Battlestar Galactica music video

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-12-14 01:28pm

NeoBSG fans actually remind me of hardcore B5 fans during that show's heyday. I liked B5, partially because it wasn't quite so "LOOK AT ME I'M GRITTY!!!!" as neoBSG, but the show had plenty of flaws and there was a time that anyone who disliked it was attacked for being a philistine who had no appreciation for its greatness (and don't give me bullshit about how SW fans do the same thing; the prequels have gotten slagged far worse than anything anyone has ever said about neoBSG or B5, and most SW fans don't react with anywhere near as much hostility).

I think part of it is the notion that shows like this are "relevant" and "important" rather than being mere entertainment.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2006-12-14 02:18pm

While obviously I can't speak for every nBSG fan, but personally if someone made a show that had the elements of nBSG that I like but without the grittiness or the attempts to shoehorn in current events then I'm pretty sure I'd like that too.

On that note, I have seen some of my fellow SW fans defend SW's honor very zealously. Obviously they're not going to represent the group as a whole but I do recall Kynes at one point referring to the empire as "we."

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2006-12-14 03:24pm

Stark wrote:
Stofsk wrote:I agree with you, actually, and made a similar point earlier in this thread.
It's actually rare to meet nBSG fans that are as reasonable as the guys here: most people want to stone you and throw you down the well if you don't love it like a woman.

I like it a whole lot and don't feel the need to strangle someone else with it. Like what Wong said about Bab5, that show had fun parts and dumb parts, and I saw them both. Hell, when I watched the first season of 24 just recently I was groaning through it halfway through from things I felt were just intolerably shoddy writing. I'm more than capable of bucking the herd mentality, so for someone to resist the 'hurricane of inevitability' about nBSG strikes me as perfectly normal. When someone dredging up reasons or hating on the show simply because some actor's character is now female, then I think that's just silly, but on the other hand I can understand how it might be hard to swollow Luke or Jack O'Neill as a female, no matter how well acted.

I'd like nBSG if it was by another name, but I'm glad they did use the name, because I like a lot of the BSG stuff but just did not like much of whatever else I saw from the original show. I don't think it's so bad to make a seperate 'Infinites Universe' version of the original plot. I'd like to see a 'gritty' star wars show some time, with billions of clones rather than 2 million. Talk about not being true to your premise! It's a chance to enjoy the cool ship designs and novel ideas, but without having to saddle then with some profoundly wierd messages. I watched a few of those episodes and they really remind me of the Buck Rogers 1980's show.

I don't understand people's need to defend a show that was obviously popular and good enough to spawn a 're-imagined' version that's now at the top of the charts. Is it just out of spite, or malice, or what? If you think the show sucks, then say that, but what I take exception to are all the lousy arguments for hating the show. Why's it so hard to hold an opinion somewhere between 'Second Coming' and 'The Antichrist'?

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2006-12-14 03:42pm

Darth Wong wrote:NeoBSG fans actually remind me of hardcore B5 fans during that show's heyday. I liked B5, partially because it wasn't quite so "LOOK AT ME I'M GRITTY!!!!" as neoBSG, but the show had plenty of flaws and there was a time that anyone who disliked it was attacked for being a philistine who had no appreciation for its greatness (and don't give me bullshit about how SW fans do the same thing; the prequels have gotten slagged far worse than anything anyone has ever said about neoBSG or B5, and most SW fans don't react with anywhere near as much hostility).

Case in point: I just received a PM from "concerned parties" that I'm "pursuing a vendetta against the new Gallactica series and it's fans"!!

I'm doing nothing different than I've ever done here, which is defend my position. If anything, these "concerned parties" should be concerned with the zealotry of the nBSG fans who react so harshly to any criticism whatsoever about the new show. There's usually six threads at a time on the "Other Scifi" about nBSG. I haven't spoken out about my dislike of the new show since the couple comments I made after it aired, because I recognized there's a lot of people that like the new show. It's only after I read recently that Ron Moore was preparing to "re-imagine" yet another project I like, "The Thing" that I said anything further.

It should be noted that I've NEVER received a similar PM from any Trekkie, ever. That says volumes about nBSG fans.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2006-12-14 04:12pm

Lord Poe wrote: It should be noted that I've NEVER received a similar PM from any Trekkie, ever. That says volumes about nBSG fans.

All of them?

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2006-12-14 04:28pm

Spyder wrote:
Lord Poe wrote: It should be noted that I've NEVER received a similar PM from any Trekkie, ever. That says volumes about nBSG fans.
All of them?

