Battlestar Galactica music video

[Stark]

Actually, I dislike that in nBSG. Firefly had shakycam in there, but you still saw what was going on: it was flavour, it didn't make the action incomphrehsible. nBSG doesn't seem to have that restraint: in Exodus (the last episodes I saw) there was shakycam in scenes with no movement and just dialogue for christs sake.

EDIT - For reference, the 'Heat' gunfight is 'naturalistic' to me, with lowkey gunfire noises, difficult shot angles, and general chaos.

[FSTargetDrone]

There's saying it sucks, then there's saying a remake sucks because it's not being original. Which is just fucking retarded.

A remake sucks when it shits on the original, yes.

Lord Poe, I really don't understand why you feel the new show "shits on" the original? What makes you say that? How does it do that, exactly? What is it about the new show that you feel somehow is a way to crap all over the original? Honestly, I am quite curious.

Actually, I dislike that in nBSG. Firefly had shakycam in there, but you still saw what was going on: it was flavour, it didn't make the action incomphrehsible. nBSG doesn't seem to have that restraint: in Exodus (the last episodes I saw) there was shakycam in scenes with no movement and just dialogue for christs sake.

I agree, I very much dislike the hand-held style. It's overused.

Edit:

It's not just nBSG, but Firefly as well - although Firefly much less so. There was a line in the commentary for the pilot episode about how they were getting all the equipment for this show and one of the pieces of equipment procured was special camera lenses that prevented lens flares, but Joss Whedon chucked a hissy fit because it wasn't 'naturalistic' or something.

Since when does naturalistic mean the adding in of defective footage?

It's all part of the "documentary feel" which we see with the hand-held business. Which, as I said above, is way overused. And I like nBSG.

[Lord Poe]

Lord Poe, I really don't understand why you feel the new show "shits on" the original? What makes you say that? How does it do that, exactly? What is it about the new show that you feel somehow is a way to crap all over the original? Honestly, I am quite curious.

Read this thread; its all here.

[Vympel]

So would I, but Moore's rhetoric makes it clear that 'naturalistic' is an outright rejection of Space Opera, or taking the opera out of space. And that's completely retarded.

Nothing - absolutely nothing - screams SPACE OPERA in bolded capital letters than fighters in space.

I disagree- I think Space Opera is a question of overall style, rather than any single element. I think nBSG is largely successful in what RDM was trying to do, with the exception of necessary "evils".

Of course- I hate shaky cam being used in the space shots. I want hero shots, dammit.

[Stark]

The space stuff is where it's least acceptable: at least in the Exodus 'blurry swinging tent discussion' you could imagine someone there filming it really badly with the digital steady turned off and no autofocus. However, in space... not so much. Particularly when they use BOTH blurry, unfocused, poorly-tracking shots AND nice fixed shots past the name on the side.

[Covenant]

Ok, here's a mental exercise for you:

RDM rapes Star Wars.

Would you watch this version of Star Wars?

I know I would! Why not? It may be incredibly bizarre, and totally different, but I really do enjoy seeing different takes on the same idea. I'd be pretty interested in seeing battles between ISDs armed with rotary cannons, missiles and flakkers. And those stormtroopers sound badass.

It has to do with the emotional connection to the show. I think it's dumb to justify people's rants by agreeing with them about their reasons for why a show is bad, but critical analysis--like about the camerawork or the utterly unrealistic elements in a show that strokes itself about 'realism' is worthy of making comment on. I like the difference of nBSG to most shows, and I'm most interested in seeing where it goes, how it ends, and what the next show in that similar vein is.

Space Opera, as it is, can be a great stylistic choice. Star Wars did a great job at it. But there's nothing wrong with doing something that's messier and more down-to-earth. The overcompensation factor of nBSG in their purposeful grit addition is a little obvious, but I for one am okay with obvious, so long as they keep going with it further and further. There's a good reason I enjoy Kung-Fu Hustle so much, and why I wish they'd actually turned that fake movie Blow'd Up into something real. But, really, the most realistic character interactions I see have to be some of the Stargate moments. Those seem like fairly realistic little conversations sometimes, especially where Jack was concerned. I think that show's a good balance between camp and realism.

