Battlestar Galactica music video

[Stark]

Doesn't excuse that drama being poor or ridden with cliches. I agree that nothing would be worse than constant battles with the Cylons that they 'somehow' escape.

[Vympel]

Anyway, the reason why there's so much drama based around character interaction on BSG is because the writers took a clear look at their situation, and figured out the obvious:

They can't afford to have flaming space death every other episode.

They have one battlestar protecting the 40,000 survivors of humanity. That's it. Lose it, and humanity is fucked.

So they can't afford to get into knock down smack down fights with the cylons every other episode; since they can't easily repair heavy damage, etc.

Voyager's writers didn't get this....we're stuck 70 years from home, and we're going to be running low on resources........so lets jump into every two bit alien dispute and waste precious resources at every turn!

Not to mention damage- Galactica has never lost the damage it took from the nuke in the Miniseries. It's with it forever. It was the first section to fail in "The Passage". Since the battle in Exodus Part II, Galactica is covered in scars and pockmarks. She used to look pristine, even with the nuke damage- now she looks totally fucked.

[Lord Poe]

Actually, from the pictures and video I've seen, I like the design of the Pegasus. It's much better than that piece of shit, "ribbed for her pleasure" Galactica.

[Stark]

Not to mention damage- Galactica has never lost the damage it took from the nuke in the Miniseries. It's with it forever. It was the first section to fail in "The Passage". Since the battle in Exodus Part II, Galactica is covered in scars and pockmarks. She used to look pristine, even with the nuke damage- now she looks totally fucked.

If only I could work out why they textured orange circles over the intact main guns.

[Darth Wong]

Anyway, the reason why there's so much drama based around character interaction on BSG is because the writers took a clear look at their situation, and figured out the obvious:

They can't afford to have flaming space death every other episode.

They have one battlestar protecting the 40,000 survivors of humanity. That's it. Lose it, and humanity is fucked.

So they can't afford to get into knock down smack down fights with the cylons every other episode; since they can't easily repair heavy damage, etc.

Voyager's writers didn't get this....we're stuck 70 years from home, and we're going to be running low on resources........so lets jump into every two bit alien dispute and waste precious resources at every turn!

That's a very good argument, Shep. That's why the new Galactica would never do something utterly retarded like going back and trying to rescue people that they left behind on Caprica. Right? I mean, even the hackneyed writing of the original series never had them doing something so brain-damaged.

[Spyder]

You mean New Caprica? The Galactica itself never actually went back to Caprica.

[Covenant]

You mean New Caprica? The Galactica itself never actually went back to Caprica.

I think the people that Starbuck begged him to go pick up are what Wong is speaking of. Anders and crew.

[Darth Wong]

You mean New Caprica? The Galactica itself never actually went back to Caprica.

The ship didn't, but parts of the crew did. I happened to catch that episode on SpaceTV and it only reaffirmed my initial reaction that this was not a show I wanted to watch.

[Spyder]

You mean New Caprica? The Galactica itself never actually went back to Caprica.

The ship didn't, but parts of the crew did. I happened to catch that episode on SpaceTV and it only reaffirmed my initial reaction that this was not a show I wanted to watch.

I'm certainly not going to attempt to convince you that you should start watching the show, I'd find it pretty rude if someone was trying to convince me that I should start watching pro wrestling, just to stretch for an analogue.

What I would like to point out though is that what would probably be a fairer criticism might be that it was perhaps a poor tactical decision to use that many Raptors on one mission. We see roughly 15, battlestar wiki says 20 and quotes that figure as being all of them.

Now, I personally don't think that the crew involved in this mission would have put the galactica itself in any significant risk. Using the Battlestar Wiki figures, we're looking at 40 marines, 40 Raptor pilots/copilots, Starbuck and a cylon prisoner. While this is a significant number of trained personell, I wouldn't say Galactica and by proxy the rest of humanity would be completely fucked without them, assuming the mission was a complete disaster instead of the 20% losses their simulations were projecting.

It's a far cry from TNG through Enterprise where the bridge crew would dissappear off on away missions.

Another consideration are the mission goals, they didn't have a figure for the number of people they were rescuing, it's likely they were banking on a much higher number of people to rescue, infact I think I recall a line of dialogue to the line of "this is it?". In the end, they did achieve a net gain.