I'll let you know.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2006-12-14 05:05pm

Lord Poe wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:NeoBSG fans actually remind me of hardcore B5 fans during that show's heyday. I liked B5, partially because it wasn't quite so "LOOK AT ME I'M GRITTY!!!!" as neoBSG, but the show had plenty of flaws and there was a time that anyone who disliked it was attacked for being a philistine who had no appreciation for its greatness (and don't give me bullshit about how SW fans do the same thing; the prequels have gotten slagged far worse than anything anyone has ever said about neoBSG or B5, and most SW fans don't react with anywhere near as much hostility).
Case in point: I just received a PM from "concerned parties" that I'm "pursuing a vendetta against the new Gallactica series and it's fans"!!

I'm doing nothing different than I've ever done here, which is defend my position. If anything, these "concerned parties" should be concerned with the zealotry of the nBSG fans who react so harshly to any criticism whatsoever about the new show. There's usually six threads at a time on the "Other Scifi" about nBSG. I haven't spoken out about my dislike of the new show since the couple comments I made after it aired, because I recognized there's a lot of people that like the new show. It's only after I read recently that Ron Moore was preparing to "re-imagine" yet another project I like, "The Thing" that I said anything further.

It should be noted that I've NEVER received a similar PM from any Trekkie, ever. That says volumes about nBSG fans.

They aren't asking you to like it. They are asking you to shut the fuck up and leave them alone because they quite litteraly don't give a rats ass about your opinion and happen to like the show. Your zealotry comes off as trying to insult the fans of the new BSG. You dont like it, fine. Thats your opinion and your happy to it. But the frequency in which you jump into BSG related threads to continue saying how much you don't like BSG in threads on episodes you have never watched when its obvious that the people taking part in the threads care very little for your opinion essentialy makes you a troll on the subject. Thats why you got that warning from me in the OSF thread you were trolling on BSG.

Your tendency to ignore peoples stated reasons for liking the new BSG and disliking the old BSG while interposing with your own views of their reasons is a rather juvenile act.

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2006-12-14 05:10pm

Lord Poe wrote:Case in point: I just received a PM from "concerned parties" that I'm "pursuing a vendetta against the new Gallactica series and it's fans"!!

I'm doing nothing different than I've ever done here, which is defend my position. If anything, these "concerned parties" should be concerned with the zealotry of the nBSG fans who react so harshly to any criticism whatsoever about the new show. There's usually six threads at a time on the "Other Scifi" about nBSG. I haven't spoken out about my dislike of the new show since the couple comments I made after it aired, because I recognized there's a lot of people that like the new show. It's only after I read recently that Ron Moore was preparing to "re-imagine" yet another project I like, "The Thing" that I said anything further.

Have you actually read the episode threads, perhaps even the recent ones? There has been many a fan who criticizes the various parts of the show themselves. So I'd really like to see where you're coming from with this.

It should be noted that I've NEVER received a similar PM from any Trekkie, ever. That says volumes about nBSG fans.

Blimey for the rest of us that one person actually decided to do such a thing.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2006-12-14 05:12pm

Alyeska wrote:They aren't asking you to like it. They are asking you to shut the fuck up and leave them alone because they quite litteraly don't give a rats ass about your opinion and happen to like the show.

Then they should cease posting in a thread where THE OLD BSG IS BEING COMPARED TO THE NEW BSG. Or is being on topic now frowned upon?

Your zealotry comes off as trying to insult the fans of the new BSG.

I give what I get. I'm being insulted for being a fan of the old show.

You dont like it, fine. Thats your opinion and your happy to it. But the frequency in which you jump into BSG related threads to continue saying how much you don't like BSG in threads

Bullshit, right there. THIS thread is wholly on topic. The "Starbuck" thread I made a few silly comments in. That TWO FUCKING THREADS, one of which is purely on-topic: this one. You're the one that's acting like I'm defaming your girlfriend by how immediately hostile you become over ANY negative criticism of this show. I haven't seen you do this even in your uber-Trekkie days.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2006-12-14 05:17pm

Soontir C'boath wrote:Have you actually read the episode threads, perhaps even the recent ones?

No. I'm basing my opinion on the nBSG threads that I DO participate in.

Blimey for the rest of us that one person actually decided to do such a thing.

Oh for fuck's sake. Here, let me fix that for MOST of you anal little twats:

That says volumes about THE MAJORITY OF nBSG FANS I'VE DEBATED HERE.

Happy?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2006-12-14 05:18pm

Your doing in this thread what you have done in several others as well. Whats fair game in this thread isn't necessarily fair game in others.

