4 on the Wii? Because those two games are the only reasons I would even consider the new PlayStation (and even then, only when it comes down to a "you can keep that kidney" price). Ah, dreams. :D
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Post by General Zod »

Darth Raptor wrote:Is there any chance that the PS3 will sink so fast I can get FFXIII and MGS4 on the Wii? Because those two games are the only reasons I would even consider the new PlayStation (and even then, only when it comes down to a "you can keep that kidney" price). Ah, dreams. :D
The XBox 360 might get MGS4. Maybe. But I wouldn't count on the Wii having the graphical power to handle either of those two games.
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Post by Praxis »

Darth Raptor wrote:Is there any chance that the PS3 will sink so fast I can get FFXIII and MGS4 on the Wii? Because those two games are the only reasons I would even consider the new PlayStation (and even then, only when it comes down to a "you can keep that kidney" price). Ah, dreams. :D
The Wii probably won't have the power to run either games...though if Final Fantasy XIII's game engine is simple (no crazy physics or anything that requires a lot of processing power), they could probably create a Wii down-port running a similar game engine but lower-power graphics engine.

I think it more likely that those games might get XBox 360 ports for American audiences (it would take a heckuvalot to sell a 360 to the Japanese audience).
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Post by DPDarkPrimus »

Darth Raptor wrote:Is there any chance that the PS3 will sink so fast I can get FFXIII and MGS4 on the Wii? Because those two games are the only reasons I would even consider the new PlayStation (and even then, only when it comes down to a "you can keep that kidney" price). Ah, dreams. :D
Kojima is contractually obligated to put MGS4 on the PS3. And let's be realistic here: even if Sony truly is in it's death throes now, it will be several more years before the effects are actually felt.
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Post by Ghost Rider »

The loss of DQ9 is rather stunning given the sheer monstrocity it is in Japan.

One it is Sony losing an icon. For people underestimating this, Japan has made laws against selling this game on days in fear of people purposefully skipping school and work for the game. It makes Final Fantasy, tekken, and everything else look pathetic in terms of iconic status.

It won't crush Sony because no company is this reliant upon a single part, especially something on the size of Sony...but this is a ballkicker for the PS3.
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Post by Elaro »

Ghost Rider wrote:The loss of DQ9 is rather stunning given the sheer monstrocity it is in Japan.

One it is Sony losing an icon. For people underestimating this, Japan has made laws against selling this game on days in fear of people purposefully skipping school and work for the game. It makes Final Fantasy, tekken, and everything else look pathetic in terms of iconic status.

It won't crush Sony because no company is this reliant upon a single part, especially something on the size of Sony...but this is a ballkicker for the PS3.
PS3.. which Sony invested millions (billions?) into... Which is the only reason to get a Blu-Ray player... Many departments in Sony would suffer from the loss of the PS3 in the console wars.

The Playstation 3, despite its name, is now more of a flagship product for the entirety of Sony Corp. (except their financial services, of course). Certainly, Sony won't be doomed by the PS3's failure, but it will be significantly weakened.
Last edited by Elaro on 2006-12-12 07:18pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Vympel »

Never heard of this game myself.
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Post by Ghost Rider »

Vympel wrote:Never heard of this game myself.
You might not have, but Japan worships it as nearly the second coming :P .

Though all in all, even in America the game is practically an unknown, who knows overseas honestly. Still the way that Enix cares of overseas market, I'm amazed we got DQ7 and 8 given the way they handled DQ4 over here.
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Post by Drooling Iguana »

So is this going to be a Zelda/SoM-type game, rather than a traditional RPG then? It looked that way from the video.
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Post by SAMAS »

Vympel wrote:Never heard of this game myself.
If you ever played an NES:, remember Dragon Warrior? That was the US versions.
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Post by Xisiqomelir »

Wired has a good write-up about how DQ is big in Japan, and how this will affect hardware sales in the upcoming months.