What I really want is something more along the lines of Indiana Jones. Realistic most of the time, but with a few utterly hilarious bits in it. But that takes skill.

[Stofsk]

nBSG could lighten up a little.

[Covenant]

nBSG could lighten up a little.

Probably more than a little. I feel like they've dug themselves a hole at the moment, with so many people angry at each other, but I'd really like for at least one pair of people to enjoy each other's company enough to bring a little cheer to other people. People like Starbuck and Apollo have absolutely no perspective because nobody around them seems to do much better. The Chief, I think, has the most potential for that now. It used to be Gaeta, but that got ruined. Problem is, almost nobody is happy enough! Barring that, Adama or Rosalin could try to give people something good to think about. Eventually, the sadness and despair of being the last fragment of humanity needs to dull and people are going to look for a way to live a little.

I don't feel like nBSG needs humor, since I usually watch it with another, happier show, depending on what my TiVo's got queued up. But either it needs humor OR it needs to make some sort of effort to demonstrate that it doesn't take itself so seriously. It wants to be a drama, and that's perfectly reasonable, but at the moment the subject matter has drifted from the stuff I thought was so well done (like 33) to more standard Sci-Fi fodder. I liked the feeling of it being Das Boot in space. I dunno if I like so much the idea of All My Cylons and General Battlestar.

[Beowulf]

A remake sucks when it shits on the original, yes.

While I did not really wish to enter this miasma of stupid (mostly because I don't care one way or the other about oBSG), the thought occured to me: Do you think Starship Troopers sucked? One might say it completely ripped off the Heinlein classic, yet with the only similarities being the basic premise and most of the names -- much like the difference between the BSGs.

The movie did not have the same premise.

[ray245]

So is there any difference between nBSG and the highly popular 'lost' ?

[Stofsk]

I disagree- I think Space Opera is a question of overall style, rather than any single element. I think nBSG is largely successful in what RDM was trying to do, with the exception of necessary "evils".

Whether a single element or overall style makes or breaks space opera or not is a question of taste; I can't look at nBSG any other way than it being space opera. You're free to disagree if you like though, but I am also free to disagree with the notion that RDM is successful with his lofty goal.

[The Yosemite Bear]

actually wayne, to point out starwars is an adaptation of another movie. Where the swords were real katanas not light sabers, the blasters were black powder rifles, the stubborn princess could kick unholy kinds of ass, the droids were a pair of greedy peasants, and the closest thing to Han Solo was the Samurai-ko turned sex slave turned body guard for the princess.

or did you miss the part in the commentary section on the DVD where Lucas admits that starwars is adapted from Hidden Fortress.

[Lord Poe]

or did you miss the part in the commentary section on the DVD where Lucas admits that starwars is adapted from Hidden Fortress.

Didn't need the commentary to know that Lucas copied the basic premise from HF, but he's NEVER said Star Wars is a "re-imagined" version of HF. Nice try.

[Stark]

So is there any difference between nBSG and the highly popular 'lost' ?

nBSG is *less* preachy and pretentious than Lost. How's THAT boggle you?

[Uraniun235]

I would have thought 'naturalistic' would have been that middle ground.

So would I, but Moore's rhetoric makes it clear that 'naturalistic' is an outright rejection of Space Opera, or taking the opera out of space. And that's completely retarded.

Nothing - absolutely nothing - screams SPACE OPERA in bolded capital letters than fighters in space. They're completely fantastical, which goes against this 'naturalism' he harps on about. Get rid of the Vipers and just have missile duels between Galactica and the Basestars and then you can tell me you're going for 'grittiness'. Until then, I don't buy it. I can like the show but I don't have to like this 'reinvent the wheel'-style rhetoric.

I strongly suspect that the manifesto was less a "this is what I personally believe is tops" and more just part of a selling pitch; remember that he had to pitch his concept to executives who probably hold sci-fi in very low regard.

[The Yosemite Bear]

or did you miss the part in the commentary section on the DVD where Lucas admits that starwars is adapted from Hidden Fortress.