Part of my irritation comes from how you immediately jumped on my first post in this thread insulting my opinion of BSG when I was staying out of that topic. Your immediate and active means of insulting every new BSG fan is whats most irritating. Your jumping people preemptively and getting people who previously didn't care. I myself wouldn't even have bothered with this discussion had you not jumped me in the first few pages. I merely made a comment on what I thought the original BSG really got right and you take that as a means to insult my opinion of the new BSG over what you think it got wrong.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2006-12-14 05:21pm

Lord Poe wrote: Oh for fuck's sake. Here, let me fix that for MOST of you anal little twats:

You wanted to know why so many people now jump you on BSG subjects? Its because of that attitude right there. You start insulting the other side outright. If you count every person who has debated you on this subject and compared to everyone who posts in new BSG threads, I wouldn't be surprised if you get less then half.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2006-12-14 05:32pm

Alyeska wrote:Your doing in this thread what you have done in several others as well. Whats fair game in this thread isn't necessarily fair game in others.

Post proof, please. Go through my posting history and PROVE how many nBSG threads I've participated in lately. This "several threads" bullshit of yours is tiring.

Part of my irritation comes from how you immediately jumped on my first post in this thread insulting my opinion of BSG when I was staying out of that topic. Your immediate and active means of insulting every new BSG fan is whats most irritating. Your jumping people preemptively and getting people who previously didn't care. I myself wouldn't even have bothered with this discussion had you not jumped me in the first few pages. I merely made a comment on what I thought the original BSG really got right and you take that as a means to insult my opinion of the new BSG over what you think it got wrong.

Because I already KNOW your opinion. My actions here are fucking tame compared to the fire and brimstone I've brought down on Trekkies, so why the sudden concern? Could it be that you and a few others are a little too emotinally invested in nBSG to take potshots in kind from oBSG fans?

You wanted to know why so many people now jump you on BSG subjects? Its because of that attitude right there. You start insulting the other side outright.

Again, nothing different than I'e done in the past. Especially if you're going to end your comment with the rolly eyes.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2006-12-14 05:48pm

Lord Poe wrote:Because I already KNOW your opinion.

You do? Please find a post made by me insulting original BSG before this thread (which was made after you jumped me). I rather liked watching BSG when I grew up and a number of episodes are still very fun to watch (Pegasus episodes being very fun). No, I don't actualy think its a shitty show, I just started bad mouthing it because I was rather irritated how you jumped me for no god damned reason.

My actions here are fucking tame compared to the fire and brimstone I've brought down on Trekkies, so why the sudden concern? Could it be that you and a few others are a little too emotinally invested in nBSG to take potshots in kind from oBSG fans?

No, I just get irritated when someone takes potshots directly at me for liking the show.

Again, nothing different than I'e done in the past. Especially if you're going to end your comment with the rolly eyes.

I didn't end my post with a smiley, you did.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2006-12-14 05:54pm

Lord Poe wrote:
Spyder wrote:
Lord Poe wrote: It should be noted that I've NEVER received a similar PM from any Trekkie, ever. That says volumes about nBSG fans.
All of them?
I'll let you know.

Your zealotry comes off as trying to insult the fans of the new BSG.
I give what I get. I'm being insulted for being a fan of the old show.

I think both sides of this argument need to re-evaluate goals here.

Is my understanding of the current situation correct?

Ron Moore makes nBSG
nBSG fans take an immediate liking to the show for various reasons
Some oBSG fans dislike nBSG and feel it is raping their childhood.
nBSG fans talk about how great nBSG is
oBSG (or a subset thereof) talk about how crap nBSG is
Argument ensues
Some nBSG fans and oBSG fans start attacking each other

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2006-12-14 06:05pm

Lord Poe wrote:t's only after I read recently that Ron Moore was preparing to "re-imagine" yet another project I like, "The Thing" that I said anything further.

Oh come on. I like nBSG, but this is ridiculous. The Thing? That movie was great, but it's not needing an update--it's already been updated once--and you can do something similar without doing THE SAME DAMN MOVIE. Can't we get out of the damn re-imagining and spiritual successor phase of bullshit yet? Every damn show and every damn movie isn't even a re-dressed version of an old story by now, they're just the same ones shot in fancy new colors with actors playing the original roles. This, the new Rocky movie, the new Superman movie that came out, etc, etc... people need to sit down, think, and come up with an idea that doesn't hinge on specific elements of original stories... and the consumers need to stop buying it.

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2006-12-14 06:06pm

I'm endlessly amused how people feel that just because there is a new version of a show, or a remake of an old movie, somehow what they see as the superiority of the original is tainted or diminished by the new version. It smacks of insecurity somehow, that what they hold precious or dear is somehow lessened when the flashy new version comes out.

