the one ring as a weapon?

[NeoGoomba]

As a forenote I'd like to say that I'm enjoying this debate although at times I forget what side I'm debating on... I think I just like debating in and of itself.

Same here

Afternote What if: Lets say that the One had not been found and Sauron resolved to use force of arms to conquer ME without the One. Now let's say that Saruman was defeated by the ents and huorns just like in the book, and the Captains of the West could not breakthe Morannon.

Do you believe Middle-earth would have been able to stop him after those events? Most of the Elves had left, there were few Ents, but the realm of men was uniting quickly... what would happen?[/quote]

No, Sauron would have owned Middle Earth. His forces at the Black Gate were ready to curb stomp the Lords of the West. All that stoped him was the Ring being destroyed. Men, without strong leaders like Aragorn and Imrahil, would have been quickly scattered, as Sauron would probably have nailed Minas Tirith right afterwards. Only in Lorien and Rivendell would Sauron be held off for a little while, but their strength had been so diminished over the years, plus Lorien was already fighting off assaults from Dol Guldur. There just wouldn't be enough good guys to face Sauron's immense war machine.

[Necro99]

The One could take the wearer to the wraith-world, show and control the minds and bodies of the other ring bearers and dominate others to your own will.

Hence "One ring to rule them all"

BUt i wonder WHERE did the elfs go?
So i can hide in a caravan...[/code]

[Uraniun235]

Ok, Middle Earth is in decline... why?

[Morning Star]

As a forenote I'd like to say that I'm enjoying this debate although at times I forget what side I'm debating on... I think I just like debating in and of itself.

Same here

Afternote What if: Lets say that the One had not been found and Sauron resolved to use force of arms to conquer ME without the One. Now let's say that Saruman was defeated by the ents and huorns just like in the book, and the Captains of the West could not breakthe Morannon.

Do you believe Middle-earth would have been able to stop him after those events? Most of the Elves had left, there were few Ents, but the realm of men was uniting quickly... what would happen?

No, Sauron would have owned Middle Earth. His forces at the Black Gate were ready to curb stomp the Lords of the West. All that stoped him was the Ring being destroyed. Men, without strong leaders like Aragorn and Imrahil, would have been quickly scattered, as Sauron would probably have nailed Minas Tirith right afterwards. Only in Lorien and Rivendell would Sauron be held off for a little while, but their strength had been so diminished over the years, plus Lorien was already fighting off assaults from Dol Guldur. There just wouldn't be enough good guys to face Sauron's immense war machine.[/quote]

I think Gondor would have been stomped on, but many man would've escaped to Eriador where Lindon, Imladris and ther last of the great Elves were. The Three would still maintain the Elven realms as the One had not been destroyed.

Lorien was withstanding the assaults and Erebor and the remnants of Dale were holding up the northern armies with aid arriving from the iron mountains. The Rohirrim would have been largley mobile and probably intact. The Ents would possibly have been willing to fight when Eriador and the west were attacked as some ents still farmed in that are, below the Shire.

Now I'm not saying Sauron would get his ass handed to him or anything, he'd probably overrun the south and east, but I think the mobilization of Men that took place at that time could have made it hard for Sauron to just storm the West. Plus the Elven strongholds in that area kicked ass, and the Dwarves were just beginning to realise that they were still strong. Just my opinion, though.

BUt i wonder WHERE did the elfs go?

Valinor, the Land of Gods on the Isle of Almaren, where no mortal could go.

Ok, Middle Earth is in decline... why?

Because the Elves are leaving, as their time is over. They are taking the magic of their realms with them and many lores will be lost forever. But on the upside, the Dominion of Men is beginning.

[Ted C]

Um, then you've obviously forgotten how it got from Gollum's island in the caves, swam through the water and began to climb up through the tunnels then? It had a will of its own.
[/b]

You have obviously forgotten that Gollum left his island occasionally to strangle a goblin for dinner when he got tired of fish. Because of the danger, he wore the Ring on such forays, and it slipped off during the last such trip he took before Bilbo's arrival.