[Vympel]

If only I could work out why they textured orange circles over the intact main guns.

They're just lights. When I rewatched Season 1, I noticed the same kind of lights on the guns that are in the "trench" of the head. It's the only reasonable explanation I can think of

[Darth Wong]

You mean New Caprica? The Galactica itself never actually went back to Caprica.

The ship didn't, but parts of the crew did. I happened to catch that episode on SpaceTV and it only reaffirmed my initial reaction that this was not a show I wanted to watch.

I'm certainly not going to attempt to convince you that you should start watching the show, I'd find it pretty rude if someone was trying to convince me that I should start watching pro wrestling, just to stretch for an analogue.

What I would like to point out though is that what would probably be a fairer criticism might be that it was perhaps a poor tactical decision to use that many Raptors on one mission. We see roughly 15, battlestar wiki says 20 and quotes that figure as being all of them.

Now, I personally don't think that the crew involved in this mission would have put the galactica itself in any significant risk. Using the Battlestar Wiki figures, we're looking at 40 marines, 40 Raptor pilots/copilots, Starbuck and a cylon prisoner. While this is a significant number of trained personell, I wouldn't say Galactica and by proxy the rest of humanity would be completely fucked without them, assuming the mission was a complete disaster instead of the 20% losses their simulations were projecting.

They were also assuming that their scheme for avoiding backtracking would be effective; if they were wrong ...

It's a far cry from TNG through Enterprise where the bridge crew would dissappear off on away missions.

Then again, the survival of the entire human race didn't depend on not being found.

Another consideration are the mission goals, they didn't have a figure for the number of people they were rescuing, it's likely they were banking on a much higher number of people to rescue, infact I think I recall a line of dialogue to the line of "this is it?". In the end, they did achieve a net gain.

In the end, they took an unacceptably stupid risk that was as idiotic as anything you can point to in the original series. The original series may have had bad writing, but at least it seemed to recognize on some level that it was camp. My tolerance for stupid plot takes a nosedive when a show takes itself as seriously as neoBSG does.

You'd think that they'd be doing everything in their power to get as far away from their vastly superior enemy as possible, but I never get that impression from the show. Instead, there's political intrigue and bizarre hokey religious bullshit and things like this "rescue mission" which could only have been dreamt up by a retarded hamster on crack. As I said, if the show didn't take itself so seriously I might be more inclined to overlook that stuff, but it does.

[Crown]

I'm not interested in whether you enjoy nBSG or oBSG or whether one is better or not. I'm more interested in a general tech query that your post presented.

They were also assuming that their scheme for avoiding backtracking would be effective; if they were wrong ...

As far as I know there is no backtracking tech/method in nBSG like say Trek or Wars. Once a ship has jumped it's gone.

Then again, the survival of the entire human race didn't depend on not being found.

See above.

In the end, they took an unacceptably stupid risk that was as idiotic as anything you can point to in the original series.

I disagree with this, although having not seen more than 5 mins of the original series I can't possibly disprove it. I will say though that the risk was far less than you seem to be implying, although the possible 'rewards' for them going there was no where near acceptable to take that risk. It was an act of plot, a purly contrived one at that.

The original series may have had bad writing, but at least it seemed to recognize on some level that it was camp. My tolerance for stupid plot takes a nosedive when a show takes itself as seriously as neoBSG does.

I'm trying hard not to get into the 'make Mike like nBSG' mind set, but didn't B5 suffer from even worse examples of such behavior?

You'd think that they'd be doing everything in their power to get as far away from their vastly superior enemy as possible, but I never get that impression from the show. Instead, there's political intrigue and bizarre hokey religious bullshit and things like this "rescue mission" which could only have been dreamt up by a retarded hamster on crack. As I said, if the show didn't take itself so seriously I might be more inclined to overlook that stuff, but it does.

I'm with you on this rescue mission (but for different reasons; it was a pure act of writer fiat, it came out of nowhere, and it went no where), I don't mind the hokey religious stuff, but come on, political intrigue has been a part of human nature since the first cave man picked up a rock and brained the alpha male to claim his spoils. It's not exactly something we'll ever do away with.

[Vympel]

You'd think that they'd be doing everything in their power to get as far away from their vastly superior enemy as possible, but I never get that impression from the show. Instead, there's political intrigue and bizarre hokey religious bullshit and things like this "rescue mission" which could only have been dreamt up by a retarded hamster on crack. As I said, if the show didn't take itself so seriously I might be more inclined to overlook that stuff, but it does.