I like nBSG and find it superior to oBSG, but I also don't hate oBSG (though I do find it pretty much campy and unwatchable). I don't like sitcoms all that much, but I also don't hate them. Not my cup of tea and I'm not going to get into a twist arguing with people about why I should love or hate some other show just because they do or do not, as they case my be. It's like people who scream that The Simpsons (or insert any other long-running series here) has "jumped the shark" and that because it's been on (in their opinion) for years beyond the time it should have ended its run, all the episodes they feel are best are somehow negatively affected.

I enjoy Star Wars, but I find the first 2 prequels weaker than ROTJ by degrees. But those 2 weaker films don't drag down the franchise, as far as I'm concerned. Voyager and Enterprise are largely dogs of series, but they don't make the best of TNG or DS9 any less good.

Edit (spelling)

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2006-12-14 06:12pm

It's just frustrating. I watched The Thing only once, and thought it was high quality, and if he does a good job I'll enjoy his re-imagined The Thing just fine. I don't have an emotional connection to it, and I was perfectly happy to make assessments of the new Star Wars trilogy without being bothered by the spectre of the past. It's not like what he did with the Han Shoots First episode, where it really was rape.

But it's bad writing, or unimaginitive writing, or just stupid to keep doing this. It's seriously not that hard. I don't know how these writers get jobs and get their movies through while other people with really original content seem to have such a hard time getting people to recognize the interest value of new stuff. I suppose it's really the fault of the masses who pay for a repeat, but you could hope for something better, you know? I just think it's sloppy.

It's like, after Twister, we had a thousand disaster movies. Did anyone see the re-imagined "Flight of the Phoenix"? Talk about a movie that was perfect already! I don't mind that they redid it, I can smugly say "Hah, one of my old favorites was worthy of a redo!" and feel happy about that. But it's just goofy.

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2006-12-14 07:00pm

Seriously, fuckin' who cares if someone else hates what you like? At some point you are going to end up screaming yourself hoarse. nBSG doesn't crap all over oBSG, despite what a lot of people think. Moore & Co aren't out to stomp all over the fans of the old series. Does anyone honestly think they have time to waste doing that? They've got a show to run. They aren't out to get the old show. Hell, it has all kinds of nods and references to the old series! One of the actors who initially hated the new series now has a semi-regular character on the new one and by his accounts, enjoys what the show is. I'm sure some of this has been discussed here already, I haven't had time to slog through 7 pages right now. In any event, it's an exercise in frustration trying to convince some people that A is better than B, or that A sucks rocks and B is so much better, and anything that comes after B that is a redo is somehow sacrilege. That's why I spend my time in OSF discussing nBSG or whatever else instead of gleefully coming up with clever ways to rag on something I don't like. Debate is one thing, and quite reasonable, but merely screaming about how much one hates The New Adventures Of Insert Name Here seems no more productive than pissing into the wind.

Watch what you like, enjoy it, and that should be enough.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2006-12-14 10:18pm

Holy black and white fallacy! The point isn't 'I hate nBSG and love oBSG' or the opposite. The point is that both sides jump the other when any sort of comparison is made between the two and to say that you can't compare the two is moronic.

Giving Moore an get out of jail free card because the show is an 'reinterpertaion' is straight bullshit, just as much bullshit as the nostalgia effect people use to look back on oBSG and give it a pass.

ray245 · Post by **ray245** » 2006-12-14 10:32pm

I think the name 'Gina' was aimed towards oBSG fans who called the nBSG 'GINO' Galactica in name only.

By the way, who else is neutral in this battle between the oBSG fans and nBSG fans? People who enjoyed both shows and not bash the other?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2006-12-14 10:36pm

Spyder wrote:The networking thing actually breaks continuity. It was established in the mini-series that the problem was Baltar's program that Six had rewritten. A virus would then spread into every system it was connected to and could then be activated remotely. Galactaca and the old vipers were unaffected because the virus never spread and has subsequently been purged from the systems.

Now it seems as though they get problems when hooking two or more computers together, regardless.

Actually no it doesn't. Remember the opening of the miniseries, when the Reporter is talking about how the Cylons could invade any computer system, and that was why Galactica was so "antique", with manual telephones, etc, etc. So that if the Cylons compromised a single system, like say, they compromised the autoland system by figuring out how to transmit a virus into the autolander (hey, there has to be some communication between a Viper and the Autoland system), that's all it would compromise, since each system is separate.

Now, in trek, if you broke into the replicator system, in 4 minutes, you'd be able to turn off the warp core containment fields, set all the self destruct charges to detonate in 2 minutes, etc etc.