That is how the Ring ended up in the tunnel where Bilbo found it. It did not swim across the underground lake by itself and then start rolling up hill under its own power.

Yes, the Ring has a will of its own. It does not, however, have any motive power of its own.

[Necro99]

Valinor, the Land of Gods on the Isle of Almaren, where no mortal could go.

Then i guess my plan of hiding in a boat is useless...





Err...

[Balrog]

What better way to introduce myself then through my l33t knowledge of LotR



Valinor was created by the Valar (i.e. Gods) after the Big Bad DudeTM Melkor trashed their pleasent island of Almaren. One could reach Valinor by boat, until King Ar-Pharazôn of the mighty island nation of Númenor was tricked by Sauron into trying to sail there with the greatest fleet in history. This pissed the Valar off greatly, so they sent not only the fleet but the whole nation sinking to the bottom of the sea. After that, Valinor was removed from the "circles of the world" and only the Elves could reach Valinor by taking the "straight road."

[Shadow WarChief]

Valinor, the Land of Gods on the Isle of Almaren, where no mortal could go.

Then i guess my plan of hiding in a boat is useless...





Err...

Not entirely useless. Assuming that no elf found you stowing away on the boat, you could set foot on the Undying lands...Only to have Manwë, valar of wind, kick you across the ocean into an orc den for going over there....

[Morning Star]

What better way to introduce myself then through my l33t knowledge of LotR

<snip>

Valinor was created by the Valar (i.e. Gods) after the Big Bad DudeTM Melkor trashed their pleasent island of Almaren. One could reach Valinor by boat, until King Ar-Pharazôn of the mighty island nation of Númenor was tricked by Sauron into trying to sail there with the greatest fleet in history. This pissed the Valar off greatly, so they sent not only the fleet but the whole nation sinking to the bottom of the sea. After that, Valinor was removed from the "circles of the world" and only the Elves could reach Valinor by taking the "straight road."

And? Myself, and I assume NeoGoomba who I've debated most with already know that. What's your opinion on the matter?

[Ted C]

I'm still unclear as to what the rings do.

The primary purpose of Sauron's ring was to enable him to dominate the wearers of all the other rings. Anything done using any of the other rings could be turned to his purposes.

There are various nebulous references to the rings being used to "build" things. For instance, Sauron built the fortress of Barad-Dur using his ring; as a result, the fortress could not be completely destroyed as long as the ring existed (on the other hand, it immediately collapsed when the Ring was destroyed).

Similarly, Elrond and Galadriel used their rings in the founding of Rivendell and Lorien. Elrond was able to cause the river to suddenly flood and sweep away the Black Riders because of his ring. Galadriel was able to affect the flow if time in Lorien, and the trees there grew taller and healthier than any other place because of her.

There is little information about the capabilities of the seven Dwarf rings. Supposedly they helped the dwarves find great treasures; possibly their wearers we able to detect valuable minerals from great distances, so they were able to direct their mining efforts more efficiently. They were also used to "build" dwarf cities like those in Moria and the Lonely Mountain; they may have protected such underground cities from cave-ins and other disasters much as Sauron's ring protected Barad-Dur.

Even less is known about the powers of the Nine Rings of Men. They were given to kings, and supposedly gave them special benefits as rulers. They may have somehow made their wearers more charismatic, so that they inspired great loyalty from their subjects. Presumably cities and fortress built "under the power" of these rings would be more durable than similar structures lacking magical enhancement. In any event, the wearers of these rings quickly fell under the power of Sauron when he put on his Ring, and whatever they had "built" using the rings quickly turned to evil. The wearers themselves became Saurons Ringwraiths; they cause unnatural terror, they can break swords with their voices (as they broke Frodo's at the ford into Rivendell), and their very presence can be poisonous.