The impression that they're running from the enemy is stronger over a whole season rather than any particular episode- seasons in Galactica take place over a matter of a few months, rather than the typical season = year unwritten rule of other shows (sci-fi or not), so events are a lot closer together, at least it seems so to me.

The political intrigue would be pretty hard to do without considering you have the whole (known) human race in microcosm in this fleet and they need political leaders (military vs political leadership was a theme of Season 1, after that it was pretty much resolved)- but as for the religious bullshit- it is a massive plot-point of Season 1 that Roslin wants to follow all these religious markers to find the way to Earth (which is, after all, the point of the show) and she suborns mutiny on Galactica to do it (convincing Starbuck to take a captured Raider back to Caprica to retrieve some hokey artificact). Adama on the other hand (and even her own assistant) calls her basically a fanatical religious whackjob and institutes martial law when he discovers it.

The difference however is that in this case the religious bullshit isn't bullshit- everything we've seen on the show is that the sacred texts are right and the scrolls are predicting events and the fleet is doing things that the scrolls say will happen. Adama, presented with evidence that there might be something to this, changes his mind and reconciles with Roslin. He's still not a religious man though, but the evidence is pretty obvious that there is something to it.

Also, the religious/ Kobol/ map to Earth angle was a big part of the season 1 finale and start of season 2, but they hadn't dealt with it again since right now (season 3 current episode- middle of the season), so by episode, it's not an ever-present part of it all considered.

[Stark]

They're just lights. When I rewatched Season 1, I noticed the same kind of lights on the guns that are in the "trench" of the head. It's the only reasonable explanation I can think of

Really? So, in deadly combat and with intact main guns, they don't use them because someone turned the orange lights on? We can't even say they were supposed to be disabled, since 'disabled' is going to mean 'blown to shit' and that'd basically cripple BSG forever.

[Vympel]

Really? So, in deadly combat and with intact main guns, they don't use them because someone turned the orange lights on?

I don't think there's a connection between the two.

We can't even say they were supposed to be disabled, since 'disabled' is going to mean 'blown to shit' and that'd basically cripple BSG forever.

Not necessarily- they may have simply lost power or something. Galactica had been pounded for some time before we saw that shot of her under fire, we don't know what damage she took. Helo asked the main battery to report their status the moment they jumped back up to orbit, so there was the potential for some sort of damage even in the drop.

[Lord Poe]

Some GINO fans (heh!) keep posting, "Well, Richard Hatch finally gave in, why can't you?" But that's not true at all. Hatch accepted that this is where BSG went, but he STILL believes it was the wrong way to go. In fact, he still holds out hope for a BSG movie involving the original characters.

2004 Richard Hatch Interview

As you grow more involved with the SciFi Channel series, and as you embrace your new castmates and your new producers, are you starting to feel more like this new show could be the legitimate heir to Battlestar Galactica?

Unlike Star Trek, the original Battlestar remains unresolved. The original story, the original characters, the original backstory… what made the original Battlestar successful… is a whole different thing [than the Ronald D. Moore series]. Nothing will ever replace the original show. It had an incredible chemistry and originality, and it would be lovely to see that show either made into a movie or some kind of reunion special where you could catch up with those characters and resolve and tie up a lot of loose ends that were left by the cancellation of the original series. I think the fans, in a sense, are still unrequited because that story has never had a chance at resolution. The sad part is that fans have been asking for 25 years for a resolution to the original. And, you know, if someone wanted to reimagine… that’s fine. If somebody wanted to do the Pegasus story, that’s fine. I just think that first they should have done some kind of a four-hour miniseries, you know, bringing the original show back, bringing it up to date, resolving a lot of things… and giving closure. I think then they could have moved off into a spinoff, or a reimagination, or anything else they wanted to do... and there would have been a lot more acceptance. As it stands now, fans, including myself, are frustrated. You feel like nobody listened to you. It was as if they wanted to do their own thing and they didn’t care what we thought, or what we felt.