Tuesday, 12 December 2006
Dragon Quest on DS: What It Means
Topic: Japan,Portable Gaming

I think everyone can agree that today's announcement that Dragon Quest IX will appear on Nintendo DS is shocking and meaningful, but I imagine that not everyone is quite sure why. Certainly it is a bad day to be Sony, who just lost another major exclusive. Dragon Quest VIII was the best-selling PlayStation 2 game in Japan. Not the best-selling RPG or the best-selling Square Enix game -- the single biggest PS2 game, ever.
Beyond that, though, there are many things to consider, which I'll be trying to work out after the jump (or below, depending on how you got here).

There were rumblings that Square Enix would indeed announce Dragon Quest IX at this press event. Mostly because they wouldn't hold a big to-do like this without something really major to show, and the other options -- a spin-off, or a remake of an older game -- weren't going to cut it.

However, there was one big reason that they wouldn't show off DQIX -- because it's too early to decide what next-generation system should be the home of Japan's biggest franchise. Square Enix has traditionally waited to see what the outcome of the console wars would be before committing Dragon Quest to a platform. This is why DQVII and DQVIII arrived so late in the lifecycles of PlayStation 1 and 2, respectively -- because Square Enix didn't start development until they were sure the audience was there.
But there was a third outcome that none of us had considered, and that was that DQIX might appear on Nintendo DS. If we take as gospel the fact that Dragon Quest goes to the system with the highest userbase, it makes sense. DS is on track to outsell every other game console in the history of Japan.

Not to mention the fact that the DS, both as a product and in its branding and image, is an embodiment of the feeling that the DQ series seeks to embrace. DQ is played by hardcore gamer nerds, sure, but it's also for little kids and moms and dads and retirees. It's a simple, accessible game for everybody. It's Japan's equivalent of Disney movies.

In that sense, why not put it on DS? The only real barrier was that the Dragon Quest games had always been on home consoles. But it's getting to the point where there's no difference. Sure, it's not going to look as pretty as Dragon Quest VIII, but the screenshots that have been released prove that the Nintendo DS has no trouble with Akira Toriyama's art style. Plus, DQVIII was really the only game in the series that exuded any sort of technical prowess, anyway. Dragon Quest 7 looked like total ass for a PSone game and Japan bought four million of them.

DQIX might be the first four-million-selling game on Nintendo DS.
That's something else. Square Enix stands to rake it in on this. They could spend three years and 30 million dollars making DQIX for PlayStation 3, then barely scrape that money back. Or they could make a killing on DQIX while they wait. You might call this opportunistic; I call it Nintendo's business strategy coming into its own. You might say that this heralds the death of home gaming consoles; I say there's no reason Wii can't do the same thing.

Also requiring some thought is the new direction the gameplay is taking. Dragon Quest VIII was a staunchly traditional RPG that outright rejected change -- besides the graphics, it felt very much like a game from fifteen years ago. But Dragon Quest IX features a real-time battle system and a four-player mode. Square Enix isn't particularly forthcoming about how the four-player online game and the single-player mode will be balanced, or which is the "main" mode. But since it'll be released next year, we won't have to wait long to find out.

Speaking of which, the timing of this announcement must also be considered. It's the week before Jump Festa, of course, at which Square Enix will have a sprawling booth filled with playable, anticipated titles. But it's also just weeks before the release of Dragon Quest Monsters Joker, a Pokemon-styled monster-collecting-battling spinoff of the main series.
DQMJ was already pretty much guaranteed to go over a million units on the strength of the franchise and the fact that it looks pretty damn good. But now, Dragon Quest lovers know that they'll need a Nintendo DS to play the next game in their favorite series. And with a spinoff game out this month, quite a few of them will decide that it's the right time to take the plunge.

I don't even want to speculate, now, what Nintendo DS sales will be in Japan over the holiday. It'll make the 900,000 units they moved in November here in the US look like a rounding error.

There are still, I'm sure, some holdouts who believe DQIX to be a stopgap measure and that the tenth game in the series could still appear on PlayStation 3. But it won't. Because between DQ Monsters this year and DQIX/DQ Swords the next, Square Enix is sending a very strong message to the Dragon Quest fan base: buy Nintendo hardware. They're not going to pull a fast one on them a year from now and say, "Just kidding, suckers! If you want DQX, it's time to pony up 60,000 yen for PlayStation 3!"
Not going to happen. I think the only question that remains is whether they'll keep the series portable, or release DQX for the home. And ultimately the answer will only come after we see the sales of Wii and PS3. If Wii can dominate the market DS-style, then it's entirely possible.
But that's hardly guaranteed: for all Sony's problems, they're still Sony. And with Xbox 360 having completely shit the bed, PlayStation 3 is the only choice in Japan for anyone who's looking for the full high-end upscale entertainment experience -- which, say what you will about Japan's taste in gaming, is still a whole lot of people. And they've got the lock on Final Fantasy.

