German Government considers jail time for gamers...

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2006-12-13 08:39pm

Link

Words fail me...

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2006-12-13 08:45pm

Seconded, the utter stupidity of this proposition amazes me.

The Vortex Empire · Post by **The Vortex Empire** » 2006-12-13 08:55pm

Thirded, I can't believe people can be this moronic. Words fail me.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2006-12-13 09:35pm

Fuck, and here I thought Germany was one of the more reasonable countries out there. *scratches Germany off his list of possible countries to visit/move to*

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2006-12-13 09:36pm

This makes American legislators look like geniuses. Did the Germans even bother to look at the actual causes for the two incidents they sight? I know German still has issues with violence, but come on folks, get a grip! This isn't helping the problem.

Jadeite · Post by **Jadeite** » 2006-12-13 10:48pm

I'll be the first to call them what they are: pussies. Goddamn, Germany lost any coolness it used to have.

TheMuffinKing · Post by **TheMuffinKing** » 2006-12-13 11:19pm

This is why Germany is becoming a pussified suburb of Turkey.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2006-12-14 12:56am

I guess starting two world wars, installing Hitler, and the Holocaust just weren't enough...

sparrowtm · Post by **sparrowtm** » 2006-12-14 01:09am

edit: Nevermind. I was misinformed.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2006-12-14 01:11am

sparrowtm wrote:edit: Nevermind. I was misinformed.

WTF?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-12-14 10:11am

What is the realistic chance of this proposal passing? I don't really see the difference between this and some of the more draconian child-porn laws which have ended up getting people classified as sex offenders because of pictures of their kids taking a bath. They're both based on the same kind of hysteria.

I'll be the first to call them what they are: pussies. Goddamn, Germany lost any coolness it used to have.

Are you seriously suggesting that the old racist militarist xenophobic Germany was "cool"?

Thunderfire · Post by **Thunderfire** » 2006-12-14 10:27am

Darth Wong wrote:What is the realistic chance of this proposal passing? I

They will score a BIG own when they try to implement it. This one has no Chance in the EU and germany would have to liberalize the gaming rules if the EU decides to step in.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-12-14 10:28am

Darth Wong wrote: Are you seriously suggesting that the old racist militarist xenophobic Germany was "cool"?

They were too busy invading other nations to sit around making up stupid law proposals at least.

This is just absurd. I cannot believe the First World is suffocating itself in bureacracy this bad. It's like no one can use common sense and logic anymore, instead, you have to have a piece of legislation detailing what is to be done for any possible scenario.

It's sickening how dumb humanity can be at times.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2006-12-14 10:51am

Thunderfire wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:What is the realistic chance of this proposal passing? I
They will score a BIG own when they try to implement it. This one has no Chance in the EU and germany would have to liberalize the gaming rules if the EU decides to step in.

Unfortunately gaming is still seen as a 'niche' thing by a good deal of people. We may have to wait until some douchebag tries doing the same to the movie industry before it wakes up anyone in authority to overturn it.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2006-12-14 11:30am

Darth Wong wrote:What is the realistic chance of this proposal passing? I don't really see the difference between this and some of the more draconian child-porn laws which have ended up getting people classified as sex offenders because of pictures of their kids taking a bath. They're both based on the same kind of hysteria.

Probably next to nothing, but it's unfortunate that this kind of illogical reasoning is everywhere.

Thunderfire · Post by **Thunderfire** » 2006-12-14 12:14pm

General Zod wrote: Unfortunately gaming is still seen as a 'niche' thing by a good deal of people. We may have to wait until some douchebag tries doing the same to the movie industry before it wakes up anyone in authority to overturn it.

Politicans only go for easy targets. The farewell letter of the guy spoke only about movies and not about computergames AFAIK.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-12-14 12:18pm

Stupid law proposals are not just an American thing.

The chance of this passing in virtually zero. Most of the time these radical bills are just a way for a politician to show off and score points with his voters.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2006-12-14 12:44pm

Let me add, that this shit come from the usual suspects, nothing new. It will take some time before someone tell them that they had said totally stupid things, and they will burry it without much notice.

Sady this kind of loud protest/scandal/ban- crying has become rather common since last year. Because of the big coalitaion, the political parties can't attack each other directly. So they have to find other targets to create publicity.

So don't take it too serious. Remember this:
Only ~10% of the population (more likely less) trust politicans
Over 40% are convinced, politicians are corrupt and only think about themselves

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2006-12-14 01:11pm

Tribun wrote: So don't take it too serious. Remember this:
Only ~10% of the population (more likely less) trust politicans
Over 40% are convinced, politicians are corrupt and only think about themselves

I think the possibility is quite high that something like this will be implemented. Maybe not with this attempt, but just wait for the next massacre, especially in election time. This time, the Usual Suspects went even further than after the last time and I don't think they will just stop now...