[Bonnie Hammer] is not a science fiction person. She likes a little horror, but she really doesn’t like space shows or science fiction. She probably thinks that makes her objective. But, honestly, I think she probably said, “Reimagine the show, and change it as much as humanly possible.” Because she didn’t particularly like it. So, her thought was, change it as much as possible. She wasn’t seeing it through the fan's eyes, and she wasn’t out to serve the fans. She was probably out to get an audience of 12-to-24 years olds, though this show doesn’t really serve the 12-to-24 year old demographic. It’s really the traditional 18-to-49 year old audience. Bonnie Hammer may be a very talented executive, but I don’t think she necessarily understands the SciFi genre or the SciFi audience.

I just think decisions were made for all the wrong reasons on Battlestar, and I think it’s sad that they didn’t continue the show first, because had they done that, the fans would have been more than supportive of any spinoff or new version of Battlestar they might have made.

I hope to God, and one day soon, because the longer we wait, the worse it is, to either do a movie or a miniseries of the original.

[Bug-Eyed Earl]

SNIP.

[/quote]

So you go to Cylon.org? Home of TwoBrained Cylon, who routinely accuses the show of being Anti-American (which really means anti-bush)? I remember one time a british member said that as someone who hates the Bush administration, he cant see it, and that the episode (where Starbuck interrogates Leoben) seemed to be more pro-torture. His response. "I get so tired of foreigners who can't mind their own damned business about other countries."

And he is admired by the community. Great bunch of folks to associate yourself with, Wayne. they make me glad that nBSG exists- it is definitely irrational, but my coolness towards the old crappy show grows into an even more intense hatred every time I read some of their posts.

[Lord Poe]

snip in return

Don't be such a stupid cunt. I found a Richard Hatch interview after a Google search. That's hardly "associating" with anybody.

Nice how you completely ignored what I DID post.

[Spyder]

I wouldn't say Galactica and by proxy the rest of humanity would be completely fucked without them, assuming the mission was a complete disaster instead of the 20% losses their simulations were projecting.

They were also assuming that their scheme for avoiding backtracking would be effective; if they were wrong ...

I don't think that would have been too likely. The cylons have demonstrated very little ability to track ships after they jumped once and they were nine long jumps away. They did manage to slip a cylon aboard a raptor but even that didn't make much difference without the cylon ressurection ship. The Cylon claimed he was there to offer a truce, which may or may not have been true, more then likely a ploy to try and get the Galactica closer to the colonies due to the destruction of the ressurection ship just after the mid season. After that persuing the colonials was going to cost cylon lives, something which they weren't quite prepared for.

It's a far cry from TNG through Enterprise where the bridge crew would dissappear off on away missions.

Then again, the survival of the entire human race didn't depend on not being found.

That is true, mind you though if that behavior is standard across Star Fleet I could imagine one or two situations where the survival of humanity could come into question.

Another consideration are the mission goals, they didn't have a figure for the number of people they were rescuing, it's likely they were banking on a much higher number of people to rescue, infact I think I recall a line of dialogue to the line of "this is it?". In the end, they did achieve a net gain.

In the end, they took an unacceptably stupid risk that was as idiotic as anything you can point to in the original series. The original series may have had bad writing, but at least it seemed to recognize on some level that it was camp. My tolerance for stupid plot takes a nosedive when a show takes itself as seriously as neoBSG does.

You'd think that they'd be doing everything in their power to get as far away from their vastly superior enemy as possible, but I never get that impression from the show. Instead, there's political intrigue and bizarre hokey religious bullshit and things like this "rescue mission" which could only have been dreamt up by a retarded hamster on crack. As I said, if the show didn't take itself so seriously I might be more inclined to overlook that stuff, but it does.

I don't personally feel that, for reasons stated above, that the particular mission was that big of a risk to the survival of humanity.

No one has to like a show that takes itself seriously, as you and a lot of others would say too seriously, that's fair enough. On the other hand there are people that probably like something a little more serious, I consider that also fair enough, just like people enjoy the camp of the original, they're entitled too and I for one am not interested in taking that away from them.

Some GINO fans (heh!) keep posting, "Well, Richard Hatch finally gave in, why can't you?" But that's not true at all. Hatch accepted that this is where BSG went, but he STILL believes it was the wrong way to go. In fact, he still holds out hope for a BSG movie involving the original characters.

Good on him. I hope he doesn't find his work on nBSG too stressful though, I really like his character, so do a lot of nBSG fans.