Later, when they had to crosslink all of the computers in order to do the jump calculations in no time; they did it smart.

Instead of 1 firewall, they did five. And all the cross connections were big cables you yanked out; not a "CMD DISCONNECT LINK 1234.223" that you type into a console.

Even with all these precautions, the Cylons managed to slip a virus in that stayed in the computers across galactica, causing malfunctions and glitches in a later ep.

So what was the show's solution to this? Did they have a whiz kid create a magic anti virus program and upload it into the computers 5 minutes before the virus turns off something REALLY critical?

No.

They just reformatted the fucking harddrives and reinstalled everything from the pre-war backups.

Cylon Virus = OWNED.

That's what I like about nBSG, they do things the common sense way.

Cylon claiming he has a nuke on board one of the ships? Do we spend 45 minutes convincing him that the morality of what he's doing is wrong, causing him to reveal the location? Or do we invent an uber-handheld nuke detector?

Fuck no, we have starbuck waterboard and do various other things to the son of a bitch until he talks.

Massive fire on board ship that's spreading and threatening the ammunition magazines?

Do we use technobabble force fields to isolate the fire? Fuck no. We just vent the entire goddamn area to space; extinguishing the oxygen the fire needs, and massively lowering the temperatures in the compartments to below ignitition point (by suddenyl going from 14.7 PSI to like 0.1 PSI)

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2006-12-14 11:48pm

Knife wrote:Holy black and white fallacy! The point isn't 'I hate nBSG and love oBSG' or the opposite. The point is that both sides jump the other when any sort of comparison is made between the two and to say that you can't compare the two is moronic.

Giving Moore an get out of jail free card because the show is an 'reinterpertaion' is straight bullshit, just as much bullshit as the nostalgia effect people use to look back on oBSG and give it a pass.

Perhaps I composed my last post poorly, but I think we agree more than not. I can see that there are people from both sides who jump on the other, but I'm not one of them. I don't especially like oBSG now (I don't even remember most of it; it's been years since I've seen any episode in full) but I don't hate it.

Who's giving Moore a free pass? My only point there is, the idea that there is some plan or scheme to trash oBSG, to see the very existence of nBSG as some crafty way to piss all over the former is rather silly. Call the new show what you will, a re-imagining, a retelling, a reinterpretation, that's fine. But it doesn't follow that just because they are doing Battlestar over differently, it's somehow a slight against the original show.

Adrian McNair · Post by **Adrian McNair** » 2006-12-15 03:52am

Lord Poe wrote: I shouldn't be surprised. This is the guy that killed Kirk in the lamest way possible, after all.

And this is relevant to the topic at hand, how?

LOL!! Yeah, making Starbuck female, then retaining every male quality the old one had adds a "different element". Of course its not for the Apollo/Starbuck slash stories.

Are you going to actually going to discuss the merits of nBSG or are you going to continue using the copy and paste function to regurgitate the same half-baked strawman arguments?

But I don't expect you to listen, after all you are under the misconception that Starbuck is a lesbian, even though she is *gasp* heterosexual and has expressed moments of grief and vulnerability throughout the series.

Translation: "Making original characters is hard!"

Translation: Making fully-realised characters with flaws and virtues is difficult for Poe to accept.

And yes, Adrian, I am ignoring you.

You wouldn't happen to explain why you are doing so, would you? Nevertheless, I gladly accept your concession. There you have it, the typical oBSG apologist/fanboy refuses to face reality when confronted with succint and well-presented points.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-12-15 05:40am

Darth Wong wrote:NeoBSG fans actually remind me of hardcore B5 fans during that show's heyday. I liked B5, partially because it wasn't quite so "LOOK AT ME I'M GRITTY!!!!" as neoBSG, but the show had plenty of flaws and there was a time that anyone who disliked it was attacked for being a philistine who had no appreciation for its greatness (and don't give me bullshit about how SW fans do the same thing; the prequels have gotten slagged far worse than anything anyone has ever said about neoBSG or B5, and most SW fans don't react with anywhere near as much hostility).

I think part of it is the notion that shows like this are "relevant" and "important" rather than being mere entertainment.

Hey, sometimes the show feels like Battlestar Iraqtica (James Callis- the guy who plays Baltar, referred to being told this in a recent podcast by one of this friends). I personally- and I think the majority of fans on Sd.net, judging from the weekly commentary of the show- just think the show is cool, as opposed to beating off as to how "important" the show is. That's not to say it doesn't try and address contemporary issues (much as Trek did) but I think it does it well and it's entertaining.