BabelHuber · Post by **BabelHuber** » 2006-12-14 01:23pm

The bill, which was introduced last week by the states of Bavaria and Lower Saxony, proposes a new offence. Those found guilty of "cruel violence on humans or human-looking characters" could face fines or jail time of up to 12 months--and those it applies to include developers, retailers, and consumers, reports UK newspaper The Guardian.

To put this into perspective: Germany has a federal organization where the Federal Assembly (Bundesrat) has some weight.
Now, two of 16 states proposed this stupid law. Saxony and Bavaria have very conservative governments, by the way. There is no way in hell this passes through the parliament.

It's again an attempt of a few right-wing politicians to make some noise. Of course additionally they don't know what they are talking about. One must not take this too seriously.

OTOH there is an ongoing discussion in Germany about Ego-Shooters. But forbidding Video Games for adults is not so easy. After all the constitution is still valid, and it has a few words about freedom written in it.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2006-12-14 04:21pm

BabelHuber wrote: To put this into perspective: Germany has a federal organization where the Federal Assembly (Bundesrat) has some weight.
Now, two of 16 states proposed this stupid law. Saxony and Bavaria have very conservative governments, by the way. There is no way in hell this passes through the parliament.

It's again an attempt of a few right-wing politicians to make some noise. Of course additionally they don't know what they are talking about. One must not take this too seriously.

OTOH there is an ongoing discussion in Germany about Ego-Shooters. But forbidding Video Games for adults is not so easy. After all the constitution is still valid, and it has a few words about freedom written in it.

To put that into perspective...
The current coalition has a point in the colation contract specifically saying that meassures should be taken to do something against "killer video games".
And those two outspoken states together hold 12 votes in the Bundesrat (of 69). Given the composition of the current Bundesrat, with many states in conservative hands, it is not that unlikely they will find enough votes to get the ball rolling, so to speak.

And it would be quite easy to simply ban it. While the constitution has a bit written about freedom of expression, it is not an absolute freedom. Given the amount of things banned to buy/produce/sell, I don't see why video games should be any different. Implementing such a thing is a completely different animal, though.

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2006-12-14 04:30pm

I've only visited Germany, but I realised this must be sensationalism when I saw it was by Bavaria. The things I noticed about Bavaria when I was there were this: very old, very dumb, very white.

Tolya · Post by **Tolya** » 2006-12-14 05:21pm

Okay, take the stupid Germany laws.

Multiply the stupidity and medievalistic elements in proposed laws, say, by 10.

Welcome to Poland.

I am oversimplifying of course, but from my perspective, Germany is a country I would really LIKE to live in.

I wouldn't call Poland a shithole (although Im tempted) - the whole country suffered through those years of communism.

Whoops, I'll end now. Sorry for hijacking, If anyone wants to add something, make a split thread.

</rant>

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-12-14 08:35pm

Tolya wrote:Okay, take the stupid Germany laws.

Multiply the stupidity and medievalistic elements in proposed laws, say, by 10.

Welcome to Poland.

I am oversimplifying of course, but from my perspective, Germany is a country I would really LIKE to live in.

I wouldn't call Poland a shithole (although Im tempted) - the whole country suffered through those years of communism.

Whoops, I'll end now. Sorry for hijacking, If anyone wants to add something, make a split thread.

</rant>

This would account for why the Polish currently reside in the UK, while Poland leeches off neighbouring states for manpower. It's a funny cycle almost.

Okay, maybe it's more than just bad media legislation, but you get my point.

Tolya · Post by **Tolya** » 2006-12-15 11:42am

This would account for why the Polish currently reside in the UK, while Poland leeches off neighbouring states for manpower. It's a funny cycle almost.

Okay, maybe it's more than just bad media legislation, but you get my point.

Emigration of Poles to UK and other european country is a sad fact. But it actually comes as two distinct matters:

1) Professional workers (doctors, nurses, engineers, computer techies & programmers) get the hell out of here because they can earn MUCH more in another country.

For example, a basic salary for a doctor working in a hospital is, around 400 dollars a MONTH. This is a fucking disgrace - people who study for several years and are one of the most important occupations in a civilised country earn less than I do now - as a young, semiamateur automotive journalist.

So they get the hell outta here, as some of the best (including good surgeons) can go to Switzerland and earn around 4000 euro. And they are treated with respect and work in good conditions.

2) The bigger group are young people, some professional, some not, mostly students or fresh graduates. These are the people who go to UK to earn some money (just like Mexicans in southern USA).

It really beats me why someone with higher education travels to another country to serve beer, sweep the floors or (one of the best case scenarios) to become a phone monkey at some helpcenter (like my friend). The pay is quite nice, compared to what they can earn in Poland but if they get back here they will have no future. Why? Getting a good job in Poland is not impossible, but it requires some basic awareness, persistence and presence on the job market. The best thing to do is to try to find something during your studies and after graduating you have much bigger chances of getting a decent job, because you can actually present a CV with some content in the experience section.

And about manpower leeching: there are some moves in our government to open the job market to the east, for the places like Ukraine. There are already some chinese workgroups at the shipyard in Gdansk.