You see "GINO" get thrown about quite a lot, are there actually any nBSG fans that would be offended by the phrase "Galactica In Name Only"? Apart from the name and a few other elements, the two series' are actually quite different. I'm not sure if anyone's actually trying to argue that they're same.

[Stofsk]

You see "GINO" get thrown about quite a lot, are there actually any nBSG fans that would be offended by the phrase "Galactica In Name Only"?

Since I'm an adult, I don't actually give a shit.

[Darth Wong]

I'm not interested in whether you enjoy nBSG or oBSG or whether one is better or not. I'm more interested in a general tech query that your post presented.

They were also assuming that their scheme for avoiding backtracking would be effective; if they were wrong ...

As far as I know there is no backtracking tech/method in nBSG like say Trek or Wars. Once a ship has jumped it's gone.

Oh for fuck's sake, there's more than one way to skin a cat. All they have to do is capture and then torture some of the people who went on the mission. If they break, then they cough up the info on how they plan to rendezvous with Galactica, and it's game over.

[Bug-Eyed Earl]

snip in return

Don't be such a stupid cunt. I found a Richard Hatch interview after a Google search. That's hardly "associating" with anybody.

Nice how you completely ignored what I DID post.

It was just a knee-jerk reaction to seeing that url. Those people really piss me off. I wasn't interested in the Hatch interview or the reasoning behind its posting.

[ray245]

And that's the post which explained pretty much why oBSG fans are not happy. Furthermore, oBSG storyline has never been completed, which piss the fans even more.

By the way, is there any forum in which both fans would not flame each other for liking the other version, or bashing the other series?

[Vympel]

Oh for fuck's sake, there's more than one way to skin a cat. All they have to do is capture and then torture some of the people who went on the mission. If they break, then they cough up the info on how they plan to rendezvous with Galactica, and it's game over.

I thought the rescue mission was a waste of resources on several fronts- namely that the risk of losing Raptors, skilled pilots, skilled ECOs, Marines (which were in short supply on Galactica to begin with, though the arrival of Pegasus probably helped fix that) their Cylon prisoner, and the jump system of the captured Heavy Raider wasn't justified by the benefits- i.e. a few more survivors.

Especially survivors who are just a bunch of amateur guerillas. "Hey, we lost skilled military crew and invaluable support craft which we can't build more of, but damned if we didn't get some humans back!"

That said, they probably came to the conclusion that the risk to the Fleet from the mission was small (whether from capture or whatever), and there's good reason to believe they were right- normally, when a Basestar or Cylon Raider appears on DRADIS, the fleet jumps away to emergency coordinates in a matter of seconds, covered by the Viper CAP, Galactica makes sure they all get away, recovers its Vipers, jumps, and they're somewhat safe- they did it ~240 times (every 33 minutes for hours on end) in "33". The risk to the fleet has always been where the Fleet is forced into a confrontation by parking themselves somewhere important (ie. natural resources that the Fleet might go to- or Kobol).

Also figuring into the risk was the destruction of the Cylon Resurrection Ship earlier in the Season, which resulted in the Cylons ceasing reckless head on attacks and resorting to ambushes as they were finally afraid of dying.

[Crown]

I'm not interested in whether you enjoy nBSG or oBSG or whether one is better or not. I'm more interested in a general tech query that your post presented.

They were also assuming that their scheme for avoiding backtracking would be effective; if they were wrong ...

As far as I know there is no backtracking tech/method in nBSG like say Trek or Wars. Once a ship has jumped it's gone.

Oh for fuck's sake, there's more than one way to skin a cat. All they have to do is capture and then torture some of the people who went on the mission. If they break, then they cough up the info on how they plan to rendezvous with Galactica, and it's game over.

Why? Galactica has been jumped by the Cylons many times and has gotten away, and now it's Galactica and Pegasus. The only situation in which your concerns would be applicable is if the rendezvous was set up to occur in the middle of the entire fleet with Galactica and Pegasus around the edges. I certainly don't remember as that being the case.

God forbid that they actually have two braincells and choose a rendezvous away from the main fleet in such a manner where the identity of the those returning can be ascertained to some measure of accuracy prior to Galactica showing up, the risk would be non-existant.

I say again; the risk is hardly as great as you imagine, the really stupid thing about this scenario was that the reward wasn't worth the risk of losing the Raptors and the pilots.