Didn't need the commentary to know that Lucas copied the basic premise from HF, but he's NEVER said Star Wars is a "re-imagined" version of HF. Nice try.

lets just point out I have lost count of how many times I've seen "casablanca" adapted to another setting (least favorite casablanca adaptation being the Pam Anderson Barb Wire movie). Note the word I keep using is adapted, when someone takes a property and makes changes to it, that's what they do. I have seen the seven samurai take place as westerns, cyberpunk sci-fi, gangsters, or even starwars based space opera (battle beyond the stars).

The difference between new and old battlestar is quite massive. It's an adaptation, the only things the same are the names, and the vipers. It's not the original, but it clearly is adapted from that.

[Spyder]

I suspect things would've been different for me if I had been around for when the original series began, but I'm simply too young to like oBSG.

Ok, here's a mental exercise for you:

George Lucas goes (even more) batshit insane and turns the Star Wars reins over to Ron Moore. Moore takes stock of Star Wars, decides many elements are too silly, and aren't real and gritty enough, and have FAR too few post-911 and Iraqi War references.

Out goes turbloasers - in comes bullets and missiles. Out goes lightsabers - in comes steel swords. Gotta keep it REAL...turbolasers and lightsabers are so scifi...

Han Solo is female, but retains all the qualities of the old male Han Solo - except she's mad and depressed about the Empire taking over the galaxy.

Moore eliminates all the "silly" stuff from Star Wars, like Chewbacca, droids, and Luke's father being Darth Vader. Stormtroopers look more like Sam Fisher from "Splinter Cell" now.

The camera work looks like someone punched the cameraman in the balls, even during the dialogue scenes.

Would you watch this version of Star Wars?

I'd be skeptical of the steel swords idea, lightsabres work with lasers but swords don't really work with bullets, if they were going to change lightsabres I'd suspect they'd just get cut altogether.

Also, I'm not sure why Han particularly needs to be depressed but if she is then hey, as long as it fits.

Apart from that, yeah I'd at least give it a shot.

Come to think of it, I have often thought about what Star Wars would be like if the Rebels would use geurilla tactics, set off a few thermal detonators around Coruscant and whatnot.

[Frank Hipper]

That hand-held camera work in the new series makes it unwatchable to me.

I hate that particular affectation with a purple passion, and no matter how good, bad, or indifferent the other qualities of the show are, I can't get over it.

[phongn]

I hate that particular affectation with a purple passion, and no matter how good, bad, or indifferent the other qualities of the show are, I can't get over it.

After the miniseries and some of the first S1 episodes it has become much better - perhaps give the later episodes a try to see if its more to your liking? The "shakycam" of the miniseries also drove me nuts.

[Stark]

I dunno - in Exodus the stuff planetside was pretty bad, with shakycam even in non-action scenes. Why cut from one person to the other when you can wobble the camera between them?

[Stofsk]

I don't like shakycam but I suppose I've gotten used to it now.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

I don't like shakycam but I suppose I've gotten used to it now.

I think it's okay; they could tone it down in some spots like Stark and Stofsk say. Imagine if it was Blair-Witch-on-a-cellphone shaky!

Oh, and the flamewar [earlier] in this thread absolutely blows worm-infested bloody monkey-diarrhea.

[MKSheppard]

We get the idea einy on the flamewar. Now shut up on that, instead of repeating it every other post of yours.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

nBSG could lighten up a little.

Puppet episode.

[MKSheppard]

Anyway, the reason why there's so much drama based around character interaction on BSG is because the writers took a clear look at their situation, and figured out the obvious:

They can't afford to have flaming space death every other episode.

They have one battlestar protecting the 40,000 survivors of humanity. That's it. Lose it, and humanity is fucked.

So they can't afford to get into knock down smack down fights with the cylons every other episode; since they can't easily repair heavy damage, etc.

Voyager's writers didn't get this....we're stuck 70 years from home, and we're going to be running low on resources........so lets jump into every two bit alien dispute and waste precious resources at every turn!