And yet, if DQIX is truly a sign of a turning tide, the fact that the Nintendo DS is getting loaded up with Final Fantasy games (Revenant Wings, Crystal Chronicles, III, and God knows what else), it could be the Nintendo DS lineup that's seen as the true continuation of the Final Fantasy series, and the PS3 games might become less relevant. I know that sounds crazy but hey, Dragon Quest IX is on DS. Welcome to Crazytown.

Posted by Chris Kohler 2:47 PM
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Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

Funny, but the DS gif is funnier, but only because the animation is faster. :)
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Post by Darth Wong »

I don't know why anyone would have expected platform loyalty from the developers anyway. A lot has changed since the days when Sony was perceived as a juggernaut in the console wars, so there's no reason for the kind of developer confidence that led to people busting their balls to make PS2 games.
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Post by Dorsk 81 »

Praxis wrote:The PSP is finished and the PS3 is endangered...as long as FFXIII is still exclusive Sony still has *some* chance.

<snip>

Ouch for Sony. Their only advantage is the numbered Final Fantasy sequel.
I almost feel sorry for them. Almost.
One franchise shouldn't be enough to keep the platform going, anyone who buys a PS3 purely for FFXIII, and the hope the future FF games are PS3 exclusives, or on the basis of any single title for that matter, is either an idiot, has more money than sense, or is just a Sony fanwhore. I wouldn't be surprised if there are enough of all three though.
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Post by Lagmonster »

Dorsk 81 wrote:One franchise shouldn't be enough to keep the platform going, anyone who buys a PS3 purely for FFXIII, and the hope the future FF games are PS3 exclusives, or on the basis of any single title for that matter, is either an idiot, has more money than sense, or is just a Sony fanwhore. I wouldn't be surprised if there are enough of all three though.
I wouldn't take bets against it; In fact, I'd take even shitty odds on thousands of gamers buying consoles entirely on the impetus to play one game which interests them, and if they find another two or three that are good later on, so much the better.

In fact seconded, I know of two guys who bought an XBox 360 entirely to play one sports game, and haven't played so much as one other game at all besides that.
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Post by Sharp-kun »

I know people who bought the Wii just for Zelda. It happens.
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Post by Andrew J. »

It has always been the philosophy of DQ's creators to put their games on the systems with the largest install base. The 360 tanked in Japan and it's too soon after the other launches, so there really wasn't a viable current-gen home console to put IX on. I guess they didn't want to wait until there was a clear home console dominator to start development.
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Post by Praxis »

Dorsk 81 wrote:
Praxis wrote:The PSP is finished and the PS3 is endangered...as long as FFXIII is still exclusive Sony still has *some* chance.

<snip>

Ouch for Sony. Their only advantage is the numbered Final Fantasy sequel.
I almost feel sorry for them. Almost.
One franchise shouldn't be enough to keep the platform going, anyone who buys a PS3 purely for FFXIII, and the hope the future FF games are PS3 exclusives, or on the basis of any single title for that matter, is either an idiot, has more money than sense, or is just a Sony fanwhore. I wouldn't be surprised if there are enough of all three though.
Final Fantasy is big enough in Japan for this to happen.

Not in the U.S. probably (though a lot will, but the minority).
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Post by frogcurry »

Judging from the sales figures its going to be PS3 versus Wii in Japan for the future to come. So I imagine any sensible company will release on both platforms to avoid losing sales. PS3 isn't going to die, its just going to exist in a world with more than one console. (wii doesn't really compete with PS3 anyway- its PS3 vs Xbox, and Wii as the third way).

BTW I don't see what there is to stop Sony/ Microsoft just making a Wii style controller. Is it patented?
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